Why no one goes to SMU games

Cerebus · December 12, 2017

2 hours ago, MrAlien said:

they need a cash lot right next to the stadium (the empty space next to the alumni center would be perfect).

That parking is already spoken for, it is the Black Lot. I think the min MGC contribution to park there is $2500/yr.

UNTLifer · December 12, 2017

I thought the answer to the question in this thread title was "because they suck."

BTG_Fan1 · January 15, 2018

On 12/12/2017 at 10:10 AM, MrAlien said:

I actually went to both UNT (undergrad) and SMU (masters)... I actually think that SMU does a better job of organizing the tailgating (boulevarding) and parking. SMU has a lot of parking north of the stadium, though it might be a 10 min walk.... The parking for a UNT game is so unorganized, I have convinced many other alums to finally come back to a game, only to hear them complain that it took them an hour to figure out parking, they need a cash lot right next to the stadium (the empty space next to the alumni center would be perfect).

UNT has a website believe it’s something like Meangreengameday.com or something similar and it has a list of locations to park, etc. it’s under marketed and something that needs to be sent out weekly and Broadcasted as well via email, radio, and I’m the stadium. More signage that says cash here or there at critical points will help as well.

I do agree parking is a major issue, and something that can be another negative that can deter fans from coming when added with performance, temperature, matchup..

No idea how others feel, but the Red/Blue Lot that a majority of people on here Tailgate in (I believe) is usually around 50% full. Most of the cars park close to the dorm or they park close to the hill, but out towards the soccer/field are pretty open. I feel as this is a missed opportunity for UNT to sale daily or single game parking passes.

meangreanmick · January 15, 2018

4 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

4 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

No idea how others feel, but the Red/Blue Lot that a majority of people on here Tailgate in (I believe) is usually around 50% full. Most of the cars park close to the dorm or they park close to the hill, but out towards the soccer/field are pretty open. I feel as this is a missed opportunity for UNT to sale daily or single game parking passes.

Selling game day/single game parking passes to Red/Blue lot is a great idea. I have never viewed parking at Apogee as an issue as there seems to be tons of it all around, from the parking at Fouts, to Red/Blue and to the cash lots over on the grass in front of the alumni side of stadium. They one thing I have also thought was they spread it out too much so you have 50% of Red/Blue go unused, I would much rather see Red/Blue more full Athletics must know how many Red/Blue spots they sell before the game and thus how many they could sell on gameday. Even if they only sold 50% of the 50% available, that would help parking and the tailgating significantly.

BTG_Fan1 · January 15, 2018

16 minutes ago, meangreanmick said:

Selling game day/single game parking passes to Red/Blue lot is a great idea. I have never viewed parking at Apogee as an issue as there seems to be tons of it all around, from the parking at Fouts, to Red/Blue and to the cash lots over on the grass in front of the alumni side of stadium. They one thing I have also thought was they spread it out too much so you have 50% of Red/Blue go unused, I would much rather see Red/Blue more full Athletics must know how many Red/Blue spots they sell before the game and thus how many they could sell on gameday. Even if they only sold 50% of the 50% available, that would help parking and the tailgating significantly.

Agreed, I’m sure there are plenty of people who would rather park at Apogee than over at fouts. I know plenty of the Frats/Sororities had parents/alumni come up on select games willing to buy parking passes to find out they couldn’t. Just no idea how people who donate would feel having more people packed in potentially.

oldguystudent · January 15, 2018

What are the yellow/premium cash lots over by the softball stadium? I see those pulling into the red/blue lot on Bonnie Brae.

As to red/blue, I can never figure out from year to year if I'm able to enter from North Texas Blvd. like I did in 2011. Sometimes it seems to be open, other times I seem to get a little bit of a talking too from people in yellow jackets.

So unknowing as to whether I can enter from North Texas Blvd. from week to week, and having to drive down Bonnie Brae is the one inconvenience I face as it is a merely a two lane road, and I have to sit in line behind people who pull up thinking it's a cash lot, wait for them to figure out it isn't, wait for them to receive directions back to the cash lots, then wait for them to back up and turn around against traffic.

