Scott Cross fired at UTA

MeanGreenTexan · March 27, 2018

3 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Year before last.....UTA beat Ohio State and Memphis on the road. Routed us in Arlington. Went two rounds in the CIT and finished with 24 wins.

Last year...UTA beat Texas on the road. Routed us in Denton. Won the Belt regular season Championship, and went 3 rounds deep in the NIT and finished with 27 wins.

This year they beat Oklahoma and BYU on the road, lost to Alabama by one and Creighton by 9 on the road. Beat us by 4 in Arlington and lost in the post season conference championship in a 21 win season.

I'd love to see the day where we're beating the likes of Texas, Ohio State and Memphis on the road.

Rick

Look no further than the Benford Era when we beat A&M on the road!! Your wish has already been granted!

MeanMag · March 27, 2018

10 hours ago, All About UNT said:

Sorry I don't agree with this assessment. Outside of his playing a stent for Tyler Junior College he has known nothing but UTA. I wouldn't be surprised to see him coach an Arlington area high school team especially with our circumstances of his entire staff being let go.

I can't tell if you are joking...

I hope you are.

TheTastyGreek · March 27, 2018

24 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Year before last.....UTA beat Ohio State and Memphis on the road. Routed us in Arlington. Went two rounds in the CIT and finished with 24 wins.

Last year...UTA beat Texas on the road. Routed us in Denton. Won the Belt regular season Championship, and went 3 rounds deep in the NIT and finished with 27 wins.

This year they beat Oklahoma and BYU on the road, lost to Alabama by one and Creighton by 9 on the road. Beat us by 4 in Arlington and lost in the post season conference championship in a 21 win season.

I'd love to see the day where we're beating the likes of Texas, Ohio State and Memphis on the road.

Rick

They also lost to UL-Monroe 4 times in the last 3 years, and haven't make the NCAA tournament in a decade. Couldn't even make it out of the SBC Tournament Semis two out of those last three years.

Don't get me wrong, I think Cross is a very good coach, and this is maybe the stupidest coach firing in my recent memory.

Just an example of how one team's mediocre coach can be damn near indistinguishable from a neighbor's great one that was STUPIDly fired.

On a very related note... Danny Kaspar just finished his 5th season at Texas State. Exactly 14 games under .500 overall, only one winning season. Now, I know that a GOOD coach would never post a record like that, or need a 6th year to turn around a Sun Belt school... But, here we are.

Not sure what to do with this reality we find ourselves in.

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

1 hour ago, TheTastyGreek said:

They also lost to UL-Monroe 4 times in the last 3 years, and haven't make the NCAA tournament in a decade. Couldn't even make it out of the SBC Tournament Semis two out of those last three years.

Don't get me wrong, I think Cross is a very good coach, and this is maybe the stupidest coach firing in my recent memory.

Just an example of how one team's mediocre coach can be damn near indistinguishable from a neighbor's great one that was STUPIDly fired.

On a very related note... Danny Kaspar just finished his 5th season at Texas State. Exactly 14 games under .500 overall, only one winning season. Now, I know that a GOOD coach would never post a record like that, or need a 6th year to turn around a Sun Belt school... But, here we are.

Not sure what to do with this reality we find ourselves in.

I guess I don't see the comparison of Cross and JJ's situations because we didn't fire JJ, although I would have been fine with it after watching UTA beat us by 33. I might have thought differently the next morning after cooling off...but UTA owned our asses then and have ever since and that's apparently not good enough?

Rick

Edited March 27, 2018 by FirefightnRick

CMJ · March 27, 2018

I think JJ was 2-3 against UTA (Tasty will let me know if I am wrong). While not great, I wouldn't say they owned our asses. It was basically a back and forth series when he left.

Edited March 27, 2018 by CMJ

golfingomez · March 27, 2018

Wow. Good luck to Cross, i hope he finds a new gig soon.

and extra luck to UTA's AD in trying to find a replacement.

Harry · March 27, 2018

9 minutes ago, Prettylittleeagle said:

It's not like the UT system schools are broke.

I disagree. These UT System schools are placed on a very strict budget and you have to follow their demands, ie orange in the uniforms, enrollment requirements, etc. etc.

