SBC Bowl Season

outoftown · January 4, 2018

11 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

If you think markets are the driving force today in television let me direct you to the most recent CUSA or contract or point out that AAC has the largest "market footprint" of any Division I league and they still don't have a deal as rich at the Big East deal that doesn't include football.

Halfway (dis)agreeing with aquila there: I think you are right when you say it is not about market size in the old tv kind of thinking way. However I believe school size, as in student and alumni numbers etc will matter in the future. Attendance is declining across CFB, yet we can all see that it is actually becoming a more central part of the revenue at G5s as the tv dollars are declining even faster. If you have more students and alumni you are less vulnerable to that decline because you can live with a smaller percentage of your students and alumni supporting the program.

Moreover there is just some sort of cultural fit that connects big science oriented public schools, the same way there is some sort of cultural fit that connects small private schools. I have this feeling that after a few years of perception adjustment, a conference completely full of small privates and devoid of large schools would become completely donor dependent while a conference full of large public schools would be just fine.

Mike Jackson · January 4, 2018

On 12/31/2017 at 4:55 PM, NT93 said:

This is pretty much why I didn't want to play Troy. There are many P5's out there that I'd rather play than Troy because we had a better chance of winning AND winning would have opened some eyes. Troy was a no win situation. Beat them and no one's impressed lose to them and...well you see what happens, especially when you get taken out behind the woodshed. (And don't get me wrong, I think there are several teams that Troy would have taken to the woodshed, but most of America doesn't know that.)

Absolutely spot on that is why going to the New Orleans Bowl was a bad decision. The post bowl Beyond the Green did an excellent PR job. However this beat down by Troy will have a negative effect on recruits, FBS fans and media not familiar with UNT. Marketing should be the first concern when trying to schedule a Bowl game for UNT right now. You can’t market a beat down loss to a Sun Belt team.

UNTLifer · January 4, 2018

13 hours ago, FAU Connoisseur said:

Who needs Troy in their conference when you have Marshall. If you're breathing you're in and more than questionable recruiting practices.

Lane Kiffin is your head coach, correct?

UNTLifer · January 4, 2018

2 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

You can’t market a beat down loss to a Sun Belt team.

You don't. You market a young, nine win team with the conference player of the year leading the way.

Arkstfan · January 4, 2018

11 hours ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

I don’t even think of it about markets or TV. I do think where can we get to easy on flights, who has the best programs for us to play, and in my best dreams I think we should align with the places like South Florida, Houston, San Diego etc. that nominally represent a geographic place that is a populous area. It would make sense for all those kinds of places that are presently spread across 3 conferences. But I don’t say that because of market. It would just be a good defining conference identity, something all 3 of those conferences lack currently. Short of something like that, if we can’t get in AAC, then we need to get in MW ASAP, and obviously that does not involve just a bus ride. It sounds like a challenge cause of lack of TV monies, but those schools will make it happen and so can we.

MWC is threatening to go all digital because they recognize the probability of getting a haircut from a deal made with carriage fee based video distributors.

They are looking at a system where revenue will be based on ads sold to viewers and fans willing to subscribe (possibly).

Fans will be driving their system if they go that way.

The idea that say Georgia State "represents" Atlanta or San Jose "represents" their metro by virtue of merely being present in the market is laughable.

GMG24 · January 4, 2018

1 minute ago, Arkstfan said:

MWC is threatening to go all digital because they recognize the probability of getting a haircut from a deal made with carriage fee based video distributors.

They are looking at a system where revenue will be based on ads sold to viewers and fans willing to subscribe (possibly).

Fans will be driving their system if they go that way.

The idea that say Georgia State "represents" Atlanta or San Jose "represents" their metro by virtue of merely being present in the market is laughable.

Couldn't agree more with your last few lines. Will they make each school maintain same quality? My least favorite thing about CUSA tv streaming is some schools do a GREAT job aside from homer announcers ( I can deal with that) and some, UTEP, Rice, etc do such a bad job it isn't worth the $ even though it's like 10 bucks or so for a day pass.

Arkstfan · January 4, 2018

8 hours ago, outoftown said:

Halfway (dis)agreeing with aquila there: I think you are right when you say it is not about market size in the old tv kind of thinking way. However I believe school size, as in student and alumni numbers etc will matter in the future. Attendance is declining across CFB, yet we can all see that it is actually becoming a more central part of the revenue at G5s as the tv dollars are declining even faster. If you have more students and alumni you are less vulnerable to that decline because you can live with a smaller percentage of your students and alumni supporting the program.

