More Plunder And Deceit

[FirefightnRick]

Our congress is back to spending like drunken sailors.  Below a list of the 25 house reps who had the guts to put their foot down, and Texas only had two, Gohmert and Weber.

In the Senate that sack Cornyn helped McConnell insert gun control measures into it.  Cruz voted no.

$1.3 Trillion more added to our children's future. Some day we'll pass the point of no return.

And now Trump signed it, mostly to fund the military, though vowing to never sign another one.  Yeah we'll see.  .  Terrible!

 

Rick

Edited March 24, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[GTWT]

What budget items would you take out?

[FirefightnRick]

1 minute ago, GTWT said:

What budget items would you take out?

Mostly the non-military($700 Billion).  But honestly I can't say for sure and neither can anyone else since the damn thing was 2300 pages long and McConnell disallowed enough time for the members to vet it.

 

Rick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---And the national debt was less then $6 trillion when Clinton left office in 2001 after 200+ years and many wars.. then the GOP took over both Congress and the White House in 2001....    Mostly blame Congress for the increase in debt.. they pass all spending and tax bills. ... Now it is over $20 trillion after after all the tax cuts to the super wealthy...  And they just gave corporations a 40% reduction in taxes from 35% to 21%.... [ 21 is only 60% of 35 ]  So much for claiming to be the conservative party and with the actions of the guy in White House ... the family values claim went out the window also. 

---I wonder how much the President will make extra because of that tax cut .... likely that is why he will not release his tax forms .. doesn't want us to know. 

[GTWT]

12 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Mostly the non-military($700 Billion).  But honestly I can't say for sure and neither can anyone else since the damn thing was 2300 pages long and McConnell disallowed enough time for the members to vet it.

 

Rick

We would probably agree that budget bills should only concern spending.  This bill contains myriad riders and add-ons that make it cumbersome & unreadable.  

That still leaves questions concerning funding priorities.  You don't want to reduce military funding, which is nearly 50% of the budget, that reduces our options for overall retrenchment.  What broad areas would you reduce or cut completely?

[DeepGreen]

14 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Mostly the non-military($700 Billion).  But honestly I can't say for sure and neither can anyone else since the damn thing was 2300 pages long and McConnell disallowed enough time for the members to vet it.

 

Rick

You have to pass it before you can read it. Where have I heard that before?

Seriously  though, this continuing deficit is like a bad disease.

[FirefightnRick]

23 hours ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

---And the national debt was less then $6 trillion when Clinton left office in 2001 after 200+ years and many wars.. then the GOP took over both Congress and the White House in 2001....    Mostly blame Congress for the increase in debt.. they pass all spending and tax bills. ... Now it is over $20 trillion after after all the tax cuts to the super wealthy...  And they just gave corporations a 40% reduction in taxes from 35% to 21%.... [ 21 is only 60% of 35 ]  So much for claiming to be the conservative party and with the actions of the guy in White House ... the family values claim went out the window also. 

---I wonder how much the President will make extra because of that tax cut .... likely that is why he will not release his tax forms .. doesn't want us to know. 

You mean when Clinton left with a republican congress?  

...but the Obama administration tripling the dept gets a pass from you, right?  

At least I try and hold BOTH sides of the aisle accountable.  I'm sick of it from all of them.  That's all I'm saying.  

The GOP ran as conservatives, then acted like Libs.  They'll pay for it in November, and they should.

 

Rick

Edited March 25, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I. Obama did not triple the debt... he did not even double it.... plus he inherited a situation after the 2009 economic crisis that cause a lot less taxes to be paid  and the debt grew then because of that.. ... and most of the time including  his final 6 years the Congress which pass tax laws and spending bills was GOP controlled. 

 2. You are right about what the GOP after 2001 ... acted as financial liberals..

3. Read below ... You will see what say is correct...  .The Bush/GOP  era end in 2009 and the debt was nearly $12 trillion. and was less than $6 trilion when he took office.     

.I don't make up stuff........ Below --- First is 2000-2015 ... the next is 1950 -1999 .... note the huge difference... in ALL  Presidents (both parties )  prior to 2001 compared to afterwards when the GOP dominated Washington.. ..   Afater 2001 is whee the debt went crazy ... yes I can be balanced .. But I deal in the truth not made up facts. . 

 https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm  

---------------------------------------

 

I have no idea where you got the idea he tripled it ... Fox probably ... they are not known for the REAL  truth.  Check facts... I can and do.....

Edited March 26, 2018 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[FirefightnRick]

4 hours ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

I. Obama did not triple the debt... he did not even double it.... plus he inherited a situation after the 2009 economic crisis that cause a lot less taxes to be paid  and the debt grew then because of that.. ... and most of the time including  his final 6 years the Congress which pass tax laws and spending bills was GOP controlled. 

