Players opinion on D coordinator

MGNation92 · December 18, 2017

Mr. Wheeler wasn't a fan of our hashtag:

It's funny, the players we have can't execute the scheme, so when we ask to change the scheme, we're wrong. If we can't change the scheme, the only other reasonable approach is changing the players by recruiting better, but we aren't exactly doing that either.

Basically our defense is in a death spiral of complacency and subpar results. Awesome.

untbowler · December 18, 2017

6 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Mr. Wheeler wasn't a fan of our hashtag:

It's funny, the players we have can't execute the scheme, so when we ask to change the scheme, we're wrong. If we can't change the scheme, the only other reasonable approach is changing the players by recruiting better, but we aren't exactly doing that either.

Basically our defense is in a death spiral of complacency and subpar results. Awesome.

If the players do not see the issue, then there are much bigger issues at play, the players should be embarrassed at having so many records put up against them, that even rival Mendoza like levels of suck

Cr1028 · December 18, 2017

53 minutes ago, untbowler said:

If the players do not see the issue, then there are much bigger issues at play, the players should be embarrassed at having so many records put up against them, that even rival Mendoza like levels of suck

That’s a special kind of suck and I think you may be exaggerating ever so slightly. Cosh approached and maybe eclipsed Mendoza levels of suck but Ref certainly has not. I’m all for expecting more but let’s not minimize how truly bad Mendoza’s defense was.

GMG24 · December 18, 2017

I'll probably get hammered for this, but the kids are right. The issue isn't scheme. The only issue I took with our defense was Corner play and the incredibly inconsistent coverage skills they displayed. I was losing my mind at the bowl game we continued to play 10-12 yards off and gave up an 8 yard out over and over and over. At some point you just press them and make them make a perfect throw and catch. Which they did one play for a TD.

In his final season at ULM, Reffett’s defense ranked among the top-20 nationally in passing yards allowed (189.9 ypg/14th), third-down conversion defense (0.326/11th) quarterback sacks (3.00 pg/13th) and tackles for lost yardage (7.5 pg/10th).

Same scheme he was running there.

I wish we would have looked at Brooks at some point, but I have a feeling he, Guyton, and Smith got in trouble bc Smith was limited in first quarter (if he even got in).

MGNation92 · December 18, 2017

10 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I'll probably get hammered for this, but the kids are right. The issue isn't scheme. The only issue I took with our defense was Corner play and the incredibly inconsistent coverage skills they displayed. I was losing my mind at the bowl game we continued to play 10-12 yards off and gave up an 8 yard out over and over and over. At some point you just press them and make them make a perfect throw and catch. Which they did one play for a TD.

In his final season at ULM, Reffett’s defense ranked among the top-20 nationally in passing yards allowed (189.9 ypg/14th), third-down conversion defense (0.326/11th) quarterback sacks (3.00 pg/13th) and tackles for lost yardage (7.5 pg/10th).

Same scheme he was running there.

I wish we would have looked at Brooks at some point, but I have a feeling he, Guyton, and Smith got in trouble bc Smith was limited in first quarter (if he even got in).

You ever think that Reffett might not have it anymore? Sure he had great defenses at ULM but at some point you gotta say "maybe this guy's the problem"

How does McClain go from being one of our best, to one of our most inconsistent? BG was one of our best linebackers, now, not so much. It seems the notion on this board that English is the end all be all for this defense is likely true in the locker room as well. I understand starters are starters for a reason, but if you can't have quality depth to run your defense, you change your defense.

We'll have a solid shot at winning 7+ games next year as long as the offense produces, but if they can't score 35+ a game, I'm afraid we're closer to a 5 win team next year.

You can be loved and cherished and believed in by your players/other coaches, but results speak for themselves. Reffett ain't at ULM anymore.

GMG24 · December 18, 2017

12 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

You ever think that Reffett might not have it anymore? Sure he had great defenses at ULM but at some point you gotta say "maybe this guy's the problem"

How does McClain go from being one of our best, to one of our most inconsistent? BG was one of our best linebackers, now, not so much. It seems the notion on this board that English is the end all be all for this defense is likely true in the locker room as well. I understand starters are starters for a reason, but if you can't have quality depth to run your defense, you change your defense.