My sources have indicated that UTSA's athletics budget is at the bottom of C-USA and UTEP is not far behind.

Being tied to the UT system certainly has it's advantages but I do not think budget is one of those. UT puts the bulk of their ample resources into the flagship.

For all of the boneheaded decisions our administration has made over the years, the one thing I am grateful for is the fact we have maintained our autonomy. Can you imagine if we were bought out by UT or A&M and had to incorporate burnt orange into our green? Believe it or not, we had an AD who was Texas who tried to do just that (Craig Helwig). This was the logo he tried to sell everyone on:

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

28 minutes ago, CMJ said:

I think JJ was 2-3 against UTA (Tasty will let me know if I am wrong). While not great, I wouldn't say they owned our asses. It was basically a back and forth series when he left.

JJ went 2-4 vs UTA and the last was a royal beating in Arlington by 33.

We've gone 0-4 against them ever since, and that's only because Benford dodged them for two years.

So yeah....since 2007 we're 2-8 against them, meaning, they have owned our asses.

Rick

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

12 minutes ago, Harry said:

I disagree. These UT System schools are placed on a very strict budget and you have to follow their demands, ie orange in the uniforms, enrollment requirements, etc. etc.

My sources have indicated that UTSA's athletics budget is at the bottom of C-USA and UTEP is not far behind.

Being tied to the UT system certainly has it's advantages but I do not think budget is one of those. UT puts the bulk of their ample resources into the flagship.

For all of the boneheaded decisions our administration has made over the years, the one thing I am grateful for is the fact we have maintained our autonomy. Can you imagine if we were bought out by UT or A&M and had to incorporate burnt orange into our green? Believe it or not, we had an AD who was Texas who tried to do just that (Craig Helwig). This was the logo he tried to sell everyone on:

I'm now blindedededed for life.

Why you gotta go and bring up old scars like that?

Rick

untjim1995 · March 27, 2018

2 hours ago, TheTastyGreek said:

Bunch of low-expectation-having apologists around here.

#WhyNotUTArlington?

#It'sAllWhateverColorUTAisAndItsAllGood

I blame this on the UTA 17...

MeanGreenTexan · March 27, 2018

4 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I blame this on the UTA 17...

Not fair to put this firing on their entire fan base.

emmitt01 · March 27, 2018

2 hours ago, TheTastyGreek said:

Bunch of low-expectation-having apologists around here.

#WhyNotUTArlington?

#It'sAllWhateverColorUTAisAndItsAllGood

Time for a banner?

Question, no answer.

Green Lantern · March 27, 2018

55 minutes ago, Harry said:

Don’t you do this to me!!!! Next you’ll be breaking out clip art Eagle. Shame....shame....shame.

CMJ · March 27, 2018

If the star is all in green (or white against an all green background), I actually kinda liked it. The problem was it was rarely done that way. I do have an old green flag with that design in all white though and it's fine.

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

1 hour ago, Prettylittleeagle said:

..... 1 tournament appearance....

.....with a team that was recruited to and had to play in this toilet.

IMG_5246.PNG.e8df2ccd759c2567bdd438739dc90880.PNG

IMG_5248.PNG.c4dbea5edf96e850a6f5ce499ef2dc51.PNG

IMG_5247.PNG.2880b89216b44f192c7ee33a2abd72be.PNG

I mean.......ffffffft!!!.....anyone could have done that.

Rick

TheTastyGreek · March 27, 2018

2 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I guess I don't see the comparison of Cross and JJ's situations because we didn't fire JJ, although I would have been fine with it after watching UTA beat us by 33.

The comparison is, you (rightly) think that Cross was a very good bordering on great coach who deserves a hell of a lot more respect and appreciation for what he did at UTA than this firing demonstrates. Meanwhile, you often seem to give Todd Freaking Dodge more credit for his accomplishments here than you do Johnny Jones.

When you live every game with a program, you remember every frustrating loss or bad performance. Especially when you're looking for them. Like that awful loss on the stage at UTA (I was there, too!) or the two last second/last minute heartbreakers that kept us out of the NCAA Tournament in 2011 and 2012.