 2. You are right about what the GOP after 2001 ... acted as financial liberals..

3. Read below ... You will see what say is correct...  .The Bush/GOP  era end in 2009 and the debt was nearly $12 trillion. and was less than $6 trilion when he took office.     

.I don't make up stuff........ Below --- First is 2000-2015 ... the next is 1950 -1999 .... note the huge difference... in ALL  Presidents (both parties )  prior to 2001 compared to afterwards when the GOP dominated Washington.. ..   Afater 2001 is whee the debt went crazy ... yes I can be balanced .. But I deal in the truth not made up facts. . 

 https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm  

---------------------------------------

 

I have no idea where you got the idea he tripled it ... Fox probably ... they are not known for the REAL  truth.  Check facts... I can and do.....

I'm not so sure you checked any facts at all?

The GOP lost the House and Senate in '06, and didn't regain it again until January 2014. As for your numbers...

 Per your link and your source...

Trump's debt he inherited:  $18,678,888,650,517.82 

minus

Obama's debt he inherited: $9,007,653,372,262.48

= $9,671,235,278,255.34

Obama, with a democrat controlled congress until January 2014 more than doubled our debt overall, and raised it to the point where it tripled the debt from what it was when Clinton left office ($5,674,178,209,886.86).  

Also,....I'm not dismissing it as being ok at all as I hated that Bush signed his '07 bailout, but per your source....Bush increased the debt $3,333,475,162,375.62 in his 8 years in office.  That's only a third of what Obama's increase was from January '08 to January '17.  

But to you,.....that's when the debt went crazy.  It was Bush' $3 Trillion increase as to when things REALLY came unhinged around here......not Obama's more than $9 Trillion increase, right? 

 

  Rick

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[MGNation92]

I'll just leave this here....

 

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

The Democrats did not control congress until 2014 under Obama  as you claim... check facts... They did  Jan, 2009-Jan 2011 ONLY... those were years that the economy was trying to recover from the 2008 economic meltdown. ... things were not good then. 

The debt you listed is not right either...the Bush administration left in Jan 2009 and their fiscal year year ended later [ Aug I think]  and their budget does also.. so it is more accurate to use 2001 to 2009.. not 2000-2008. Clinton was in office all of 2000 and that budget lasted until mid 2001(also 2000 taxes paid in 2001). ... and the first two years of Obama was real problem ones  due to the 2008 economic Crisis so bad many banks and car companies where bailed out and with high unemployment  ... the worse since the depression in the 30's.  Tax revenue went way down those two years plus I assume you understand income tax enough to know that those with huge stock accounts were rigging their taxes to show losses and not gains which can carry over into several years after that which reduced their tax debt. (and tax revenue) ... I teach college math and even mathematics of finance and I am not making "stuff" up.  I am very well informed on financial issues. 

 

House of Rep control:  (it is easy to check facts and I will and  people should).... and  Fox never tells anything bad about the GOP if that is what you think you are quoting.  IT IS WRONG.  Plus there are a lot of fake news sites on the web [ not major networks] that lie like crazy. They get a lot of gullible people believing that BS.  Apparently many sites were put up by Russian  groups but had very patriotic American sounding names and a lot of people re-posted this BS on Facebook etc... This problem is all over the news. 

 http://history.house.gov/Institution/Party-Divisions/Party-Divisions/ 

 

Look at the chart again... the debt started up AFTER the  crisis and 2001 tax cut which gave 90% or more to the extremely wealthy... Especially long term capital gains.. which dropped to 15% after that.... That is a lesser rate than I pay even and am not that extremely wealthy.  You may have gotten a small cut .. but nothing like they did and the debt then went crazy... starting in 2002 or so.  Remember that $6 trillion until 2001 was the result of TWO HUNDRED YEARS plus some expensive wars including WWII. .... not eight years.   The tax cuts and having another war (unjustified, no nukes) as Cheney kept promising and even said he KNEW (supposedly) where they were. How are things in the Middle East now .??  ... worse. 

.

The debt will get worse .. much worse .... after this last tax cut mostly to corporations (a 40% cut) ...  No one wants to pay taxes but this can not go on forever... and even it is possible that the interest could eventually exceed tax  revenue ... ie. bankrupt.. not good .. and very bad times would follow. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Just my opinion:  Trump did not release his tax forms (as promised) because he doesn't want the public to know how much MORE money he will make as a result of this last tax cut..... It will be a lot because of the severe drop in corporate tax rate. 