We'll have a solid shot at winning 7+ games next year as long as the offense produces, but if they can't score 35+ a game, I'm afraid we're closer to a 5 win team next year.

You can be loved and cherished and believed in by your players/other coaches, but results speak for themselves. Reffett ain't at ULM anymore.

No doubt, and no argument here except for the fact that his scheme literally changed 0 from now to then. We have to recruit better players for sure, but McClain was asked to more or less tackle in the previous scheme. This scheme he was asked to be a true safety and cover as well as tackle. His coverage skills are not on par with the type of player he is for sure. We saved RS on a few young corners who can play. I'm definitely interested to see how the D turns out next year. I think Reff should be told Defense needs to improve, but when running this type of offense, your defense will sputter at times. IE FAU first game, offense had ball for about 2 minutes between two drives and Defense had no time to talk/adjust before they're right back on field giving up another score. Not an excuse just a reality.

Yes I AGREE the defense HAS to be better if we are to really become a contender.

BG doesn't get off blocks at all, he doesn't use his hands to shed blocks and that is definitely a problem in this scheme. I try not to bash players (no sense in it) but that is what I've seen consistently this year.

I am curious what other defense you'd like to run with a 6 man DL rotation?

MeanGreenTexan · December 18, 2017

37 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I'll probably get hammered for this, but the kids are right. The issue isn't scheme. The only issue I took with our defense was Corner play and the incredibly inconsistent coverage skills they displayed. I was losing my mind at the bowl game we continued to play 10-12 yards off and gave up an 8 yard out over and over and over. At some point you just press them and make them make a perfect throw and catch. Which they did one play for a TD.

In his final season at ULM, Reffett’s defense ranked among the top-20 nationally in passing yards allowed (189.9 ypg/14th), third-down conversion defense (0.326/11th) quarterback sacks (3.00 pg/13th) and tackles for lost yardage (7.5 pg/10th).

Same scheme he was running there.

I wish we would have looked at Brooks at some point, but I have a feeling he, Guyton, and Smith got in trouble bc Smith was limited in first quarter (if he even got in).

I'm not calling for Reffet's head, but wouldn't this be due to coverage calls from... Reffet?

GMG24 · December 18, 2017

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I'm not calling for Reffet's head, but wouldn't this be due to coverage calls from... Reffet?

I can't say for sure as I'm not sure of coverage called or technique taught. I have the ability to press my corners or play them off in certain coverages. My DC lets me make that call, but I gotta answer for them if we screw up technique wise. In certain coverages I don't have a say in their depth.

MGNation92 · December 18, 2017

23 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I am curious what other defense you'd like to run with a 6 man DL rotation?

I'd rather see a true 3-3 stack with an extra SS rather than a nickel for better run support/blitz opportunities.

Preston is way too inconsistent in run support for his decent to subpar coverage. You either need a pure cover guy or a pure run/tight end guy. Patrick Chung of the Patriots comes to mind. They run a lot of three safety nickel with two FS and one SS as the "Nickel" player. He's better in run support but covers tight ends/slot receivers well.

GMG24 · December 18, 2017

3 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I'd rather see a true 3-3 stack with an extra SS rather than a nickel for better run support/blitz opportunities.

Preston is way too inconsistent in run support for his decent to subpar coverage. You either need a pure cover guy or a pure run/tight end guy. Patrick Chung of the Patriots comes to mind. They run a lot of three safety nickel with two FS and one SS as the "Nickel" player. He's better in run support but covers tight ends/slot receivers well.

Think you see that replaced this recruiting class. The safeties they're bringing in can play. I agree Preston did not get it done, what worries me is Baulkman or any other safety couldn't replace him. I honestly wanted to see Robinson roll down there and give it a shot. He was always pretty physical on the special teams units I saw him on. We do play a true 3-3 we just don't stack.

GOMG2013 · December 18, 2017

Coming into this season the strength of this team was the secondary. Last season too. That is where the veterans were and the players that showed some promise. Not only the fans were saying the secondary was the strength, but also the analysts. Some had post and pre-season recognition. I don't see many secondary players wanting to keep ref...