That one thing really needs some serious improvement.

As for opening red/blue lot to cash, people better be paying more than $25 to park there or I'm gonna get a little miffed.

Mike Jackson · January 15, 2018

On 12/11/2017 at 9:38 AM, LongJim said:

TCU has only begun drawing well at home since they went "back" to the Big 12--roughly 2012.

They are now playing teams people care about, and that travel well. And more importantly, they are winning.

Before they joined the Big 12, their home attendance was anemic---even when they were going 11-0--and despite the FW ST pounding "hometown team" themes.

I disagree. TCU had good attendance especially for a G5 level program before getting into the Big 12. Also they had better scheduling and conference than SMU. Stability in the coaching staff and winning. Also using public transportation SMU is the easiest sport venue to get to in DFW except the American Airlines Center. Their stadium is in desperate need of improvements in the common areas. Looks better that Fouts did no doubt but functionally under the stands it is exactly the same as Fouts. I enjoy the road games there. And if they had an Apogee level stadium at the exact same location with all the parking issues their attendance would improve 20% and more if they started winning.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Mike Jackson

Mike Jackson · January 15, 2018

1 hour ago, oldguystudent said:

As for opening red/blue lot to cash, people better be paying more than $25 to park there or I'm gonna get a little miffed.

I agree with this. I think they should shoot to get the lot 85% full. Pre-sale passes for individual games at $25. Release enough passes to get to that 85% to 90% full number but charge $35 for them on game day. Make sure the attendants have more POC like The Square. And it is way past time for Bonnie Brae to be widened. Should have happened while Apogee was under construction.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Mike Jackson

meangreanmick · January 15, 2018

Agree, or charge season ticket holders a little less if they are open ending up the lot more.

UNTFan23 · January 15, 2018

21 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

I agree with this. I think they should shoot to get the lot 85% full. Pre-sale passes for individual games at $25. Release enough passes to get to that 85% to 90% full number but charge $35 for them on game day. Make sure the attendants have more POC like The Square. And it is way past time for Bonnie Brae to be widened. Should have happen while Apogee was under construction.

Bonnie Brae being widened falls on the City to take care of. I'm sure the university is anxious to see the start and completion of that project.

EDIT: Here is a DRC article that mentions the widening of Bonnie Brae. 2023 estimated completion timeframe.

Edited January 15, 2018 by UNTFan23

UNTLifer · January 15, 2018

24 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Bonnie Brae being widened falls on the City to take care of. I'm sure the university is anxious to see the start and completion of that project.

EDIT: Here is a DRC article that mentions the widening of Bonnie Brae. 2023 estimated completion timeframe.

Typical timeline for Denton street improvements...10 years too late.

Mike Jackson · January 15, 2018

21 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Typical timeline for Denton street improvements...10 years too late.

That is being generous. How long has Denton Regional Medical Center been next.to Mayhill Road?

LongJim · January 15, 2018

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

I disagree. TCU had good attendance especially for a G5 level program before getting into the Big 12.

I encourage you to check the home game attendance for TCU before they joined the B12. Their crowds were disappointing for a school in the middle of a town the size of FW. Saying their attendance was good is revisionist history, IMO.

TreeFiddy · January 15, 2018

13 minutes ago, LongJim said:

I encourage you to check the home game attendance for TCU before they joined the B12. Their crowds were disappointing for a school in the middle of a town the size of FW. Saying their attendance was good is revisionist history, IMO.

Exactly. TCU attendance has been and continues to be pretty bad considering location and conference affiliation.

Mike Jackson · January 15, 2018

28 minutes ago, LongJim said:

I encourage you to check the home game attendance for TCU before they joined the B12. Their crowds were disappointing for a school in the middle of a town the size of FW. Saying their attendance was good is revisionist history, IMO.