[UNTFan23]

9 minutes ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

Just my opinion:  Trump did not release his tax forms (as promised) because he doesn't want the public to know how much MORE money he will make as a result of this last tax cut..... It will be a lot because of the severe drop in corporate tax rate. 

Tax forms do little to disclose current stock and real estate holdings (or their values!), only the income create through actions like dividends, short and long term capital gains/losses, and other revenue.

[GTWT]

From the American Institute of Physics:

The final package is a boon for federally sponsored scientific research, infrastructure, and STEM education. However, agencies do not benefit equally. Billions of dollars in new funding will flow to research and facilities at the Department of Energy and the National Institutes of Health. Other science agencies, such as the National Science Foundation, are receiving more moderate increases. A few programs that have been in the political crosshairs, such as the research offices at the Environmental Protection Agency, are likely to count their outcome of flat funding as a win.

Everyone has his/her priorities.  Personally, I'd rather fund science & get along with one less carrier task force.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

12 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

I'm not so sure you checked any facts at all?

The GOP lost the House and Senate in '06, and didn't regain it again until January 2014. As for your numbers...

 Per your link and your source...

Trump's debt he inherited:  $18,678,888,650,517.82 

minus

Obama's debt he inherited: $9,007,653,372,262.48

= $9,671,235,278,255.34

Obama, with a democrat controlled congress until January 2014 more than doubled our debt overall, and raised it to the point where it tripled the debt from what it was when Clinton left office ($5,674,178,209,886.86).  

Also,....I'm not dismissing it as being ok at all as I hated that Bush signed his '07 bailout, but per your source....Bush increased the debt $3,333,475,162,375.62 in his 8 years in office.  That's only a third of what Obama's increase was from January '08 to January '17.  

But to you,.....that's when the debt went crazy.  It was Bush' $3 Trillion increase as to when things REALLY came unhinged around here......not Obama's more than $9 Trillion increase, right? 

 

  Rick

 

 

.Rick ......the Democrats did not control Congress until 2014...  as you claimed. 

The GOP took over in Jan 2011 look at the link I posted ... 2011-2013 ...   193 Democrats and 242 GOP members.... 

I don't where you get that "stuff".. but it is not accurate. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

..... This is from the US Treasury site I linked to.  ... not political --Doubt me ..... go read it .. 

The end of Nixon/Ford budget 1977 debt --- $ 0.7 trilion

The end of Carter budget  1981 ....  . debt ----$ 0.9 trillion

The end of Reagan budget  1989 .... debt ---- $ 2.8 trillion

The end of  G. Bush budget 1993 .... debt  ------ $4.4 trillion

The end  of Clinton budget 2001 ..... debt ----- $5.8 trillion.   ---- after 200+ years. 

The end of W. Bush Budget 2009 .. debt ------ $11.9 trillion   ..... that is not a $3 trillion increase as you claimed. 

The end of Obama ---- about $19 (as you said) ..not listed here. but note how it slowed down in those last years (below)  after the economic crisis and he  even had a GOP Congress and still that tax cut for the wealthy in effect. .  It isn't good but considering less money coming in from taxes after 2008 for several years and a GOP Congress..

Now (with Trump)  it is a little more than $21 trillion  ......  $21.065  trillion.  so the treasury site says. (today) 

 

Date	Dollar Amount
09/30/2015	18,150,617,666,484.33
09/30/2014	17,824,071,380,733.82
09/30/2013	16,738,183,526,697.32
09/30/2012	16,066,241,407,385.89
09/30/2011	14,790,340,328,557.15
09/30/2010	13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009	11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008	10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007	9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006	8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005	7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004	7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003	6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002	6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001	5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000	5,674,178,209,886.86

Edited March 26, 2018 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, GTWT said:

From the American Institute of Physics:

 

 

Everyone has his/her priorities.  Personally, I'd rather fund science & get along with one less carrier task force.

Looks like it is getting funded.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

2 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Tax forms do little to disclose current stock and real estate holdings (or their values!), only the income create through actions like dividends, short and long term capital gains/losses, and other revenue.

True.....They show near nothing about any ones total wealth ...   but they do reveal how much income he has made and would show how much more he would be making after the corporate tax cut  .. 

[FirefightnRick]

2 hours ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

 

.Rick ......the Democrats did not control Congress until 2014...  as you claimed. 

The GOP took over in Jan 2011 look at the link I posted ... 2011-2013 ...   193 Democrats and 242 GOP members.... 

I don't where you get that "stuff".. but it is not accurate. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

..... This is from the US Treasury site I linked to.  ... not political --Doubt me ..... go read it .. 