We saw some of these players make plays in actual games as youngsters. So all of a sudden, these corners and safeties can't play football? not just 1 player, but multiple players. In an area the DC coaches.

And who can forget how we covered Sutton the last two years?...There was no improvement.

And if we are going to be a high flying offense, WE HAVE TO HAVE GOOD DBS AND GOOD DB COACHES!!! We are going to be in shootouts and back and forth games. It just comes with having that type of offense.

MGNation92 · December 18, 2017

12 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Think you see that replaced this recruiting class. The safeties they're bringing in can play. I agree Preston did not get it done, what worries me is Baulkman or any other safety couldn't replace him. I honestly wanted to see Robinson roll down there and give it a shot. He was always pretty physical on the special teams units I saw him on. We do play a true 3-3 we just don't stack.

I'll feel a lot better about our safety class if we get Davis to commit.

outoftown · December 18, 2017

I think that continuity is a bigger factor off success on thee defensive side than on the offensive side. That is why I think it is worth it to see another season of Reffett. If neither recruiting nor defensive play visibly improve then: can him.

As for the players defending their coach: It is the honorable thing to do , and it shows they are buying in. I would be worried if they didn't care. However, I don't think it says much about the quality of the coach in terms of scheme etc one way or another. Sometimes one can be too close to an issue to have a good vantage point.

Edited December 18, 2017 by outoftown

untbowler · December 18, 2017

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

That’s a special kind of suck and I think you may be exaggerating ever so slightly. Cosh approached and maybe eclipsed Mendoza levels of suck but Ref certainly has not. I’m all for expecting more but let’s not minimize how truly bad Mendoza’s defense was.

Did Mendoza give up 500 yds rushing in a game, give up offensive record to FAU in Game #1.

I think the poor play was very much on par with Mendoza in several games. Thank goodness for Rice, Lamar, and UTEP to bring down the stats, since the coaching staff loves to promote stats

Cr1028 · December 18, 2017

39 minutes ago, untbowler said:

Did Mendoza give up 500 yds rushing in a game, give up offensive record to FAU in Game #1.

I think the poor play was very much on par with Mendoza in several games. Thank goodness for Rice, Lamar, and UTEP to bring down the stats, since the coaching staff loves to promote stats

How about the 670 yards Cosh gave up to Portland FREAKING State 2 years ago?!!!

Cr1028 · December 18, 2017

40 minutes ago, untbowler said:

Did Mendoza give up 500 yds rushing in a game,

And yes he gave up 575 yards rushing to Navy on November 10, 2007.

greenminer · December 18, 2017

36 minutes ago, untbowler said:

Did Mendoza give up 500 yds rushing in a game, give up offensive record to FAU in Game #1.

I think the poor play was very much on par with Mendoza in several games. Thank goodness for Rice, Lamar, and UTEP to bring down the stats, since the coaching staff loves to promote stats

Navy. I know the schematics of their offense come into play, but I am just answering your question.

As far as the bolded, I don't see anything much different than other recent football staffs we've had. I speculate that they are reaching for anything and everything right now to get butts in seats. That is, until they can start hanging their hats on multiple 8-10 win seasons.

If we ever get to that day and we have a contingent of fans splitting hairs about lack of conference championships and expectations, I guess that'd be a good problem to have.

MeanGreenTexan · December 18, 2017

1 hour ago, MGNation92 said:

I'll feel a lot better about our safety class if we get Davis to commit.

I already feel pretty good about Safety with Williams & Gibbs (if he stays at S) on board, but yeah, Davis would put that position over the top.

untbowler · December 18, 2017

25 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

How about the 670 yards Cosh gave up to Portland FREAKING State 2 years ago?!!!

that's fine, but we are paying these buys more $$$ to not have these embarrassments, yet 2x this season on ESPN the staff got straight curb stomped. Thankfully the first FAU game was not on nationwide.

Offense has been great, although at times sporadic, but the defense, with older players was horrible. Hell at least ST improved over the season, the defense never showed, much except against weaker opponents. Anyone closer in level and it became a role of the dice in those games (UTSA, La Tech, Army, ODU, UAB). Probably best game was second half against USM.

