DRC breaking news -- UNT fee vote passes

Harry · February 27, 2018

23 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Guys, we can wish we that we could have gone to Shreveport to play Florida State in the I-Bowl, but the I-Bowl committee wanted USM, not us. I heard it from someone connected to that committee that they wanted USM because they knew, without a doubt, that USM would travel well there. They KNEW that. UNT was less certain in their opinion--not ours, theirs. And don't think for a moment that FSU didn't exert pressure on them to get a better named G5 team that would appeal to them playing there. Not saying that is even right, but it is the world we live in, the P5 powers control the entire thing.

Good post Jim. I think many of us had underestimated how much this Shereveport game has stung the fan base and how many good fans did not make the trip to New Orleans but would have made it to Shreveport. I had a good time in New Orleans (other than the outcome) but would always rather be at a place more accessible to all of our good fans.

wardly · February 27, 2018

51 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

New Mexico Bowl is played on the same day as the NOLA Bowl and is actually farther from Denton than NOLA.

I know that it is much father, just couldn't remember the date. Thanks for information.

Cerebus · February 27, 2018

36 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I heard it from someone connected to that committee that they wanted USM because they knew, without a doubt, that USM would travel well there. They KNEW that. UNT was less certain in their opinion--not ours, theirs.

And then we proved them right by travelling poorly.

I have been a fan for only a few decades now, but I have heard a ton of excuses as to why this program has never taken off like it should. "just came back from 1AA", "don't pay coaches enough", "we need a new stadium", "we don't play Texas schools", etc etc.

At what point do you look in the mirror and start to think the problem is the fan base?

MeanGreen_MBA · February 27, 2018

Just now, Cerebus said:

And then we proved them right by travelling poorly.

I have been a fan for only a few decades now, but I have heard a ton of excuses as to why this program has never taken off like it should. "just came back from 1AA", "don't pay coaches enough", "we need a new stadium", "we don't play Texas schools", etc etc.

At what point do you look in the mirror and start to think the problem is the fan base?

it is.... Just sayin" I am hoping, and can actually see the results, the WB and this administration are moving the needle to on-board a stronger fan base.... We just need to get the students to buy in long term.....

Harry · February 27, 2018

20 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

And then we proved them right by travelling poorly.

I have been a fan for only a few decades now, but I have heard a ton of excuses as to why this program has never taken off like it should. "just came back from 1AA", "don't pay coaches enough", "we need a new stadium", "we don't play Texas schools", etc etc.

At what point do you look in the mirror and start to think the problem is the fan base?

The fan base is an indication of the success of a program. It is easy to blame the fans. When your football program has one winning season in basically a decade it has an effect on the fans and their willingness to travel. Also, the timing of the NO bowl and the costs associated with going were much higher than back in the Sun Belt era when we were winning a lot. I too was disappointed with the turnout but I think there are other reasons that caused it that need to be recognized.

Ben Gooding · February 27, 2018

2 hours ago, Cerebus said:

And then we proved them right by travelling poorly.

I have been a fan for only a few decades now, but I have heard a ton of excuses as to why this program has never taken off like it should. "just came back from 1AA", "don't pay coaches enough", "we need a new stadium", "we don't play Texas schools", etc etc.

At what point do you look in the mirror and start to think the problem is the fan base?

RV, is that you?

You can't blame the fans, current or old, of the apathy that surrounds the program. This falls on the AD, primarily the previous Prez/AD as well as the AD/Prez that dropped us down to 1AA. A metric shit ton of blame falls directly on those 4 sets of shoulders.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Ben Gooding

untjim1995 · February 27, 2018

14 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

RV, is that you?

You can blame the fans, current or old, of the apathy that surrounds the program. This falls on the AD, primarily the previous Prez/AD as well as the AD/Prez that dropped us down to 1AA. A metric shit ton of blame falls directly on those 4 sets of shoulders.

That last part falls directly on Alfred Hurley, the chancellor of UNT during the disastrous I-aa debacle. Again, if the NCAA required us to drop down because Fouts didn't meet minimum capacity, we should have used Texas Stadium or the Cotton Bowl as our home. Or let it drop down for a year or two, but get Fouts expanded to 30k in 1984, not 1994.

