Honest question

emmitt01 · December 18, 2017

I've seen it said here that this year was a pleasant surprise and the arrow for our program is pointed up. Some say Reffett should be given another year so that he can truly be responsible for the results. Everyone agrees that recruiting better is vital to continuing any momentum.

When Dickey fell off we said "he stopped recruiting." When Mac fell off we said "he stopped recruiting."

So let me ask, are you seeing the recruiting that you believe will keep us competing at the top of CUSA and avoid the humbling losses we saw this year? Bear in mind that we have seen exactly ZERO real game snaps from players like English who we assume will step in and make us more competitive.

Edited December 18, 2017 by emmitt01

Venson · December 18, 2017

I see recruiting as going in the right direction. I think we need to get rid a Scott Conley. I am sure he is a nice guy, but damn the guy graduated college in the 70s. Nothing wrong with when you graduated, but that tells me at his age he probably has very little understanding of kids today to be in charge of High School relations. Hell I am almost 20 years younger than him and I don't have much understanding of kids in high school today.

aztecskin · December 18, 2017

We missed on some defensive recruits -- the Juco LB, Hoston -- and English got hurt. Whatever you think of Reff, it is important to realize that last year's defense was worse in some areas. That one got worked over in the HOD by Army also, and was destroyed by La Tech, WKU, and MTSU.

This year's team had some notable collapses that were awful -- the FAU game in Oct especially -- but overall there was some improvement in run defense and in getting pressure on the QB. When we played good teams like Troy in this one, the lack of DL depth was the issue. We do not have a playmaking LB to replace even Fred Scott from last year.

Garner and Ejiya are solid. I don't know that they are on the level of Zach Orr, Derek Akunne et al.

---

In this particular game, I would say the defense did a solid job given the circumstances. The won the ball back twice and scored themselves. The offense gave it away 5 times and only put up 16 points before the garbage time TD. This season was all about winning shootouts and NT didn't bring enough gunpowder to this one.

peanuts104 · December 18, 2017

We have been sitting and ******** about recruiting for the past few coaches. Denton is a hard sale versus other programs. FAU has leftovers from FSU and UF. Texas leftovers? They go to other states. Why stay here when you could go make your name for a top tier program in another state if the top tier of Texas doesn't want you? Not that I agree, but I see the mindset of the potential Texas recruits that don't get picked up by the big Texas schools.

What that means is we need coaches that can DEVELOP players that want to develop into top tier talent. So far, with what we've seen from Fine and the receiving core, these coaches can develop players. It will not be an overnight change and it also could be a point of regression if the coaches can't push more from their younger players every year like they did this year(on offense, we regressed defensively).

Most agree that we have had historical issues recruiting. Don't fault SL and his staff in their SECOND DADGUM YEAR. Give them a chance to turn the corner. Even if they can't turn the corner in recruiting, give them a chance to develop the talent they get. This school is a tough sale, even with all the improvements. Fact of the matter is our school hasn't afforded the athletic department more than the leftovers of the budget for more than a decade and we have a lot of catching up to do. Our players still use ice baths. A lot of the P5 programs have those dadgum cryo chamber things now. I'm not dissing the ice bath, nor suggesting it as an investment (because we could put the money to better use), but how the **** do you compete with cryo chambers in a recruiting pitch?

Rudy · December 18, 2017

Denton is not a hard sell.

UNTLifer · December 18, 2017

I heard during the CUSA Championship and the bowl game that SL's goal was to recruit Denton and the 4 surrounding counties. I agree, but we have to keep our presence in East TX and southern OK. Too many good players in those areas get overlooked. Look at Wilson. Found in tiny Elkhart, TX.

peanuts104 · December 18, 2017

16 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Denton is not a hard sell.

It is self evident that it is. The fact that we haven't been able to recruit here consistently for decades makes it self evident.

untjim1995 · December 18, 2017

2 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

It is self evident that it is. The fact that we haven't been able to recruit here consistently for decades makes it self evident.

I don’t think Denton is a tough sell. I think North Texas and it’s apathy are the tough sell. We are a last resort often for TX HS recruits. TX HS Coaches and parents just don’t have any faith in us, even after we have had some decent years, like this one was. Now maybe SL and company finally change this, but my guess is that it won’t be this year. It’ll take another year of 9 wins to get that kind of bump upward.

peanuts104 · December 18, 2017

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

decent years

We were 1-11 two years ago. DMac had one winning season. Todd Dodge is a turd and so was Rick Villarreal. RV didn't even hire SL, they had some 3rd party coach evaluation service do his dadgum job. We have been mismanaged for decades. How dare you blame players for not wanting to take the risk on our school. I love this program but it is a damn hard sale, especially when you have students questioning whether they should shell out a tiny bit more to help fund the athletic department, enough so they postpone the dadgum results. DON'T TELL ME THIS ISN'T A HARD SALE.

NorthTexan95 · December 18, 2017

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

I've seen it said here that this year was a pleasant surprise and the arrow for our program is pointed up. Some say Reffett should be given another year so that he can truly be responsible for the results. Everyone agrees that recruiting better is vital to continuing any momentum.

When Dickey fell off we said "he stopped recruiting." When Mac fell off we said "he stopped recruiting."

So let me ask, are you seeing the recruiting that you believe will keep us competing at the top of CUSA and avoid the humbling losses we saw this year? Bear in mind that we have seen exactly ZERO real game snaps from players like English who we assume will step in and make us more competitive.

