A University of Wisconsin campus pushes plan to drop 13 majors — including English, history and philosophy

[oldguystudent]

I've got mixed feelings about this. 
 

Quote

The University of Wisconsin at Stevens Point has proposed dropping 13 majors in the humanities and social sciences — including English, philosophy, history, sociology and Spanish — while adding programs with “clear career pathways” as a way to address declining enrollment and a multimillion-dollar deficit.

Link

[GTWT]

The university is no longer an educational institute, its new mission is vocational training.

Edited March 22, 2018 by GTWT

[Mean Green 93-98]

3 hours ago, GTWT said:

The university is no longer an educational institute, it's new mission is vocational training.

Agreed.  I understand that if a school has a multimillion dollar deficit, something needs to be done.  But it bothers me that colleges and universities are altering their foci to become overpriced trade schools.

[GTWT]

It's not just U W Steven's Point.  Academia as a whole has become more and more concerned with the marketability of graduates.  I think we would all agree that it should be the mission to turn out employable engineers, teachers, & MDs, however I think we would also agree that those graduates should be well educated engineers, teachers, & MDs.  A graduate can be well qualified in business & still have an appreciation & understanding of Shakespeare, Darwin, & Goethe.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

--- May not be related but the Governor up there has not been a "friend" of education....  One concern I have had is the lack of really good counseling on campuses about employment opportunities of various majors.  They may be "fun" or interesting majors but the real purpose of education should be preparing students for employment and life after college.  --  A cartoon I have on my college office door is a Shoe cartoon with one guy stating that he graduated with a PHD in some obscure philosophy degree and the other responds "What does that make you"   -- response ... "Unemployed".   Above it I have written "One reason to major in "Math/Science/Engineering".

--- They should not do away with those degrees ( or minors) especially history and English but better counseling should be done about employment opportunities after graduation..  

Edited March 22, 2018 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66
left out words

[GTWT]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that the applied majors aren't always what the employers are looking for.  I used to have a good friend fairly high in the Human Resources Division of IBM.  She told me that she often preferred to hire humanities majors, especially English majors, even for fairly technical positions.  They're able to read & communicate and they don't come in thinking they know everything about computers & programming.  They learn what IBM wants them to know, not what some computer instructor at UNT thought they ought to know.

[UNTFan23]

On 3/22/2018 at 1:50 PM, GTWT said:

I think one thing to keep in mind is that the applied majors aren't always what the employers are looking for.  I used to have a good friend fairly high in the Human Resources Division of IBM.  She told me that she often preferred to hire humanities majors, especially English majors, even for fairly technical positions.  They're able to read & communicate and they don't come in thinking they know everything about computers & programming.  They learn what IBM wants them to know, not what some computer instructor at UNT thought they ought to know.

Maybe for a Business Analyst or Product Manager but a CompSci major can walk in many times and begin to write production ready code almost immediately.

Some companies might be fine hiring a non-technical person for a technical job but my employer and more specifically my division requires either a technical degree or some technical experience for even just an entry-level position.

[GTWT]

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

Some companies might be fine hiring a non-technical person for a technical job but my employer and more specifically my division requires either a technical degree or some technical experience for even just an entry-level position.

Wouldn't your company also prefer that their computer programmer be well educated?  If not, you should consider hiring graduates of DeVry's not UNT.

[UNTFan23]

1 minute ago, GTWT said:

Wouldn't your company also prefer that their computer programmer be well educated?  If not, you should consider hiring graduates of DeVry's not UNT.

That's kind of a silly remark, isn't it? A CompSci major from UNT is going to have the same general education as an English major, the big exception being the CompSci major graduate already possesses specific knowledge on how to do their job. An English major graduate would require months of training just to understand advanced concepts like AI, Object Oriented Methodologies, Web Services, etc.

It all comes down to whether the company wants new employees to be able to immediately provide value to the company or if they are fine investing tens of thousands of dollars in a new hire to train them to have the knowledge and skills needed to perform the job they were hired to perform.

[GTWT]

1 hour ago, UNTFan23 said:

That's kind of a silly remark, isn't it? A CompSci major from UNT is going to have the same general education as an English major, ...

If you read the thread again I'm sure you'll pick up on the topic being the reduced focus in universities on subjects like English, History, & Philosophy.  The university is under increasing pressure to produce graduates with skills, employable skills - whether those graduates also are also educated is becoming unimportant.