When you follow from a distance, you remember the Memphis and Ohio State wins... But you don't notice when that guy takes his senior-heavy preseason conference favorite squad and loses by 25 to a sub .500 (both then and at the end of the year) Coastal Carolina team. Or when he loses by 20-25 or more to directional Louisianas, Arkansas Jrs., Georgia States, etc. You don't bias yourself to think he can't coach defense or execute a game plan, because you weren't watching when he gave up 104 points and lost by 23 to a winless Montana State team that finished the year 7-23.

Your memory tells you that our guy "could never figure out" a team and a coach that he beat 7 out of 10 times and never lost to outside of Denver, but you don't have any memories of the time that Cross's team only managed 35 freaking points in Arlington against Joe Scott and that Denver version of the Princeton scheme.

I don't want this to seem personal, because I feel like the only time this point of frustration actually did get a little heated and personal, you were actually super cool about sending me a nice message and making sure we wound up in a friendly place again. And, honestly, you're far from the most unreasonable and inconsistent person on the JJ vs. others evaluation.

The comparison comes from seeing you and @untbowler (justifiably) look at this with bafflement and mockery in this thread, calling it a stupid decision. But when we had a coach with a nearly identical track record over a nearly identical period of time, the stuff you guys were saying at the same point in JJ's tenure was WILDLY different than your take on Scott Cross. And when you look at what was said this time last year when people were (foolishly, in my opinion) bringing up the hypothetical of re-hiring JJ here... A depressing number of people, including Bowler (but not you, I don't think... I don't have the stomach to look at old threads from the end of Benford days) talked about JJ's successes here like they were UTA's AD giving Scott Cross his termination papers.

It sucks that the track record of a guy who did a lot of great things for us and hasn't been here in 6 years has to constantly get re-litigated. But, to me, it sucks worse when our own fan base mis-remembers or misrepresents what we had. So when that stuff keeps happening (like it did just a week ago), I think it merits pointing out how nearly identical the track record of Cross wound up relative to Jones, especially when a not-insignificant number of our fans here claimed one to be far superior, both 6 years ago and as recently as last year up to today.

Anyway... I don't know and probably never will understand why some of our fans have to minimize our accomplishments and diminish the people that led us to them. And I remember, distinctly, how much you used to appreciate the guy (Basketball Jones, and a 30+ minute phone call where we talked through the rumors of SMU firing Doherty and hiring JJ away pre-2011). And it baffles me why in the years since then, you seem to only remember (or, at least, bring up) the most terrible moments and biggest disappointments of his career here.

Scott Cross was a damn good coach for UTA, and he did a lot of special things there. It's a shame and an outrage that their administration apparently didn't appreciate him and his achievements. But, if you're comparing Scott's resume to the coach we had here and the criticism he took in his last 2-3 seasons... Either JJ deserves a hell of a lot more respect and appreciation from the people who criticized him then, or UTA's Athletics Director may be righter than either of us want to give him credit for.

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

14 minutes ago, TheTastyGreek said:

The comparison is, you (rightly) think that Cross was a very good bordering on great coach who deserves a hell of a lot more respect and appreciation for what he did at UTA than this firing demonstrates. Meanwhile, you often seem to give Todd Freaking Dodge more credit for his accomplishments here than you do Johnny Jones.

When you live every game with a program, you remember every frustrating loss or bad performance. Especially when you're looking for them. Like that awful loss on the stage at UTA (I was there, too!) or the two last second/last minute heartbreakers that kept us out of the NCAA Tournament in 2011 and 2012.

When you follow from a distance, you remember the Memphis and Ohio State wins... But you don't notice when that guy takes his senior-heavy preseason conference favorite squad and loses by 25 to a sub .500 (both then and at the end of the year) Coastal Carolina team. Or when he loses by 20-25 or more to directional Louisianas, Arkansas Jrs., Georgia States, etc. You don't bias yourself to think he can't coach defense or execute a game plan, because you weren't watching when he gave up 104 points and lost by 23 to a winless Montana State team that finished the year 7-23.