I went back to back to 2009, just to be fair. I don't know what you expect from a G5 program form 2009 to 2011 they never had a crowd under 30,000. And this is before the stadium was slightly upgraded to 45,000 capacity it has today. So minus the year of construction that reduced the capacity to 32,000 temporarily in 2011 the were at over 70% capacity average for all their home games. They had a few virtual sellouts during that period. If we had a couple of sellouts and in next 3 years and averaged over 70% capacity Wren Baker might get a 10 year contract extension. TCU is small private school will a stadium that hold the entire student population and everyone who works for the university in twice over or more. If you think their attendance is bad UNT should shut down our football program. Are you a closet SMU fan with clouded objectivity?

Edited January 15, 2018 by Mike Jackson

LongJim · January 16, 2018

4 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

I went back to back to 2009, just to be fair. I don't know what you expect from a G5 program form 2009 to 2011 they never had a crowd under 30,000. And this is before the stadium was slightly upgraded to 45,000 capacity it has today. So minus the year of construction that reduced the capacity to 32,000 temporarily in 2011 the were at over 70% capacity average for all their home games. They had a few virtual sellouts during that period. If we had a couple of sellouts and in next 3 years and averaged over 70% capacity Wren Baker might get a 10 year contract extension. TCU is small private school will a stadium that hold the entire student population and everyone who works for the university in twice over or more. If you think their attendance is bad UNT should shut down our football program. Are you a closet SMU fan with clouded objectivity?

TCU was at least a top 15 team each one of those years. If 70% capacity is your idea of good attendance for a consistent top 15 team in a town with over a million people, then I guess I stand corrected. I think it's worse than UNT, to be honest.

Are you a closet TCU fan with clouded objectivity? Or just a friend to the straw man argument? Or can you just disagree with me like a big boy and go on with your bad self?

Edited January 16, 2018 by LongJim

GrandGreen · January 16, 2018

Obviously, you can view TCU's attendance in two ways. One it is high for a smaller private university, it is much better than SMU and NT on an actual basis.

I have not been to a TCU game since NT played there, but I can tell you that like SMU back in those days their attendance was very exaggerated. Now I am sure their attendance is much better.

However, when you consider the great history TCU has and their status as the only game in a relatively big city and their current string of very good teams than I would think their attendance has to be disappointing. Their not trying to fill a stadium playing a CUSA like schedule, they generally play teams that should draw.

A lot of TCU decisions have been proven to be great, but IMO Patterson is primarily why they are so successful. If Patterson was at SMU or NT, I think he would have similar numbers. It is rare that you find an outstanding coach, but even rarer to keep him particularly when TCU program was at a g5 level.

Aldo · January 16, 2018

On 12/12/2017 at 10:10 AM, MrAlien said:

I actually went to both UNT (undergrad) and SMU (masters)... I actually think that SMU does a better job of organizing the tailgating (boulevarding) and parking. SMU has a lot of parking north of the stadium, though it might be a 10 min walk.... The parking for a UNT game is so unorganized, I have convinced many other alums to finally come back to a game, only to hear them complain that it took them an hour to figure out parking, they need a cash lot right next to the stadium (the empty space next to the alumni center would be perfect).

20 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

What are the yellow/premium cash lots over by the softball stadium? I see those pulling into the red/blue lot on Bonnie Brae.

As to red/blue, I can never figure out from year to year if I'm able to enter from North Texas Blvd. like I did in 2011. Sometimes it seems to be open, other times I seem to get a little bit of a talking too from people in yellow jackets.

So unknowing as to whether I can enter from North Texas Blvd. from week to week, and having to drive down Bonnie Brae is the one inconvenience I face as it is a merely a two lane road, and I have to sit in line behind people who pull up thinking it's a cash lot, wait for them to figure out it isn't, wait for them to receive directions back to the cash lots, then wait for them to back up and turn around against traffic.

That one thing really needs some serious improvement.

As for opening red/blue lot to cash, people better be paying more than $25 to park there or I'm gonna get a little miffed.

@MrAlien The link below shows you where and the approach needed to park. 9 times out of 10, come up Bonnie Brae and read the signs at each driveway.