Moreover there is just some sort of cultural fit that connects big science oriented public schools, the same way there is some sort of cultural fit that connects small private schools. I have this feeling that after a few years of perception adjustment, a conference completely full of small privates and devoid of large schools would become completely donor dependent while a conference full of large public schools would be just fine.

Large alumni numbers ain't going to hurt. It still will come down to converting those alums into viewers and ticket buyers which is going to become harder as more and more of enrollment starts coming from online students.

I don't know that the future bodes well for a Tulsa, Rice, SMU, Tulane private because they not only turn out few alumni they typically aren't well embraced by the t-shirt fans.

In LA I ran into numerous people who were USC fans who've never attended a class at USC, that's something Tulane, Rice and SMU once had and don't have today, partly because of the NFL and partly because state colleges started getting serious about intercollegiate athletics.

But those schools that aren't creating fans are going to be in a very tough place when your revenue is directly tied to actual viewers and subscribers.

Arkstfan · January 4, 2018

9 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Couldn't agree more with your last few lines. Will they make each school maintain same quality? My least favorite thing about CUSA tv streaming is some schools do a GREAT job aside from homer announcers ( I can deal with that) and some, UTEP, Rice, etc do such a bad job it isn't worth the $ even though it's like 10 bucks or so for a day pass.

And that's the huge question.

Sun Belt has six schools that produce content using the ESPN standards. The remainder aren't there. AState this year was contracted by ESPN3 to produce the Sun Belt volleyball and soccer championships and provided a large portion of ESPN's Liberty Bowl production crew.

But I also remember watching a stream out of Monroe for football that had a single camera and no announcer and every few plays they would swing the camera over to point it at the scoreboard to give you the score and time. Hell UALR lost an AD from a stream like that of women's soccer. The camera microphone was on and picked up the sound of the AD talking about the mom of one of the players having nice tits.

Absent a promise of similar embarrassing comments I'm not paying to watch a crap telecast.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Arkstfan

Censored by Laurie · January 5, 2018

"hey...look at that tree"

- guy in forest

VideoEagle · January 6, 2018

On 1/4/2018 at 10:45 AM, Arkstfan said:

Hell UALR lost an AD from a stream like that of women's soccer. The camera microphone was on and picked up the sound of the AD talking about the mom of one of the players having nice tits.

An AD that stupid should be fired. ALWAYS assume any microphone is on a recording, even cellphones around you!

GrandGreen · January 6, 2018

The future will belong to the top P5's as it does now. I have given up on the NCAA ever passing regulations that would reduce costs or even the rapid escalation of those costs.

The G5's that survive will be the ones with the deepest pockets that basically can fund a program out of student tuition and fees, state support in some states and donations. Revenue from games as it is now, will be a relatively small secondary source of revenue for those programs. On campus broadcasts will continue to improve which is both a good and bad development. It will spread the school brand and hopefully keep alumni attention but will also diminish attendance. Views may replace attendance as a key statistic.

Arkstfan · January 9, 2018

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:44 AM, GrandGreen said:

The future will belong to the top P5's as it does now. I have given up on the NCAA ever passing regulations that would reduce costs or even the rapid escalation of those costs.

The G5's that survive will be the ones with the deepest pockets that basically can fund a program out of student tuition and fees, state support in some states and donations. Revenue from games as it is now, will be a relatively small secondary source of revenue for those programs. On campus broadcasts will continue to improve which is both a good and bad development. It will spread the school brand and hopefully keep alumni attention but will also diminish attendance. Views may replace attendance as a key statistic.

The NCAA's core mission is standardized playing rules, standardizing what financial assistance can be received (or not received) and run some post-season events.

Before the NCAA capped football scholarships, there was no cap and various conferences imposed limits on their members. If I remember right MoValley, Southland, MAC, PCAA/Big West were all at 70-75 caps when some leagues were capping at 100.

A vast amount of spending in college football is not about success or being competitive.

If Auburn wants your coach it doesn't matter if you are paying him $2 million or $200,000. I suspect quite a few coaches would leave a G5 for equal money in the P5 because of the prestige.

We are at the point where schools are building lockers out of expensive hardwood and putting in chairs with built in chargers and such, the power schools don't really know what to do with their money. Coaching salaries now are more about what the fans expect the school to pay than the value of the coach to the program.

Schools can moderate what they do. The average G5 program and all P5 could easily be run in the black if that were a goal significant to the leadership.

