Player Safety

[greenb.o.g.]

It was irresponsible and dangerous on the part of this coaching staff to allow Mason Fine to play in the game for as long as he did.

That is all ....

[drex]

You are 100% correct.  Get him an offensive line for him or let him out of his scholarship commitment.

[NorthTexan95]

No.

[emmitt01]

I agree.  They should have pulled him the moment they realized his O-line and defense couldn't keep him in this game.  

 

So, right around Sep 1 would have been appropriate 

Edited December 17, 2017 by emmitt01

[Moobs]

Someone has to be behind the center. So if your concern is truly for “player safety,” then you should be saying we should just wave a white flag and not even play. 

 

For a topic with this title, I expected to see some complaining about the refs. 😂

[UNTLifer]

I thought this would be in reference to the head shot on Lawrence. The officials called it by the rules, so it was not targeting but it was a helmet to helmet shot. 

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I thought this would be in reference to the head shot on Lawrence. The officials called it by the rules, so it was not targeting but it was a helmet to helmet shot. 

@Rudy had a good vantage of this play.  I will let him respond in detail but it was clearly a shoulder.  There were some damn bad calls in the game but this was not one.

[UNTLifer]

The replay looked different, but I agree on the crappiness of the officiating. They were just poor. 

[greenb.o.g.]

This topic has nothing to do with bad officiating. Nor am I referring to any other game this season. I'm talking specifically about the New Orleans Bowl. And I refuse to complain about officiating. 

I'm talking about getting your starting quarterback killed. The head to head collision on Fine, late in the 4th quarter, never should have happened because he should not have been in the game. There was no point in him being in the game, not to mention that he could barely stand up at that point. He was getting rocked all game, and at some point this coaching staff needed to say enough was enough. If I were his parents I'd be appalled.

[GMG24]

43 minutes ago, Harry said:

@Rudy had a good vantage of this play.  I will let him respond in detail but it was clearly a shoulder.  There were some damn bad calls in the game but this was not one.

I believe they can still call targeting for a shoulder to the head/neck region with an upward trajectory.  All of which that play had.   Twice we got screwed on Targeting calls this season. 

[Rudy]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

@Rudy had a good vantage of this play.  I will let him respond in detail but it was clearly a shoulder.  There were some damn bad calls in the game but this was not one.

If it's the play that was ruled a targeting then overturned, the Troy player did lead with his shoulder. But if the target is the head, I think it could still be targeting. I don't know, they keep trying to make the game safer but they don't know how to do that. And plenty of bad calls. Calling us for PI when we did the same thing that Troy didn't get flagged for. And the Troy defender planting the crown of his helmet under Mason's chin, almost knocking his helmet off after he clearly released the ball should have been an ejection. The talking heads of NCAA and the NFL keep saying they want to clean up the game, but they have no clue how. 

[GMG24]

5 hours ago, Rudy said:

If it's the play that was ruled a targeting then overturned, the Troy player did lead with his shoulder. But if the target is the head, I think it could still be targeting. I don't know, they keep trying to make the game safer but they don't know how to do that. And plenty of bad calls. Calling us for PI when we did the same thing that Troy didn't get flagged for. And the Troy defender planting the crown of his helmet under Mason's chin, almost knocking his helmet off after he clearly released the ball should have been an ejection. The talking heads of NCAA and the NFL keep saying they want to clean up the game, but they have no clue how. 

Want the easy answer?? Take the helmet off. IMO no longer a weapon. 

[Rudy]

20 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Want the easy answer?? Take the helmet off. IMO no longer a weapon. 

Absolutely. Take all of the body armor off and watch the players start respecting their safety and the safety of the other players.  I don't have the numbers off hand, but I don't think rugby players have the same head trauma issues.  In baseball, players like Barry Bonds dress up like Robocop, then crowd the plate trying to get hit, then bitch like a little girl when they get pegged with a fastball.

Hockey, my favorite sport, is having the same issue with concussions.  They wanted to speed up the game because they were under the false impression that play was "too slow". So they eliminate all of the clutching and grabbing to speed up and make it more offensive. One major problem with that. Now the defenders have to run faster to hit and make plays. Two guys running faster and making contact at full speed equals harder hits and more injuries. It's not rocket science, yet the millionaire dolts than run these sports have no damn clue.

 

[GMG24]

12 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Absolutely. Take all of the body armor off and watch the players start respecting their safety and the safety of the other players.  I don't have the numbers off hand, but I don't think rugby players have the same head trauma issues.  In baseball, players like Barry Bonds dress up like Robocop, then crowd the plate trying to get hit, then bitch like a little girl when they get pegged with a fastball.

Hockey, my favorite sport, is having the same issue with concussions.  They wanted to speed up the game because they were under the false impression that play was "too slow". So they eliminate all of the clutching and grabbing to speed up and make it more offensive. One major problem with that. Now the defenders have to run faster to hit and make plays. Two guys running faster and making contact at full speed equals harder hits and more injuries. It's not rocket science, yet the millionaire dolts than run these sports have no damn clue.

 

Edit: they dint give a S bc those guys running faster, who are bigger make them more $$.  Modern day gladiators that are WELL compensated and know exactly what they're getting into. 

[UNTLifer]

7 hours ago, GMG24 said:

I believe they can still call targeting for a shoulder to the head/neck region with an upward trajectory.  All of which that play had.   Twice we got screwed on Targeting calls this season. 

Kelly Stouffer, color man on the game, said it couldn't be targeting if the catch was made and the WR was now running with the ball because he was no longer defenseless per how the rule is written.  If that is true, then the rule is just stupid.

