More on the Mean Green Athletics Fee

[Harry]

http://www.meangreensports.com/athleticfee/

[Mike Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

http://www.meangreensports.com/athleticfee/

If the students can’t get on board with still being below Texas State and UTSA in athletic fees.....  Never mind I will stay positive.

[Wag Tag]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

http://www.meangreensports.com/athleticfee/

Gidder done! GMG 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Wag Tag

[BTG_Fan1]

This is better than them not putting out anything last semester.. get the information out there and inform the students!

[Tyler Maryak]

Probably gonna get railed for this one, but let me play Devil's Advocate here, because I am a big proponent of understanding "the other side's" argument, even if you don't agree with it. I didn't put in the time to make a pretty infographic, but consider the information. Currently, the tuition at UNT is higher than that of Texas State and UTSA (since those are the universities selected in the athletics graphic) and overall cost of attendance is pretty close for all three. Looking at the bigger picture, the cost of attending college is growing at a rate that far exceeds the inflation for other "commodities." 

Someone previously said that the athletics fee is the only one that students have the ability to control, I believe to suggest that they shouldn't be able to control it. I'm no libertarian, but I would argue the opposite - students should have more say on where money can be spent. I know an 18 year old isn't a CFO with decades of experience, but a college degree is seen as being damn-near a requirement to get a job (why not technical skills? that's a whole other can of worms). It is more and more expensive to go to college and there is one tiny piece that I, Joe Collegestudent, can control. I should absolutely weigh the cost and benefits and not just jump on board with paying more because UTSA can gargle my jubblies (they can, btw). 

For the record, I really hope the fee increase passes because I believe that, for better or for worse, our society measures the value of a degree by the university's athletic prowess and I want my degree to be seen as prestigious. However, if I were in school and I didn't believe that, you best believe I would fight tooth and nail to keep costs down to get the best value for my degree. Shift money, sure, but don't just keep charging me more and more so we can (being cynical, here) pay our coach $1.11M instead of $1.09M.

ALL THIS TO SAY: I won't be cursing UNT students for fools if this doesn't pass.

Institution	Tuition and Fees	Books and Supplies	Room and Board	Transportation	Other Costs	Total

Texas State University
Resident	$10,620	$770	$8,420	$1,880	$1,570	$23,260
Nonresident	$23,060	$770	$8,420	$1,880	$1,570	$35,700

The University of Texas at San Antonio
Resident	$10,013	$1,500	$9,558	$2,760	$1,836	$25,667
Nonresident	$23,263	$1,500	$9,558	$2,760	$1,836	$38,917

University of North Texas
Resident	$11,296	$1,000	$8,200	$2,260	$2,158	$24,914
Nonresident	$24,106	$1,000	$8,200	$2,260	$2,158	$37,724

Sources: http://www.collegeforalltexans.com/apps/collegecosts.cfm?Type=1&Level=1
http://www.stsw.com/2014/09/yet-another-post-trying-to-answer-if.html

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Tyler Maryak

[Ben Gooding]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Maryak said:

Probably gonna get railed for this one, but let me play Devil's Advocate here, because I am a big proponent of understanding "the other side's" argument, even if you don't agree with it. I didn't put in the time to make a pretty infographic, but consider the information. Currently, the tuition at UNT is higher than that of Texas State and UTSA (since those are the universities selected in the athletics graphic) and overall cost of attendance is pretty close for all three. Looking at the bigger picture, the cost of attending college is growing at a rate that far exceeds the inflation for other "commodities." 

Someone previously said that the athletics fee is the only one that students have the ability to control, I believe to suggest that they shouldn't be able to control it. I'm no libertarian, but I would argue the opposite - students should have more say on where money can be spent. I know an 18 year old isn't a CFO with decades of experience, but a college degree is seen as being damn-near a requirement to get a job (why not technical skills? that's a whole other can of worms). It is more and more expensive to go to college and there is one tiny piece that I, Joe Collegestudent, can control. I should absolutely weigh the cost and benefits and not just jump on board with paying more because UTSA can gargle my jubblies (they can, btw). 

For the record, I really hope the fee increase passes because I believe that, for better or for worse, our society measures the value of a degree by the university's athletic prowess and I want my degree to be seen as prestigious. However, if I were in school and I didn't believe that, you best believe I would fight tooth and nail to keep costs down to get the best value for my degree. Shift money, sure, but don't just keep charging me more and more so we can (being cynical, here) pay our coach $1.11M instead of $1.09M.

ALL THIS TO SAY: I won't be cursing UNT students for fools if this doesn't pass.