Aquila_Viridis · January 10, 2018

I don’t know how some places get to the point that college football success is so important they would pay an assistant coach $2 million a year. Some of the SEC and other schools have jumped the shark. I don’t even want to be in that club. But we better not play against teams like that either. And while I agree with moderation it’s not to the point of away games being a bus ride either.

It’s not about representing a market. It’s about representing a community. NT has done a terrible job connecting with the community, and it is a giant community. Maybe it’s getting better but there is a lot of ground to make up.

Arkstfan · January 10, 2018

14 hours ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

I don’t know how some places get to the point that college football success is so important they would pay an assistant coach $2 million a year. Some of the SEC and other schools have jumped the shark. I don’t even want to be in that club. But we better not play against teams like that either. And while I agree with moderation it’s not to the point of away games being a bus ride either.

It’s not about representing a market. It’s about representing a community. NT has done a terrible job connecting with the community, and it is a giant community. Maybe it’s getting better but there is a lot of ground to make up.

If a program is in the black, sure pay $2 million but borrowing or using school funds or billing the students to pay for it? That's ridiculous.

Troy1 · March 31, 2018

On 4.1.2018 at 3:36 AM, FAU Connoisseur said:

Who needs Troy in their conference when you have Marshall. If you're breathing you're in and more than questionable recruiting practices.

Hi Mean Green fans, I rewatched the bowl game a few days ago and decided to visit your board. Sorry, but I have to comment on this post.

Troy's past questionable recruiting practices are over. It is not even possible to oversign these days (NCAA and SBC would not allow it), and we only sign a few JUCOs every year now (and most of these JUCOs have three years of eligibility left). We paid a high price for our past recruiting tactics. We were low on scholarship numbers for a while and had to endure 4-5 subpar seasons because of this... we totally lost momentum.

Our head coach Neal Brown is doing it the right way (and when he took over the job from CLB, he stressed that he would recruit more in-state kids and sign mostly hs recruits instead of JUCOs). Actually we are signing more and more kids who also get offered by the service academies or schools like GA Tech, etc (this is getting better every year). We have a bunch of AL, FL, GA kids on our roster who had offers from schools like Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Purdue, GA Tech, Cal, UCLA, Texas, Illinois etc. One of our QBs (who might start next year) had offers from Syracuse and Air Force among others and our newest 2019 commit (RB) chose Troy over Cornell (and USM)... We also signed a TE this year who had offers from Harvard, Yale, Navy (and Kentucky, Miss St)...there are more examples like this.

There are some reasons for this: We have a pretty good coaching staff and pay them 2M a year. Further, major campus developments (new arena, new dining hall, new student recreation center, new dorms, etc), and later this year, we will open a brand new state-of-the-art fb facility (70,000sqft), and we have secured some nice home games vs Boise St, NC State, Miss St, etc - and of course, growing attendance numbers and winning also helps...many in-state kids who don't get offered by UA or AU still want to stay in the area - we benefit from this.

...sorry for the long post but FAU Con started this and this topic is too important (btw back in the days when FAU was in the SBC, Troy and FAU recruited the same type of (hs) players...)

Edited March 31, 2018 by Troy1

FAU Connoisseur · April 4, 2018

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 4:31 PM, Troy1 said:

...sorry for the long post but FAU Con started this and this topic is too important (btw back in the days when FAU was in the SBC, Troy and FAU recruited the same type of (hs) players...)

I know you are but what am I. If you were truly sorry you wouldn't have written such a long post defending your shady recruiting practices of the past...but the fact of the matter a conference is best when you have a bunch school with similar academic standards, which Troy does not have. Not saying FAU is some juggernaut in academia, but a school with no standards such as Troy has a competitive advantage. I like our current conference partners and any future additions that include Troy is a BIG no for me. Just my humble opinion which is not helped by your bending of the rules to the point of why have them with your gray shirting of the past.

Edited April 4, 2018 by FAU Connoisseur

Aldo · April 5, 2018

On 3/31/2018 at 3:31 PM, Troy1 said:

21 hours ago, FAU Connoisseur said:

Troy1 · April 8, 2018

On 4.4.2018 at 9:53 PM, FAU Connoisseur said:

... which is not helped by your bending of the rules to the point of why have them with your gray shirting of the past.

... just a reminder who your head coach is.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2012/11/16/tennessee-ncaa-added-penalties-lane-kiffin-willie-mack-garza/1709233/

https://jezebel.com/5426819/sex-sells-hostess-program-used-to-recruit-players

Edited April 8, 2018 by Troy1