Regarding Fine, it was a 2 score game at the time, so why would you pull your best QB?  I understand your concern, but it is football and some games just go that way.

[Rudy]

Well it was an ESPN crew, so I wouldn't give them much credit.

[greenb.o.g.]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Kelly Stouffer, color man on the game, said it couldn't be targeting if the catch was made and the WR was now running with the ball because he was no longer defenseless per how the rule is written.  If that is true, then the rule is just stupid.

Regarding Fine, it was a 2 score game at the time, so why would you pull your best QB?  I understand your concern, but it is football and some games just go that way.

At the start of the 4th quarter the score was 43-23. With 4:07 left in the game, the score was 50-23. It was never a two-score game. Also, Fine was not the best quarterback on the team at that point. As mentioned before, the guy could barely get back off the ground.

And finally, "it is football and some games just go that way" is exactly the attitude that needs to change in this country so that football players don't turn into vegetables when they reach 50 years old. I'm not saying that is going to happen to Fine, but with the overall damage he has taken, not only this year but last year as well, he has a much higher risk.

[GMG24]

8 hours ago, greenb.o.g. said:

At the start of the 4th quarter the score was 43-23. With 4:07 left in the game, the score was 50-23. It was never a two-score game. Also, Fine was not the best quarterback on the team at that point. As mentioned before, the guy could barely get back off the ground.

And finally, "it is football and some games just go that way" is exactly the attitude that needs to change in this country so that football players don't turn into vegetables when they reach 50 years old. I'm not saying that is going to happen to Fine, but with the overall damage he has taken, not only this year but last year as well, he has a much higher risk.

then don't play football.  Good grief.  

[outoftown]

So here is my opinion (the view from someone who is a college football fan AND has authored more than a dozen scientific publications using brain imaging and cognition):

Players know the risks when they start the game and are in tiptop condition. Concussions are part of that risk. A single concussion is not great, but likely no disaster. Many things in life are risky, but that is not a reason for society to stop completely giving people freedom to do them unless they are mentally not in condition to judge.

However the data educated theory out there right now is that while the first hits are bad, the biggest problem is repeated hits and probably mostly so taking hits when the head is already undergoing remission from a previous (mini) concussion. So having a player play is always a risk, but having him out there within 30 minutes after he just took a vicious hit to the head is an enhanced risk that the respective player is often not in condition to correctly judge by himself. If it is a mini concussion the remission process is likely over by next week, but unlikely to be so during the game. Playing such a player when your team is down more than two scores with 4 minutes left renders that enhanced risk even less necessary. Now if you saw that hit Fine took, that is a vicious hit to the head. SL playing Fine at the end was therefore an unnecessary enhanced risk, i.e stupid and pigheaded and borderline irresponsible.

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by outoftown

[GMG24]

9 minutes ago, outoftown said:

So here is my opinion (the view from someone who is a college football fan AND has more than and has authored more than a dozen scientific publications using brain imaging and cognition):

Players know the risks when they start the game and are in tiptop condition. Concussions are part of that risk. A single concussion is not great, but likely no disaster.

However the data educated theory out there right now is that while the first hits are bad, the biggest problem is repeated hits and probably mostly so taking hits when the head is already undergoing remission from a previous (mini) concussion. So having a player play is always a risk, but having him out there within 30 minutes after he just took a vicious hit to the head is an enhanced risk that the respective player is often not in condition to correctly judge by himself.Doing it when your team is down more than two scores with 4 minutes left is an unnecessary enhanced risk. SL playing Fine at the end was therefore stupid and pigheaded and borderline irresponsible.

 

I didn't realize Seth was now the team doc or team trainer. 

[outoftown]

4 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I didn't realize Seth was now the team doc or team trainer. 

Come on, It doesn't take a doctor to see that was a vicious hit to the head and you ought to give that player a break that lasts more than ten minutes.

Edited December 18, 2017 by outoftown

[DT 90]

20 hours ago, greenb.o.g. said:

 

I'm talking about getting your starting quarterback killed. The head to head collision on Fine, late in the 4th quarter, never should have happened because he should not have been in the game. There was no point in him being in the game, not to mention that he could barely stand up at that point. He was getting rocked all game, and at some point this coaching staff needed to say enough was enough. If I were his parents I'd be appalled.

No you wouldn't. If you were the father of a starting D1 QB you would be pissed because they pulled him.  Your only chance of winning, however slim, is to have your best players on the field.

[DT 90]

20 hours ago, GMG24 said:

I believe they can still call targeting for a shoulder to the head/neck region with an upward trajectory.  All of which that play had.   Twice we got screwed on Targeting calls this season. 

Not when he is a runner.  He clearly became a runner. It was a nasty looking hit but perfectly legal. They got that one right.

 

[GMG24]

16 minutes ago, DT 90 said:

Not when he is a runner.  He clearly became a runner. It was a nasty looking hit but perfectly legal. They got that one right.

 

I obviously need to re-read the rule thanks for clarifying. 

[greenb.o.g.]

4 hours ago, GMG24 said:

then don't play football.  Good grief.  

Look, I'm not denying that there isn't an inherent risk when it comes to playing football. There are inherent risks in playing other sports as well. Players take on those risks just like someone driving a car. But I believe one of the goals of football leadership in this country (and this includes Division 1 football programs And head coaches of said programs) should be player safety and the minimization of those risks. 

And when I see a young kid getting beat to a pulp for no reason whatsoever, I'm going to speak up.