After that, I feel like the next person to really blame was Gretchen Bataille. As President, she kept RV as AD, personally asked for us to hire Shanice Stephens as women's head coach, and made it clear that Todd Dodge was the preferable choice because he would make less than she did.

As I always said about RV, he was a mere symptom of the problem. But once Smatresk got in here and got his feet underneath him as the President of UNT, the old days of being led the old way are gone.

But to the folks in other areas outside of Denton, they have zero reason to believe much has changed.

Cerebus · February 27, 2018

2 hours ago, Harry said:

It is easy to blame the fans.

It's easy to blame one thing. We've done that for years. I'm saying its not one thing.

A problem this big isn't about one thing, it is systematic. Fans are part of that system. Plenty of blame to go around.

The problem is that every single part is quick to blame something else. If we ever want to turn this thing around we for everyone to look deep down, see that they are part of the problem, and fix it. Fans included.

All I know is in the Dickey years the coaches and players got it done. Leadership and fans? Well I think the fans did better than leadership. In the Dodge years I think the fans stepped up. The coaches and leadership? Not so much. Even Mac was able to get us a bowl win, and then the next year season ticket sales went down.

I think these coaches and players are on the verge of having big success again. If the leadership and fans don't step up it will just be another wasted opportunity.

TreeFiddy · February 27, 2018

At the time, I uploaded a photo of the Independence bowl during the first half. USM looked like they had way less than 10k fans in the stands. I think people are overestimating how many fans we would have had at a mid week game at 1pm outside in crappy weather.

Most all of the G5 bowl options are pretty crappy from either a calendar, destination, or opponent standpoint.

BTG_Fan1 · February 28, 2018

14 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

it is.... Just sayin" I am hoping, and can actually see the results, the WB and this administration are moving the needle to on-board a stronger fan base.... We just need to get the students to buy in long term.....

Students did, when they voted to increase the fee... now it’s on Alumni to increase the donations and complete the IPF donations.

Ben Gooding · February 28, 2018

19 hours ago, Cerebus said:

It's easy to blame one thing. We've done that for years. I'm saying its not one thing.

A problem this big isn't about one thing, it is systematic. Fans are part of that system. Plenty of blame to go around.

The problem is that every single part is quick to blame something else. If we ever want to turn this thing around we for everyone to look deep down, see that they are part of the problem, and fix it. Fans included.

All I know is in the Dickey years the coaches and players got it done. Leadership and fans? Well I think the fans did better than leadership. In the Dodge years I think the fans stepped up. The coaches and leadership? Not so much. Even Mac was able to get us a bowl win, and then the next year season ticket sales went down.

I think these coaches and players are on the verge of having big success again. If the leadership and fans don't step up it will just be another wasted opportunity.

This is not on the fans. Anyone that paid any attention at all at that coaching regime knew the wheels were wobbling during the 2013 season. It was very, very easy to see.

Just win more than you lose, be competitive in your losses and a fan base with pride will grow. People that are sports fans are prideful people. They are typically competitive people. These type of people are not going to stand by and watch their team get drug through the mud year in and year out. We can't catch lighting in a bottle for a couple years (Or in your analogy, 1 year) and just expect 31K at Apogee every Saturday. Sustainability has to be the expectation.

Cerebus · February 28, 2018

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

This is not on the fans.

Didn't say that was on the fans. Leadership to blame IMHO.

untjim1995 · February 28, 2018

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

This is not on the fans. Anyone that paid any attention at all at that coaching regime knew the wheels were wobbling during the 2013 season. It was very, very easy to see.

Just win more than you lose, be competitive in your losses and a fan base with pride will grow. People that are sports fans are prideful people. They are typically competitive people. These type of people are not going to stand by and watch their team get drug through the mud year in and year out. We can't catch lighting in a bottle for a couple years (Or in your analogy, 1 year) and just expect 31K at Apogee every Saturday. Sustainability has to be the expectation.