The end of Nixon/Ford budget 1977 debt --- $ 0.7 trilion

The end of Carter budget  1981 ....  . debt ----$ 0.9 trillion

The end of Reagan budget  1989 .... debt ---- $ 2.8 trillion

The end of  G. Bush budget 1993 .... debt  ------ $4.4 trillion

The end  of Clinton budget 2001 ..... debt ----- $5.8 trillion.   ---- after 200+ years. 

The end of W. Bush Budget 2009 .. debt ------ $11.9 trillion   ..... that is not a $3 trillion increase as you claimed. 

The end of Obama ---- about $19 (as you said) ..not listed here. but note how it slowed down in those last years (below)  after the economic crisis and he  even had a GOP Congress and still that tax cut for the wealthy in effect. .  It isn't good but considering less money coming in from taxes after 2008 for several years and a GOP Congress..

Now (with Trump)  it is a little more than $21 trillion  ......  $21.065  trillion.  so the treasury site says. (today) 

 

Date	Dollar Amount
09/30/2015	18,150,617,666,484.33
09/30/2014	17,824,071,380,733.82
09/30/2013	16,738,183,526,697.32
09/30/2012	16,066,241,407,385.89
09/30/2011	14,790,340,328,557.15
09/30/2010	13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009	11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008	10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007	9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006	8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005	7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004	7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003	6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002	6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001	5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000	5,674,178,209,886.86

My bad..... 2010 was when the GOP gained the house, but did not gain the Senate until 2014...that must be what I was thinking of?

Still...Bush's first budget from Sept '01 to his last in Sept '09....(I missed a year earlier).....increased by $4,217,261,484,712.43,....which is less than half of what Obama's increase was....per your source.

But not a discouraging word about it from you other than excuses despite you claiming to being "balanced".

 

Rick

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

8 hours ago, GTWT said:

From the American Institute of Physics:

 

 

Everyone has his/her priorities.  Personally, I'd rather fund science & get along with one less carrier task force.

I could live with that if it's a need and comes with some cuts.  But here's the thing that guys like 66 don't get.  

This bill was 2,232 pages long and because of POS's leaders like Schumer and McConnell....congress was only given 17 hours to read it before being able to decide on what's a need or not.

So unless they stuudied at the Evelyn Woods school of speed reading...your representative and mine didn't get a chance to vet it..  Therefore, you and I....we didn't get to have a say.  We're losing our representative republic and no one seems to give a $#!+ about it.

Pisses me off man...as it should everyone else.

 

Rick

Edited March 27, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I only had two big problems with the Bush years ...... ONE: we invaded without using the intelligence we had available even with satellite photos ... and just took the word of a Liar (Curveball, an Iraqi citizen) that Germany and others including France insisted could not be trusted... 100's of Americans died as a result and the situation in the Middle East is worse than before we invaded... Yes Saddam was a bad guy but not as bad as things are now. Cheney who I consider to be the big factor in causing the invasion  kept insisting HE knew where the nukes were .... he lied. Gen Powell (Sec of defense then) on the other hand seemed to be questioning it .  It cost a lot of money and lives and still is not completely resolved. It had nothing to do with being unpatriotic by opposing it ... I don't want Americans killed for a stupid reason.  Yet some of us got greatly criticized for opposing it. ..

..TWO the debt started the debt climb with the passage of the tax bill in 2001? that gave the super wealthy 90% of the tax cut.. Normal people did not get much... just a bone thrown their way .... Every other war in history taxes were raised to pay for it ... not this one ... Congress cut taxes instead...   That gave the Bush or Obama administration little chance to balance the budget... plus Congress has made no effort to stop it and it will get worse  because of interest and war costs and now even worse (in my opinion) with this latest cut..... and you will see that nearly all of it went to corporations ... not us.  Like an individual .... when debt gets very high, ... it is nearly impossible to stop it and pay off largely because of the interest.... 

.Do I like to pay taxes ... hell no ... but quit giving cuts to those who don't need one. ..The super wealthy and corporations (big contributors directly and indirectly) on their 2018 taxes will be cut 40%.. (due next year)  What has gone on since 2001 (financially ) is not even close to conservative.... but the party that claims that...  is responsible ... mostly. 

I  am nothing like a lot here try to "paint" me.  Liberal, unpatriotic, dumb, and anti-gun. All of us are conservative on some issues and a bit liberal on others.... To me the gun issue is backwards.... I would think conservatives, like other things,  want regulations and controls, and liberals don't want any.

if you want to popular with your kids .... give them money and everything they want even  if you can't afford it.. make no rules either ...... Unfortunately that works with politicians who also tell people what they want to hear and that will get them  elected... .  

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66