Proposed California Law Would Ban Tackle Football Before High School

[oldguystudent]

This should be an interesting discussion. 

As for the "before high school" part, the linked article doesn't specify an age that defines "children."  Everything merely says "children" while some say "minors."  

I found one video out of a local Fox affiliate that specified not before high school, so that's what I'm going with. 

Link

[Hunter Green]

I think before middle school would be reasonable.

[NorthTexan95]

9 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

I think before middle school would be reasonable.

I agree but it would be more reasonable to just leave the decision to the parents. 

[peanuts104]

This matter should be left for parents to decide, not the state.   If kids want to play tackle football, they'll play it whether in a league or in someone's backyard.

[Wag Tag]

Most athletics is coming from the state through school athletics. I can understand the strategy behind the move. If schools dropped it then outside leagues would pick it up. 

[UNTLifer]

From a developmental standpoint, 7th grade is a good starting point.  

As to the reason of this proposed ban, tackling isn't the issue, not tackling correctly is the issue.  I don't see the same issue with rugby or Australian rules football.  Why?  The players aren't geared up like a knight heading in to a joust.

[FirefightnRick]

You can't play for a public school till 9th grade in Georgia. I'm sure other states are the same.

 

Rick

[oldguystudent]

12 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

You can't play for a public school till 9th grade in Georgia. I'm sure other states are the same.

 

Rick

Can you still play in Texas?  There was most definitely middle school football in Lewisville when my daughter was in middle school.  I think it started at seventh grade.  That was four years ago. 

[El Paso Eagle]

3 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

This should be an interesting discussion. 

As for the "before high school" part, the linked article doesn't specify an age that defines "children."  Everything merely says "children" while some say "minors."  

I found one video out of a local Fox affiliate that specified not before high school, so that's what I'm going with. 

Link

Being California, you could hand them a flower to end the play. Instead of the players not in the game being on the sidelines they could have designated "safe spaces" where players from either team could go.

All kidding aside, I see this as a way to reduce cost and liability and call it "being safety conscious". If they put it to the voters, fine. But cutting to save cost while the state continues to mandate regulation after regulation is another thing.

 

[North Texas Shep]

Flag before middle school should be enforced everywhere. There are some great pee wee coaches out but many of them a little big men who don't understand a damn thing about injury protocol. A program with in the school is a little more to a lor more reliable. 

[Rudy]

5 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

From a developmental standpoint, 7th grade is a good starting point.  

As to the reason of this proposed ban, tackling isn't the issue, not tackling correctly is the issue.  I don't see the same issue with rugby or Australian rules football.  Why?  The players aren't geared up like a knight heading in to a joust.

As states above, 6th or 7th, whichever grade begins middle school for that particular district would be a good start.  In children, the shoulder joints aren't fully developed until around age 12. 

 

However, I think the biggest safety issue is to teach, and enforce/encourage proper tackling. 

[GrandGreen]

If you see some of the coaches involved in youth football, you could easily see the need for this type of legislation.   

When I played ages ago there was no youth football, so everyone basically started at the same time in the seventh grade.   Most research I have seen actually supports delaying tackle football to about the same age range. 

 

[peanuts104]

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

If you see some of the coaches involved in youth football, you could easily see the need for this type of legislation.  

 

I don't easily see the need for legislation.  Tell me why this has to be a codified law.  Tell me why this can't easily be handled by common sense parenting and PSAs.   Why are people so law happy.  Just make a law, that fixes all the problems, right?

[GrandGreen]

21 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

I don't easily see the need for legislation.  Tell me why this has to be a codified law.  Tell me why this can't easily be handled by common sense parenting and PSAs.   Why are people so law happy.  Just make a law, that fixes all the problems, right?

You are exactly right if every parent made good decisions, and the PSA's ( I'm guessing here is some type of sports agency) were ran by these people than there would be little need for more protection.  

[FirefightnRick]

9 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

Can you still play in Texas?  There was most definitely middle school football in Lewisville when my daughter was in middle school.  I think it started at seventh grade.  That was four years ago. 

Yes.

Im torn on this subject.  I played at 10.  But I had great coaches at 10.  So beuse of that I let the F5 play at 10 cause I didn't want him to get his ass whipped by the time he got to the 7th grade, like we did the new kids when I was in 7th grade.  I felt so sorry for those knew kids.

Anyhow, his 10 year old season turned out to be an absolute nightmare because of his coaches...and I nearly went to jail a couple of times over the lack of safety and the dangerous tactics  being taught .  

His 11 year old coach was awesome and redeemed my faith in youth football..  Since then he's had great coaches from 7th grade on up.  And this included a private session with the great Troy Kokjohn, teaching him proper snapping skills after his 7th grade season.

Unfortunately, He didn't grow by the time he hit his freshman year, and has been the smallest lineman in his age group.  His Freshman season I started a photo album on my Facebook page titled..."Messin With Sasquatch" because of his size disadvantage against much bigger players.    Yet he was the starting center on the A team that year, his freshman year, and has started every year ever since.  Anyone who knows him knows how ridiculously small he is for an O lineman, but he's tough and does his job against the bigs, and had a great JV season this past year on a team that went 8-2. 