Institution	Tuition and Fees	Books and Supplies	Room and Board	Transportation	Other Costs	Total

Texas State University
Resident	$10,620	$770	$8,420	$1,880	$1,570	$23,260
Nonresident	$23,060	$770	$8,420	$1,880	$1,570	$35,700

The University of Texas at San Antonio
Resident	$10,013	$1,500	$9,558	$2,760	$1,836	$25,667
Nonresident	$23,263	$1,500	$9,558	$2,760	$1,836	$38,917

University of North Texas
Resident	$11,296	$1,000	$8,200	$2,260	$2,158	$24,914
Nonresident	$24,106	$1,000	$8,200	$2,260	$2,158	$37,724

Sources: http://www.collegeforalltexans.com/apps/collegecosts.cfm?Type=1&Level=1
http://www.stsw.com/2014/09/yet-another-post-trying-to-answer-if.html

 

I can't argue with any of this. If the athletic department and the University wants to get serious about something like, then they should contemplate pulling back elsewhere to push forward with this. It would be a win-win for all. But that means the University somewhere would have to be understanding about this. 

[oldguystudent]

18 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I can't argue with any of this. If the athletic department and the University wants to get serious about something like, then they should contemplate pulling back elsewhere to push forward with this. It would be a win-win for all. But that means the University somewhere would have to be understanding about this. 

This is by far the most sensible thing you've had to say about this topic.  I'd be totally down with such a plan. 

[Ben Gooding]

4 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

This is by far the most sensible thing you've had to say about this topic.  I'd be totally down with such a plan. 

Lemme get that +1...

[Wag Tag]

I think we can all agree that UNT has stepped up in financing athletics. The IPF is a 50% match by UNT would be one example. Like you mentioned in your last paragraph athletic success brings value to the degree through recognition of the university.

[greenminer]

I think I read somewhere that the rising cost of tuition+fees - in Texas, anyways - has to do with decreasing support/funding from the state.

You may be right, I just want to suggest that the rising costs are not just because of decisions made within UNT's control.

[Tyler Maryak]

35 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I think I read somewhere that the rising cost of tuition+fees - in Texas, anyways - has to do with decreasing support/funding from the state.

You may be right, I just want to suggest that the rising costs are not just because of decisions made within UNT's control.

If I remember correctly, it's that the amount the state provides per university is increasing at an annual rate less than it has in previous years. Of course, if you're fundraising for the university, you'll simply this to "the state is giving us less, so we need more from you." As a nonprofit fundraiser myself, I'm not dogging it - it works. And is all but necessary in an environment where higher education is treated as a commodity in a free market.

[Aquila_Viridis]

Young people generally don’t know very much about what’s good for them. That is why leadership is needed.

[Hunter Green]

39 minutes ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

Young people generally don’t know very much about what’s good for them. That is why leadership is needed.

Or for the overall good for the University.

[oldguystudent]

I want to hear stories of how you were passed over for a job or promotion in favor of somebody from a P5 school solely because they had a better football program. 

Our firm loves UNT grads because they have a reputation for coming in hungry to learn and succeed as opposed to can do no wrong entitled from some other schools.  There is one that we've stopped recruiting altogether because of the incessant entitled douchebag character of every one of their graduates we've ever brought in (none of whom made the cut). 

Surely we can't be the only employer in town who sees that and favors work ethic and drive over "I'm from X school.  Love me because we went to a big bowl game last year." 

[Ben Gooding]

15 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

I want to hear stories of how you were passed over for a job or promotion in favor of somebody from a P5 school solely because they had a better football program. 

Our firm loves UNT grads because they have a reputation for coming in hungry to learn and succeed as opposed to can do no wrong entitled from some other schools.  There is one that we've stopped recruiting altogether because of the incessant entitled douchebag character of every one of their graduates we've ever brought in (none of whom made the cut). 

Surely we can't be the only employer in town who sees that and favors work ethic and drive over "I'm from X school.  Love me because we went to a big bowl game last year." 

May I ask which university this is? 

[oldguystudent]

5 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

May I ask which university this is? 

Long odds, but potential liability issues cause me to be intentionally vague. 

[Ben Gooding]

3 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

Long odds, but potential liability issues cause me to be intentionally vague. 

I see

[Wag Tag]

3 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

I want to hear stories of how you were passed over for a job or promotion in favor of somebody from a P5 school solely because they had a better football program. 

Our firm loves UNT grads because they have a reputation for coming in hungry to learn and succeed as opposed to can do no wrong entitled from some other schools.  There is one that we've stopped recruiting altogether because of the incessant entitled douchebag character of every one of their graduates we've ever brought in (none of whom made the cut). 

Surely we can't be the only employer in town who sees that and favors work ethic and drive over "I'm from X school.  Love me because we went to a big bowl game last year." 

It really about name recognition! How many universities are out there you have never heard of? West Point NY knows UNT!

Edited February 9, 2018 by Wag Tag

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

1 hour ago, oldguystudent said:

Long odds, but potential liability issues cause me to be intentionally vague. 

can you spell it backwards??? LOL

[meangreanmick]

I respectfully disagree.  This argument presumes we need to cater to the lowest common denominator.   In my opinion, UNT shouldn’t be striving for the lowest common denominator in costs or academics.   You are letting students - a good portion of who probably won’t graduate from UNT, decide the fate of the university.   Leadership should decide what’s best for the university's future and if students don’t like it they have other lowest common denominator options.