[FirefightnRick]

On 3/22/2018 at 8:19 AM, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

--- May not be related but the Governor up there has not been a "friend" of education....  One concern I have had is the lack of really good counseling on campuses about employment opportunities of various majors.  They may be "fun" or interesting majors but the real purpose of education should be preparing students for employment and life after college.  --  A cartoon I have on my college office door is a Shoe cartoon with one guy stating that he graduated with a PHD in some obscure philosophy degree and the other responds "What does that make you"   -- response ... "Unemployed".   Above it I have written "One reason to major in "Math/Science/Engineering".

--- They should not do away with those degrees ( or minors) especially history and English but better counseling should be done about employment opportunities after graduation..  

So then you agree with the efforts of Govornor Walker and the Republican-led Wisconsin legislature?  

 

Rick

  

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

6 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

So then you agree with the efforts of Govornor Walker and the Republican-led Wisconsin legislature?  

 

Rick

  

 Not exactly ... not drop those majors but let students know that some of those degrees do not lead to well paying or many  jobs in the future .. in other words better advice from the college and maybe even in high schools is needed.. . I recently was looking at majors of students graduating from college (not UNT) and too many were in areas of "not great" job opportunities.  if a student wants a degree in "Bulgarian Lit"  well ... have at it ... but don't expect many job offers and don't complain when they  can't get one. . 

..... Why must everything be related to a political party ..... Who cares what party controls the legislature ... officials are elected to serve the public not a political party. Politicians should not be just puppets to a party or some donor and should think for themselves and do what is right. .  

.What I have read about Wisconsin public education isn't very good...  Things have gone down in Texas as well ... Students I am now seeing are not what we once had... A lot less state funding putting more pressure on local property taxes  ( I am guessing yours has gone up a lot.. don't blame them, blame the state for cutting their share of funding... money has to come from some where) and those  current stupid tests that we now have  also hurt... Remember those tests have nothing to do with me except I see the students after high school.  They do not indicate much about the teacher other than who spent too much time teaching just the test items. 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[FirefightnRick]

 

On 3/22/2018 at 8:19 AM, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

--- [May not be related but the Governor up there has not been a "friend" of education....   

11 hours ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

 ..... Why must everything be related to a political party ..... Who cares . 

Um.....you do, maybe?

 

Rick

Edited March 29, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

What is your deal .??.. about every time I post you attack me or try to make fun of me.... I have done nothing to you.. ... In the past I have even talked to you before football games although I never used my ID here..... .. Freedom of speech does exist. 

.I grew up in an era that political parties got along... Go  back and look at LBJ/Dirkson/Ford/Goldwater era.. . Yes they did vote SOMEWHAT on party lines but not as extreme as now. Things started changing greatly in the 90's...  The tea-party types showed up claiming to be conservative and look at the debt now ... like it or not taxes have to collected if money is spent for highways, education, law enforcement, food inspections, courts , military, etc.  What has happened is the super wealthy and corporations have received huge cuts and the rest of us ...very little..... Pay attention ... In Texas property taxes have climbed as state funding fell for various things and then they brag about cutting taxes ... well not really... locals have had to make up the difference. 

. People in public education and many others do not like Gov. Walker..... He does have a point about about seeing students major in a subject that leads to good jobs... but that is about it.  -- It is not about which party but what he has done... This is widely known to people who work in education and many others...  Can't access the Washington Post article (subscribers only) on him and what he has done. ... but one exists. . Scan this. 

http://onewisconsinnow.org/scottwalker/education/ 

[FirefightnRick]

3 hours ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

What is your deal .??.. 

 

What's yours?  I'm simply pointing out your contradictions.  

Are you arguing with yourself...or what?

 

Rick

Edited March 29, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[GTWT]

23 hours ago, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

 Not exactly ... not drop those majors but let students know that some of those degrees do not lead to well paying or many  jobs in the future .. in other words better advice from the college and maybe even in high schools is needed.. . 

 

Here's an article that links to advice on expected earnings for graduates.

 https://www.chronicle.com/article/A-New-Tool-Breaks-Down/242944?cid=trend_au&elqTrackId=769e7314dff44cfb92b838f649b572a5&elq=40309fbd3d804370bbf0e3ea4031da6b&elqaid=18371&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=8228