We're not seeing the results we would want but it is better. It's been reported that McCarney's staff did very little recruiting. This staff is doing a much better job of building relationships with high schools. Now they need to start bringing in bigger, faster, stronger players.

untjim1995 · December 18, 2017

Just now, peanuts104 said:

We were 1-11 two years ago. DMac had one winning season. Todd Dodge is a turd and so was Rick Villarreal. RV didn't even hire SL, they had some 3rd party coach evaluation service do his dadgum job. We have been mismanaged for decades. How dare you blame players for not wanting to take the risk on our school. I love this program but it is a damn hard sale, especially when you have students questioning whether they should shell out a tiny bit more to help fund the athletic department, enough so they postpone the dadgum results. DON'T TELL ME THIS ISN'T A HARD SALE.

Hey pal, I think you misread a lot of what I meant. I’m right there with you—on everything you posted.

outoftown · December 18, 2017

I honestly think UNTs got a coach who is a great schemer a decent evaluator and a great developer and a good motivator if he gets enough time with a kid. But he is not a good salesman in a 15 minutes talk or on social media and he seems to hate hiring salesmen as assistants, and the same was true to some degree for coach mac before him.

Coach Dodge couldn't develop and scheme and it is before me, but peoplle tell me coach Dickey had nothing in terms of facilities actually to sell to.

Conclusion: I don't believe its Denton. I even refuse to believe it is all on the perception of UNT. I believe recruiting is a skill a coaching staff has just the same as coaching but not necessarily overlapping (remember coach Benford?). And I believe coach Littrell needs to start hiring an assistant or two whose first and primary attribute has to be that they are great salesmen so he can flip more players when they have multiple offers. Coaches, not administrators is who recruits want to hear from in the end, this cannot be completely taken over by support staff, even if UNT could potentially do better there.

Edited December 18, 2017 by outoftown

peanuts104 · December 18, 2017

6 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Hey pal, I think you misread a lot of what I meant. I’m right there with you—on everything you posted.

I'm sorry I'm just angry and lashing out. And I wanted to make the points I made in my post. The compounding past failures are rapidly catching up and it is discomforting. And I do believe in Seth Littrell. I believe in the consistent improvement (on offense) that Seth Littrell has brought us. And I hate the thought that people here are questioning him after the success that we've had with him. Reffett is up in the air as far as I'm concerned (I have mixed feelings), but Seth Littrell hasn't done anything other than fight for his team's success with what he's had.

untjim1995 · December 18, 2017

1 minute ago, peanuts104 said:

I'm sorry I'm just angry and lashing out. And I wanted to make the points I made in my post. The compounding past failures are rapidly catching up and it is discomforting. And I do believe in Seth Littrell. I believe in the consistent improvement (on offense) that Seth Littrell has brought us. And I hate the thought that people here are questioning him after the success that we've had with him. Reffett is up in the air as far as I'm concerned (I have mixed feelings), but Seth Littrell hasn't done anything other than fight for his team's success with what he's had.

Completely in agreement with you on SL and his staff. I’m fairly confident that if we have another 9 win season in 2018, SL’s days in Denton will be over and he will move on up the FBS food chain.

Ben Gooding · December 26, 2017

On 12/17/2017 at 9:13 PM, emmitt01 said:

I've seen it said here that this year was a pleasant surprise and the arrow for our program is pointed up. Some say Reffett should be given another year so that he can truly be responsible for the results. Everyone agrees that recruiting better is vital to continuing any momentum.

When Dickey fell off we said "he stopped recruiting." When Mac fell off we said "he stopped recruiting."

So let me ask, are you seeing the recruiting that you believe will keep us competing at the top of CUSA and avoid the humbling losses we saw this year? Bear in mind that we have seen exactly ZERO real game snaps from players like English who we assume will step in and make us more competitive.

Defensively, no. Not even close. I mean the staff trying to patch defensive holes with JUCO guys tells you exactly what they think of their own defensive recruits they have brought in. We will need to continue to go 6-0 in 1 score games to maintain...And guess what, that's not happening. Defense has been neglected by this staff and the results are bleeding through. I can't fathom having a worse D next year, but that's a real possibility.

Offensively, we're able to out scheme the bad to mediocre teams. Vs good teams, we're not there.

In short, no. The answer is no.

GOMG2013 · December 26, 2017

The biggest improvement over the years is Seth's offensive scheme and finding a QB that can play D1 football. Gotta give Litrell credit for that. That is the major upgrade in player development and talent evaluation I have seen. There has also been a few other offensive pieces added to show that they know a little something about offense.

Now, we need the same for the defensive side. Since Littrell is considered an offensive mind and coach, he shouldn't be responsible for both sides of the ball. That is when you have to have a DC that can find talent and evaluate, like the offense has done. I do not see one sign where we are headed in the right direction on defense.

Ben Gooding · December 26, 2017

16 hours ago, GOMG2013 said:

The biggest improvement over the years is Seth's offensive scheme and finding a QB that can play D1 football. Gotta give Litrell credit for that. That is the major upgrade in player development and talent evaluation I have seen. There has also been a few other offensive pieces added to show that they know a little something about offense.

Now, we need the same for the defensive side. Since Littrell is considered an offensive mind and coach, he shouldn't be responsible for both sides of the ball. That is when you have to have a DC that can find talent and evaluate, like the offense has done. I do not see one sign where we are headed in the right direction on defense.

Credit does go to Littrell and bringing in any QB capable to play his system should be credited to Littrell. However, he is or very well should be held responsible and entirely responsible for both sides of the ball. He is the HC after all.