@oldguystudent according to the link below, you can use North Texas (on southbound frontage road) if you have a red pass.

http://www.meangreenmap.com/apogeeparking.html

oldguystudent · January 16, 2018

8 minutes ago, Aldo said:

@MrAlien The link below shows you where and the approach needed to park. 9 times out of 10, come up Bonnie Brae and read the signs at each driveway.

@oldguystudent according to the link below, you can use North Texas (on southbound frontage road) if you have a red pass.

http://www.meangreenmap.com/apogeeparking.html

It makes zero sense to me that a red pass would enter in one place and a blue pass would enter in another when they lead to the exact same lot.

Edit: That does clear up the question I had about the yellow lot though.

Edited January 16, 2018 by oldguystudent

forevereagle · January 16, 2018

14 minutes ago, oldguystudent said:

It makes zero sense to me that a red pass would enter in one place and a blue pass would enter in another when they lead to the exact same lot.

I believe the idea there is to even out traffic to each entrance so they aren't backing up traffic.

BTG_Fan1 · January 16, 2018

15 hours ago, LongJim said:

TCU was at least a top 15 team each one of those years. If 70% capacity is your idea of good attendance for a consistent top 15 team in a town with over a million people, then I guess I stand corrected. I think it's worse than UNT, to be honest.

Are you a closet TCU fan with clouded objectivity? Or just a friend to the straw man argument? Or can you just disagree with me like a big boy and go on with your bad self?

How many of those 1M people went to TCU?

Fans from other schools in the city are not likely to go to a TCU game unless they are playing TCU... You have to take into account as well the pricing as well, I have no idea the cost of a ticket at TCU...

UNT would a lot of good by growing into Ft. Worth as well.

untjim1995 · January 16, 2018

TCUs attendance was just fine for the level they were playing at, the upper non-P5s. Once they started winning and getting ranked, they got good numbers for home games against the MWC teams they played between 2006 and 2012. Specifically, I remember games they hosed against Utah and BYU being sellouts toward the middle and end of their MWC run, while really good crowds showed up for games against Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State after they began finishing ranked at the end of seasons.

Ft. Worth is like most every other city in the country. They like sports and want to have something to take pride in for their city. TCU gives them this--in part because the city WANTS it. If any of you believe Denton feels this way about sports, especially UNT sports, you are just denying history. Sure, there are some citizens that do, but if Denton truly liked our football team, we would have had multiple sellouts at Apogee since it seats over 30k. We haven't had even one.

Denton folk predominantly like eclectic art and music. They like nature and science. They like being close to DFW to go down there to be entertained. But they either don't care about UNT sports enough to support it or they absolutely loathe its existence. Its just how different Denton is from every other city with a FBS school in it, at least in this region of the country. And as I've gotten older, I have come to realize that there is nothing wrong with Denton's sentiment toward UNT athletics--its just different than anywhere else. A great example is from the other night's home basketball game where an older man screamed profanities at a fan for doing something unbelievable in front of him with a minute or less to go in a tight game--the fan in front had the audacity to stand in front of him and cheer on our team in a close finish. I can tell you that this ain't happening in any other college arena in this region of the country,

Mike Jackson · January 26, 2018

On 1/15/2018 at 8:03 PM, LongJim said:

TCU was at least a top 15 team each one of those years. If 70% capacity is your idea of good attendance for a consistent top 15 team in a town with over a million people, then I guess I stand corrected. I think it's worse than UNT, to be honest.

Are you a closet TCU fan with clouded objectivity? Or just a friend to the straw man argument? Or can you just disagree with me like a big boy and go on with your bad self?