MEANGREENCOACH2 · December 18, 2017

I always felt that Preston was a very weak player. Very lacking on the skill set side however not lacking on the confidence side. #CarlosHarris2.0

Minus the actual production.

greenminer · December 18, 2017

47 minutes ago, untbowler said:

that's fine, but we are paying these buys more $$$ to not have these embarrassments, yet 2x this season on ESPN the staff got straight curb stomped. Thankfully the first FAU game was not on nationwide.

Offense has been great, although at times sporadic, but the defense, with older players was horrible. Hell at least ST improved over the season, the defense never showed, much except against weaker opponents. Anyone closer in level and it became a role of the dice in those games (UTSA, La Tech, Army, ODU, UAB). Probably best game was second half against USM.

How many people outside MGN and FAU would have watched the first matchup? I wish we could see those numbers. I'm thinking tens of people. TENS.

just having fun, here

FirefightnRick · December 18, 2017

3 hours ago, GMG24 said:

No doubt, and no argument here except for the fact that his scheme literally changed 0 from now to then. We have to recruit better players for sure, but McClain was asked to more or less tackle in the previous scheme. This scheme he was asked to be a true safety and cover as well as tackle. His coverage skills are not on par with the type of player he is for sure. We saved RS on a few young corners who can play. I'm definitely interested to see how the D turns out next year. I think Reff should be told Defense needs to improve, but when running this type of offense, your defense will sputter at times. IE FAU first game, offense had ball for about 2 minutes between two drives and Defense had no time to talk/adjust before they're right back on field giving up another score. Not an excuse just a reality.

Yes I AGREE the defense HAS to be better if we are to really become a contender.

BG doesn't get off blocks at all, he doesn't use his hands to shed blocks and that is definitely a problem in this scheme. I try not to bash players (no sense in it) but that is what I've seen consistently this year.

I am curious what other defense you'd like to run with a 6 man DL rotation?

Question to you cause you'll have noticed this before me.....

But as a good friend of mine has pointed out, prior to the game SL was interviewed in which he mentioned Troy's DC Vic Koenning and the pressure his defense is known for, and said that you never know where Troy's blitz is coming from?

Has anyone ever described our defense in that way? The way I would describe Troy's or UTSA's?

Did we dial up a series of blitzes using our safeties and corners as well as our LB's Saturday? If so how often? I only recall one and I haven't watched the replay yet?

Just curious.

Rick

Edited December 18, 2017 by FirefightnRick

Aldo · December 18, 2017

6 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Did we dial up a series of blitzes using our safeties and corners as well as our LB's Saturday? If so how often? I only recall one and I haven't watched the replay yet?

We blitzed Muhammad quite a bit this season. And iirc Preston as well.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Aldo

GMG24 · December 19, 2017

5 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Question to you cause you'll have noticed this before me.....

But as a good friend of mine has pointed out, prior to the game SL was interviewed in which he mentioned Troy's DC Vic Koenning and the pressure his defense is known for, and said that you never know where Troy's blitz is coming from?

Has anyone ever described our defense in that way? The way I would describe Troy's or UTSA's?

Did we dial up a series of blitzes using our safeties and corners as well as our LB's Saturday? If so how often? I only recall one and I haven't watched the replay yet?

Just curious.

Rick

We didn't Saturday bc of the running game. You bring a safety and don't make the play... strike up the band. That RB was dang good and the fact we did what we did was impressive to me. Coverage broke down too often and we allowed cheap first downs on 2nd or 3rd and long as I've mentioned before. Typically yes, the 3-3 defense is designed for just that. Corners had no swag all year. Only time. Saw a glimpse of it was Jenkins when he got his chance for Brooks. I was pretty disappointed that Brooks wasn't given a shot Saturday.

Edited December 19, 2017 by GMG24

DentonLurker · December 19, 2017

I feel like this will get addressed very quickly. If SL is the up-and-comer many of us think he is and he has lost faith in Ref, he will make a change. If he hasn’t and he feels there are things that contributed to the failures besides just coaching, he won’t make a change. If SL really is going somewhere, I don’t see him blindly sticking with Ref at risk of causing other programs to question his ability to lead a program like what might happen with a coach who is at the end of his career. Just my 2 cents.