While I do think the 2013 recruiting showed very little promise, the actual on-field results and what appeared to be solid coaching were great signs. And we had that great rival of UNT, SMU, on the home schedule for 2014.

So why the DROP in season tickets? It wasn't because of the recruiting stuff or "wobbling" of the coaching staff. It was because the AD was a freaking lazy idiot. That entire department couldn't peel a banana correctly under his direction. So many people had problems with their accounts and ticket purchases. Literally, every week back then, we would have people complaining about some issue(s) that the AD had caused. IOW, they were always working on fixing problems than actually working to get season ticket holders re-upped or to get new ones involved. There was no new graduate program for season tickets at a discounted rate. And when you did interact with the AD and staff, it was completely obvious that you weren't a part of the UNT 17,s o you didn't really matter much.

As Wren Baker continues to learn and grow as an AD here, it just shows you how refreshing it is to see someone who actually is TRYING. Sure, the BOR and administration have given him more than RV ever got, no doubt. But maybe if RV didn't just sit around and act like a bump on a log, as the Old Denton mindset of only paying $300k for a head coach in football and men's basketball was in play, perhaps things could have been different for him, too. But he found the easy (lazy) path by just squeezing 17 people as hard as possible to get the stuff done that the BOR wouldn't cover back then. Eventually, the fallacy of making your job security insulated with 17 big donors came to its obvious end, as you cannot suffer colossal losing and buying out of major contracts in the three main revenue sports he made the hires for. That loss to Portland State, while completely embarrassing beyond words, was the point where we hit rock bottom as an institution regarding football. From then on, the football coach, AD, and mens basketball staff have all gotten fixed with solid replacements that have made the previous people in those spots look ridiculous for having ever been in those spots for so long.

The fans have shown that they will come out in football if you start winning and are playing someone that people have heard of. Basketball had shown that same thing in the latter JJ years, so I think McCasland will see the same thing if he can get this thing completely turned around like we think he can. When that last part happens, and assuming that SL or whoever follows him when he gets hired away continues to win here, WB will have the choice of jobs ahead of him higher on the food chain--and he will ever deserved those opportunities in every way.

GrandGreen · February 28, 2018

Leadership is all to blame.

You can't force people to be fans. I wonder about those, that call out any group, whether it is students, staff, City and local area residents, or alumni. The vast number of people that are in those groups, don't read NT message boards or could be bothered with NT sports.

If you want to cast blame on one administration, that is easy; Hurley. I think his 18 years at the helm, hurt NT surely in athletics, but also his basic take no chances style significantly hindered NT's overall progress.

He came in after the pro-athletic Jitter Nolan and seems content with NT's reassignment to 1AA. Many including me believe that didn't have to happen. The plan was to dominate 1AA football and become a power in basketball, neither happened. That long period in football exile just about killed any interest in NT football.

Hurley was followed by Pohl, who was much more pro-athletic than Hurley. However, any gains he made in athletics were minimal. He failed to recognize what a liability his AD was.

Bataille, came next and I am not sure how much of the above about her athletic decisions were true. It was clear that athletics had little priority in her NT career. Again RV continued on, despite little advancement of the athletic program. RV always seemed to circulate excuses for his bad hires, IMO he is totally responsible.

Next, Rawlins; who I believe begin to turn things around. Again, unbelievably he retained RV; he did however significantly increase the funding of athletics at NT. The hiring of McCarney signaled the turnaround of athletics at NT. He was a bad hire based on results, but it was not because he was a bargain hire like almost all his predecessors at NT.

Smatresk has not only demonstrated he is pro-athletic, but has build NT into an athletic program that should be at the top of CUSA. He was the fifth president, RV served under. Truly, amazing; you have to give RV survival credit. I don't blame RV, it is the administrations that hired and kept extending new employment contracts.

RV was never ready for his position at NT and his continued employment at NT continued to hold NT back for 15 years. This combined with the Hurley reign are the two leadership factors that have most hindered NT athletics.

It should be noted that the BOR is probably more important than the presidents in athletic status. So good or bad the BOR is a partner in the progress.