Others have already chimed in supporting my take very effectively. Find another G5 school with better attendance numbers than TCU did during that stretch (especially a small private university) and then we would have something to debate.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Mike Jackson

Withers940 · January 26, 2018

On 1/16/2018 at 2:19 PM, untjim1995 said:

Denton folk predominantly like eclectic art and music. They like nature and science. They like being close to DFW to go down there to be entertained. But they either don't care about UNT sports enough to support it or they absolutely loathe its existence. Its just how different Denton is from every other city with a FBS school in it, at least in this region of the country. And as I've gotten older, I have come to realize that there is nothing wrong with Denton's sentiment toward UNT athletics--its just different than anywhere else. A great example is from the other night's home basketball game where an older man screamed profanities at a fan for doing something unbelievable in front of him with a minute or less to go in a tight game--the fan in front had the audacity to stand in front of him and cheer on our team in a close finish. I can tell you that this ain't happening in any other college arena in this region of the country,

Do you know if the guy screaming at the fan was an Alumni or just a Denton Civilian? I guarantee this happens in other places because you are always going to find a crotchety old man that yells at clouds.

I am not disagreeing with you in regards to the Denton comment. Denton is a very unique crowd full of all sorts of people. Yes, the majority of them could probably give a rip about what happens at UNT just as long as it doesn't affect their favorite walking trail or some rare native grass that will be threatened if something is built there. There are a lot of Denton people that have no real affiliation with UNT other than they live in the same time and they still show up to event. Im not saying its 50% of the population, not even close but they take the laid back approach of, "Do I have time for it?". Could this number be a hell of a lot better, you bet your Bunsen burner it could but you can say that about a lot of small college towns. There are a lot of big time Mean Green Club Contributors that didn't attend UNT nor their children and they still give a crap ton of money to it and attend a lot of games because they live here.

If they open up the Red/Blue lots, they better charge more than $50 a game is all I have to say in the matter. If they go to all 6 games, they would end up paying $300 which is this coming years contribution level for a parking pass.

GrandGreen · January 26, 2018

On 1/16/2018 at 2:19 PM, untjim1995 said:

TCUs attendance was just fine for the level they were playing at, the upper non-P5s. Once they started winning and getting ranked, they got good numbers for home games against the MWC teams they played between 2006 and 2012. Specifically, I remember games they hosed against Utah and BYU being sellouts toward the middle and end of their MWC run, while really good crowds showed up for games against Air Force, Colorado State, and San Diego State after they began finishing ranked at the end of seasons.

Ft. Worth is like most every other city in the country. They like sports and want to have something to take pride in for their city. TCU gives them this--in part because the city WANTS it. If any of you believe Denton feels this way about sports, especially UNT sports, you are just denying history. Sure, there are some citizens that do, but if Denton truly liked our football team, we would have had multiple sellouts at Apogee since it seats over 30k. We haven't had even one.

Denton folk predominantly like eclectic art and music. They like nature and science. They like being close to DFW to go down there to be entertained. But they either don't care about UNT sports enough to support it or they absolutely loathe its existence. Its just how different Denton is from every other city with a FBS school in it, at least in this region of the country. And as I've gotten older, I have come to realize that there is nothing wrong with Denton's sentiment toward UNT athletics--its just different than anywhere else. A great example is from the other night's home basketball game where an older man screamed profanities at a fan for doing something unbelievable in front of him with a minute or less to go in a tight game--the fan in front had the audacity to stand in front of him and cheer on our team in a close finish. I can tell you that this ain't happening in any other college arena in this region of the country,

Denton is a super college town and the people who live there are not significantly different from any other college town. I don't understand the constant harangue about the Arts and Music department influence on Denton sports. IMO, if NT did not even offer those degrees, that there would be no significant change in NT's athletic support.

Your example of one man protesting someone standing at a sport events, surely you can't believe that is unique to NT.

NT's potential fan base of area residents, alumni, current students and staff are not that different from most other colleges. There are geographical difference inasmuch as there are a lot more live entertainment options in big metro areas. However, the biggest problems that exist for all programs now, is the vast array of entertainment options available without leaving the couch.

I guarantee that NT attendance suffered a lot more because college students rather play video games than walk to a football game than it does for their preference for arts and music. I know I would go to a lot more basketball games if I could not just watch them at home. Measure a two hour drive in heavy traffic and $30 versus a descent live video. The experience is no way comparable, but it is definite competition for attendance.