Your memory tells you that our guy "could never figure out" a team and a coach that he beat 7 out of 10 times and never lost to outside of Denver, but you don't have any memories of the time that Cross's team only managed 35 freaking points in Arlington against Joe Scott and that Denver version of the Princeton scheme.

I don't want this to seem personal, because I feel like the only time this point of frustration actually did get a little heated and personal, you were actually super cool about sending me a nice message and making sure we wound up in a friendly place again. And, honestly, you're far from the most unreasonable and inconsistent person on the JJ vs. others evaluation.

The comparison comes from seeing you and @untbowler (justifiably) look at this with bafflement and mockery in this thread, calling it a stupid decision. But when we had a coach with a nearly identical track record over a nearly identical period of time, the stuff you guys were saying at the same point in JJ's tenure was WILDLY different than your take on Scott Cross. And when you look at what was said this time last year when people were (foolishly, in my opinion) bringing up the hypothetical of re-hiring JJ here... A depressing number of people, including Bowler (but not you, I don't think... I don't have the stomach to look at old threads from the end of Benford days) talked about JJ's successes here like they were UTA's AD giving Scott Cross his termination papers.

It sucks that the track record of a guy who did a lot of great things for us and hasn't been here in 6 years has to constantly get re-litigated. But, to me, it sucks worse when our own fan base mis-remembers or misrepresents what we had. So when that stuff keeps happening (like it did just a week ago), I think it merits pointing out how nearly identical the track record of Cross wound up relative to Jones, especially when a not-insignificant number of our fans here claimed one to be far superior, both 6 years ago and as recently as last year up to today.

Anyway... I don't know and probably never will understand why some of our fans have to minimize our accomplishments and diminish the people that led us to them. And I remember, distinctly, how much you used to appreciate the guy (Basketball Jones, and a 30+ minute phone call where we talked through the rumors of SMU firing Doherty and hiring JJ away pre-2011). And it baffles me why in the years since then, you seem to only remember (or, at least, bring up) the most terrible moments and biggest disappointments of his career here.

Scott Cross was a damn good coach for UTA, and he did a lot of special things there. It's a shame and an outrage that their administration apparently didn't appreciate him and his achievements. But, if you're comparing Scott's resume to the coach we had here and the criticism he took in his last 2-3 seasons... Either JJ deserves a hell of a lot more respect and appreciation from the people who criticized him then, or UTA's Athletics Director may be righter than either of us want to give him credit for.

Your comparing Apples To Prunes. We didn't fire JJ.

And I just reminded everyone yesterday on the football board that without a cheating advantage with top players Dodge couldn't win..in high school or in college.

Again, I don't get ya. I'm trying to...but I don't.

Rick

Edited March 27, 2018 by FirefightnRick

97and03 · March 27, 2018

What do Ashton, Capps, Dodge, Slinker, Kee, and Cross all have in common...

CMJ · March 27, 2018

8 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Your comparing Apples To Prunes. We didn't fire JJ.

And I just reminded everyone yesterday on the football board that without a cheating advantage with top players Dodge couldn't win..in high school or in college.

Again, I don't get ya. I'm trying to...but I don't.

Rick

We may not have, but I remember several people here and the "Mean and Green" board thinking we should think about it.

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

Just now, CMJ said:

We may not have, but I remember several people here and the "Mean and Green" board thinking we should think about it.

But the University of North Texas didn't.

Rick

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

10 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

What do Ashton, Capps, Dodge, Slinker, Kee, and Cross all have in common...

They all hired previous players to coach for them?

Rick

MeanGreenHoops · March 27, 2018

26 minutes ago, TheTastyGreek said:

The comparison is, you (rightly) think that Cross was a very good bordering on great coach who deserves a hell of a lot more respect and appreciation for what he did at UTA than this firing demonstrates. Meanwhile, you often seem to give Todd Freaking Dodge more credit for his accomplishments here than you do Johnny Jones.

When you live every game with a program, you remember every frustrating loss or bad performance. Especially when you're looking for them. Like that awful loss on the stage at UTA (I was there, too!) or the two last second/last minute heartbreakers that kept us out of the NCAA Tournament in 2011 and 2012.