 

 

21 hours ago, Tyler Maryak said:

Probably gonna get railed for this one, but let me play Devil's Advocate here, because I am a big proponent of understanding "the other side's" argument, even if you don't agree with it. I didn't put in the time to make a pretty infographic, but consider the information. Currently, the tuition at UNT is higher than that of Texas State and UTSA (since those are the universities selected in the athletics graphic) and overall cost of attendance is pretty close for all three. Looking at the bigger picture, the cost of attending college is growing at a rate that far exceeds the inflation for other "commodities." 

Someone previously said that the athletics fee is the only one that students have the ability to control, I believe to suggest that they shouldn't be able to control it. I'm no libertarian, but I would argue the opposite - students should have more say on where money can be spent. I know an 18 year old isn't a CFO with decades of experience, but a college degree is seen as being damn-near a requirement to get a job (why not technical skills? that's a whole other can of worms). It is more and more expensive to go to college and there is one tiny piece that I, Joe Collegestudent, can control. I should absolutely weigh the cost and benefits and not just jump on board with paying more because UTSA can gargle my jubblies (they can, btw). 

For the record, I really hope the fee increase passes because I believe that, for better or for worse, our society measures the value of a degree by the university's athletic prowess and I want my degree to be seen as prestigious. However, if I were in school and I didn't believe that, you best believe I would fight tooth and nail to keep costs down to get the best value for my degree. Shift money, sure, but don't just keep charging me more and more so we can (being cynical, here) pay our coach $1.11M instead of $1.09M.

ALL THIS TO SAY: I won't be cursing UNT students for fools if this doesn't pass.

Institution	Tuition and Fees	Books and Supplies	Room and Board	Transportation	Other Costs	Total

Texas State University
Resident	$10,620	$770	$8,420	$1,880	$1,570	$23,260
Nonresident	$23,060	$770	$8,420	$1,880	$1,570	$35,700

The University of Texas at San Antonio
Resident	$10,013	$1,500	$9,558	$2,760	$1,836	$25,667
Nonresident	$23,263	$1,500	$9,558	$2,760	$1,836	$38,917

University of North Texas
Resident	$11,296	$1,000	$8,200	$2,260	$2,158	$24,914
Nonresident	$24,106	$1,000	$8,200	$2,260	$2,158	$37,724

Sources: http://www.collegeforalltexans.com/apps/collegecosts.cfm?Type=1&Level=1
http://www.stsw.com/2014/09/yet-another-post-trying-to-answer-if.html

 

 

 

 

 

[MGNation92]

2 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

Long odds, but potential liability issues cause me to be intentionally vague. 

Does the school's mascot happen to be of the equestrian variety? Particularly of a young age? Maybe with hints of cardinal and indigo in their color scheme? 

[Tyler Maryak]

58 minutes ago, meangreanmick said:

I respectfully disagree.  This argument presumes we need to cater to the lowest common denominator.   In my opinion, UNT shouldn’t be striving for the lowest common denominator in costs or academics.   You are letting students - a good portion of who probably won’t graduate from UNT, decide the fate of the university.   Leadership should decide what’s best for the university's future and if students don’t like it they have other lowest common denominator options.

 

That's fair. I'd like to go into why the current mentality about what is best for a university is problematic, but that'd take us into a completely different conversation that would have to be moved off this forum. And as much as I like pie, I primarily come here to see gifs of Fine > Guyton in peoples' signatures.

[DentonLurker]

1 hour ago, MEANGREENCOACH2 said:

can you spell it backwards??? LOL

UMS..... Lemme guess

[letsgiveacheer]

After running non--profit organizations for almost twenty years, I have learned that the best way to get people to buy into a program is to tell them how they will benefit from making a donation.

If I were to receive a solicitation with the heading: "Building Champions , Preparing Leaders",  the first thing I would ask myself is, "let's see, we have about 250 student athletes and an athletic budget of 30 million. Gosh, we are spending over 100k per student and they still want more?" 

Unless this increase can be sold as a benefit to the students, I suspect the UNT vote will meet the same fate as that of UTSA.

Edited February 9, 2018 by letsgiveacheer

[Ben Gooding]

52 minutes ago, letsgiveacheer said:

After running non--profit organizations for almost twenty years, I have learned that the best way to get people to buy into a program is to tell them how they will benefit from making a donation.

If I were to receive a solicitation with the heading: "Building Champions , Preparing Leaders",  the first thing I would ask myself is, "let's see, we have about 250 student athletes and an athletic budget of 30 million. Gosh, we are spending over 1M per student and they still want more?" 

Unless this increase can be sold as a benefit to the students, I suspect the UNT vote will meet the same fate as that of UTSA.