I contribute his toughness and success to an early start, and that of great coaches from 6th grade on up teaching him proper technique and the importance of job responsibility.  He lives for making his QB and backs look good.  That sounds strange.....but that's what he says?

I guess I'd have to say it's all up to the parents assuring that their kids play for good coaches who know their trade and know what the hell theyre doing...and not some fly-by-nighter weekend want-to-be..

BTW...I apologize ahead of time....but I'm just a little proud of #60 below.

 

 

Rick

Edited February 19, 2018 by FirefightnRick

[NT93]

My son started in 4th grade, which was a year sooner than I planned to let him start.  I was a little hesitant about him playing , but as it worked out, there's not a lot of hard hitting going on in 4th/5th grade.  That being said, the size difference between kids can be pretty significant at that age.  One of my son's friend who weighed about 60lbs was tackled by a kid who weighed about 160 and broke his femur.  Freak deal, but just snapped it.  I was the first one out to help him and it's a moment I'll never forget...and it probably colors my opinion.

Honestly, I would probably be okay with no tackle until 7th grade.  

To add another level to the discussion, what effect would that have on high school football?  I'm thinking the playing field would be leveled somewhat if everyone started in the 7th grade.

Edited February 19, 2018 by NT93

[UNTLifer]

4 hours ago, Rudy said:

As states above, 6th or 7th, whichever grade begins middle school for that particular district would be a good start.  In children, the shoulder joints aren't fully developed until around age 12. 

 

However, I think the biggest safety issue is to teach, and enforce/encourage proper tackling. 

Where did you hear that about the shoulder joint?

Edited February 19, 2018 by UNTLifer

[Rudy]

55 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Where did you hear that about the shoulder joint?

Kinesiology classes. Don't remember specifically which one. 

[Hunter Green]

19 hours ago, peanuts104 said:

This matter should be left for parents to decide, not the state.   If kids want to play tackle football, they'll play it whether in a league or in someone's backyard.

Agreed, but the helmets make the difference. My son played Pee Wee football for just a short time and at that age didn't like the collisions. He played baseball for years until he reached middle school where he became a superstar. Flag football can teach kids the game without the inherent dangers of concussion. Plus, a lot of Pee Wee FB coaches think they're playing for the Super Bowl where the emphasis is on winning instead of teaching them the game.

[FirefightnRick]

37 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

Agreed, but the helmets make the difference. 

Speaking of,.....I highly recommend Xenith.  They can be a bit pricey ($140-$285), but they are the most comfortable helmet I've ever worn and my son loves both of his he's worn from 8th grade thru 11th.  It's performed pretty well.

If anyone needs one in the adult sizes Carey's Sporting goods on Cherry St in Fort Worth has them.

 

Rick

[oldguystudent]

59 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

Plus, a lot of Pee Wee FB coaches think they're playing for the Super Bowl where the emphasis is on winning instead of teaching them the game.

I took my daughter out of 6-year-old tee ball because of how insanely serious they were about it -- and they weren't even to the point of keeping score yet! 

Meanwhile, in my neighborhood, they had 5-year-old (I think it was five, not sure, but it was young) football practices in officially licensed Longhorn uniforms with coaches yelling at crying kids. I couldn't imagine subjecting a son to that.  I thought childhood, particularly at that young age, was supposed to be somewhat fun. 

[Cerebus]

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that more and more evidence is showing that the main cause of CTE isn't the concussions.  It's just repeated high energy (but not concussive) hits that cause the brain to be affected. 

In any given year, about 70% of all football players in the US are in middle school or younger.    Every year those kids are taking dozens and dozens of those high impact hits.  Shaving years off their eligibility shaves hundreds and hundreds of those hits off their brain.   Tiny Mites start at age 5.  Yes, they are tiny kids not generating a lot of force, but their tiny brains are still taking those hits because their tiny bodies can't distribute/absorb the force as well.  

 

[UNTLifer]

12 hours ago, Rudy said:

Kinesiology classes. Don't remember specifically which one. 

Really curious about this.  Check your PM

[UNTexas]

Good thing the government wants to interject itself into even more parts of our lives. Free country my ass...

Also, baseball has the highest death rate amongst kids, let's ban baseball too.

[GrandGreen]

30 minutes ago, UNTexas said:

Good thing the government wants to interject itself into even more parts of our lives. Free country my ass...

Also, baseball has the highest death rate amongst kids, let's ban baseball too.

Sure there are more people playing baseball that die as a direct result of a recent injury; a really small number.  However, the long term effects of football injuries that are becoming more and more evident are a much worse problem.  

This is ultimately a parent or guardian decision and it is a tough one.  My personal opinion is that full contact sports should be delayed until the body is more developed.  The basic counter argument is that that kids that don't play earlier are at a big disadvantage if they play at a later date and are much more prone to serious injury at that time than more experienced players.  

Edited February 19, 2018 by GrandGreen