When you follow from a distance, you remember the Memphis and Ohio State wins... But you don't notice when that guy takes his senior-heavy preseason conference favorite squad and loses by 25 to a sub .500 (both then and at the end of the year) Coastal Carolina team. Or when he loses by 20-25 or more to directional Louisianas, Arkansas Jrs., Georgia States, etc. You don't bias yourself to think he can't coach defense or execute a game plan, because you weren't watching when he gave up 104 points and lost by 23 to a winless Montana State team that finished the year 7-23.

Your memory tells you that our guy "could never figure out" a team and a coach that he beat 7 out of 10 times and never lost to outside of Denver, but you don't have any memories of the time that Cross's team only managed 35 freaking points in Arlington against Joe Scott and that Denver version of the Princeton scheme.

I don't want this to seem personal, because I feel like the only time this point of frustration actually did get a little heated and personal, you were actually super cool about sending me a nice message and making sure we wound up in a friendly place again. And, honestly, you're far from the most unreasonable and inconsistent person on the JJ vs. others evaluation.

The comparison comes from seeing you and @untbowler (justifiably) look at this with bafflement and mockery in this thread, calling it a stupid decision. But when we had a coach with a nearly identical track record over a nearly identical period of time, the stuff you guys were saying at the same point in JJ's tenure was WILDLY different than your take on Scott Cross. And when you look at what was said this time last year when people were (foolishly, in my opinion) bringing up the hypothetical of re-hiring JJ here... A depressing number of people, including Bowler (but not you, I don't think... I don't have the stomach to look at old threads from the end of Benford days) talked about JJ's successes here like they were UTA's AD giving Scott Cross his termination papers.

It sucks that the track record of a guy who did a lot of great things for us and hasn't been here in 6 years has to constantly get re-litigated. But, to me, it sucks worse when our own fan base mis-remembers or misrepresents what we had. So when that stuff keeps happening (like it did just a week ago), I think it merits pointing out how nearly identical the track record of Cross wound up relative to Jones, especially when a not-insignificant number of our fans here claimed one to be far superior, both 6 years ago and as recently as last year up to today.

Anyway... I don't know and probably never will understand why some of our fans have to minimize our accomplishments and diminish the people that led us to them. And I remember, distinctly, how much you used to appreciate the guy (Basketball Jones, and a 30+ minute phone call where we talked through the rumors of SMU firing Doherty and hiring JJ away pre-2011). And it baffles me why in the years since then, you seem to only remember (or, at least, bring up) the most terrible moments and biggest disappointments of his career here.

Scott Cross was a damn good coach for UTA, and he did a lot of special things there. It's a shame and an outrage that their administration apparently didn't appreciate him and his achievements. But, if you're comparing Scott's resume to the coach we had here and the criticism he took in his last 2-3 seasons... Either JJ deserves a hell of a lot more respect and appreciation from the people who criticized him then, or UTA's Athletics Director may be righter than either of us want to give him credit for.

Nice post. I wish you posted more these days. Too bad you were Benford'd

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

10 minutes ago, TheTastyGreek said:

As I promised before the year even began... I am waiting until the end of the season to make a final evaluation on the program.

Also, I've been busy with other stuff, and I don't want to jump in (positive or negative) when I'm, at best, only really half paying attention to our athletic programs.

Well, taking time out to type up a 9 paragraph post in an attempt to compare Scott Cross's firing by his boss to fan criticism of Johnny Jones, then I'd say your well on your way.

Welcome back.

Rick

Edited March 27, 2018 by FirefightnRick

TreeFiddy · March 27, 2018

3 hours ago, Prettylittleeagle said:

If UTA can pay a big name to come in and win then do it. I doubt they have the funds and haven't read anything outside of this thread. If you have the funds why settle for 1 tournament appearance in 12 seasons? good on em. It's not like the UT system schools are broke.

Sound logic. Possibly minimizing a man's career achievements, but why take a chance. Amirite?

Edited March 27, 2018 by TreeFiddy

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2018

4 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Sound logic. Possibly minimizing a man's career achievements, but why take a chance. Amirite?

Only...that wasn't his only achievement. He won a regular season conference championship, a post season conference championship and had post season wins in the NIT.

Rick