Sun Herald Article: Conference USA proves again that it’s a failing model.

[Talon90]

Interesting Article from Southern Miss (Only Original CUSA Member Remaining) Beat Writer:

http://www.sunherald.com/sports/college/conference-usa/article188205609.html

 

 

[greenminer]

This guy hints at the larger problems facing G5s,  but seems to underestimate them.

[Wag Tag]

Cherry pick the sun belt and establish an east and west conference with a championship game. Travel expense has got to be insane!

[dmaxel]

Call me crazy, but I honestly think this is a trend that will affect P5 conferences too. It'll be delayed, but it'll happen.

There are just too many students now who are either becoming apathetic to sports, or are becoming too lazy to be social. There are also those who simply think staying for the full length of a game is simply a waste of time. A lot will go to a game until they get the feeling (whether true or not) that they know what the outcome is going to be, and they want to leave right then and there.

I'm the same age as all these people, yet even I don't understand why. Instead it seems like they'd rather do other things that I'd consider fine if you have nothing else to do -- rather than being the one thing they'd rather do more.

P5 conferences aren't affected by this as much because those who do care about sports and will seek to go to games and stay for the full duration will go to such schools. But give them enough "down" years and the trend will start for them too.

Edited December 6, 2017 by dmaxel

[MattMakesLoans]

9 Teams make a bowl, 10 qualified for the post-season!  That means a record number of post-season revenue.

Why don't we give on the field success a chance before we blow everything up.

 

[NorthTexan95]

43 minutes ago, dmaxel said:

Call me crazy, but I honestly think this is a trend that will affect P5 conferences too. It'll be delayed, but it'll happen.

There are just too many students now who are either becoming apathetic to sports, or are becoming too lazy to be social. There are also those who simply think staying for the full length of a game is simply a waste of time. A lot will go to a game until they get the feeling (whether true or not) that they know what the outcome is going to be, and they want to leave right then and there.

I'm the same age as all these people, yet even I don't understand why. Instead it seems like they'd rather do other things that I'd consider fine if you have nothing else to do -- rather than being the one thing they'd rather do more.

P5 conferences aren't affected by this as much because those who do care about sports and will seek to go to games and stay for the full duration will go to such schools. But give them enough "down" years and the trend will start for them too.

Technology has also given students many more options of things to do on a Saturday afternoon. 

[PlummMeanGreen]

4 hours ago, dmaxel said:

Call me crazy, but I honestly think this is a trend that will affect P5 conferences too. It'll be delayed, but it'll happen.

There are just too many students now who are either becoming apathetic to sports, or are becoming too lazy to be social. There are also those who simply think staying for the full length of a game is simply a waste of time. A lot will go to a game until they get the feeling (whether true or not) that they know what the outcome is going to be, and they want to leave right then and there.

I'm the same age as all these people, yet even I don't understand why. Instead it seems like they'd rather do other things that I'd consider fine if you have nothing else to do -- rather than being the one thing they'd rather do more.

P5 conferences aren't affected by this as much because those who do care about sports and will seek to go to games and stay for the full duration will go to such schools. But give them enough "down" years and the trend will start for them too.

That prophetic article is the first shot heard round the CUSA world.  The times in CUSA they are a'changin' & this is just the beginning.     

Projected National Student Apathy?   A huge reason we need a fully staffed Promotions Dept. in the Athletic Dept. with large group promotions for its revenue-producing varsity sports at the top of its objectives to successfully fulfill.  

In DFW there is an all out  war going on for the entertainment dollar & sooner UNT powers finally admit it & begin a viable program to get in the fight for that dollar the better.  All this to stay ahead of this projected trend of more national student apathy (as if we needed any more in OldDenton).

 Best news for UNT is how the Apogee Game Day experience with all its sights & sounds has so improved & winning only magnifies it.  We have all that to build a fan base upon, but we must continue to win, win & win--season after season after season.

GMG!

Edited December 6, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[GTWT]

Go west, Mean Green, go west.

[mgfan]

MWC. I'll need the numbers but bringing even slightly bigger names to Denton seems to help attendance. This maybe offset by travel cost though. 

[UNTexas]

The article was very honest and true. A conference championship in an empty stadium looks bad because it was. The CUSA bowl games will be played in empty stadiums too, including ours. 

Getting people to turn out isn't an easy fix. G5 teams have been deemed irrelevant and people know it. It's showing. Students at UNT don't pay much attention because our sports have been nothing to be proud of. Hopefully it gets better. I know for myself I have kids, their sports are priority over UNT sports every time. I also know people who went to UNT who just want to relax on a Saturday. If they watch sports they are a click away and it costs nothing. As far as bowls, short notice plane tickets, hotels, transportation, ect, on graduation day a week or so before Christmas isn't a recipe for success if you want turnout.

There's not going to be an easy fix but I don't see it changing either. I think the G5 teams will become the modern day D1aa and P5 the D1. D1aa mostly had poor turnout, much like we are seeing at the G5 teams. 

[Wag Tag]

You really want to look at how to market a sports venue take a look  the Mavericks! They suck but they still bring in large crowds because the offer more than just the game. Military nite was a huge success with tons of press. We have all said post game concerts ( also done by the Mavs) and mentioned by Wren involving the student fee. We are very fortunate to have a football venue with land to have great tailgating! Most schools do not. An empty seat is a wasted opportunity!

Edited December 6, 2017 by Wag Tag

[GrandGreen]

USM writers are beginning to be an irritation. USM is just too good for CUSA.  For example look at this article: http://www.sunherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/patrick-magee/article157238319.html

However, there is a lot of truth in the article as it pertains to all college sports.  There are just too many entertainment options to battle for potential fans attention.   Do fans want to make the effort to travel to a football game spend $40 a person or watch the same game or a better one via some type of video?  Or in the case of many college students just walk over to the event and watch versus other activities.   

Many of the newer potential fans grew up playing video games not participating in sports.   They just don't ever get the exposure to sports enough to become a fan.  This is a trend that is going to eventually kill much of both college and pro programs.  

The successful college programs just don't rely on alumni or local fans.  Most sports fans in Texas for example that are not tied to a particular university or going to become fans of the mega state teams in this case A&M and UT.  We probably all have NT grad friends who are devout fans of UT.  They go to games and give financial support to a  name team versus the school that they attended.  

I really don't see any long term answers.   The cost of participation in college athletics for universities continues to become more and more crazy.  At the same time, the market for college sports continues to dwindle. At some point, the system is going to collapse and something like the Ivy league model is going to prevail for most programs.  

[untjim1995]

Here’s a crazy thought—have closer conferences, geographically, so that a conference championship game won’t have a few thousand people there due to it not being in the same time zone as the other team. 

Realign yesterday. Get the western SBCUSA teams in a league and the eastern ones in another. We all are seeing just how little interest anyone has in SBCUSA football by the bowl pairings. CUSA is nothing more than SBC 2.0 and it is time to recognize that the teams left behind in CUSA (USM, Marshall, UAB, Rice, UTEP) got left behind for a reason...they are meant for this level of play. The only way forward for these teams in thru cost control and fan attendance. Or just give up. That’s the choices for this level of play in the years ahead.

[Arkstfan]

I think if CUSA had stuck to the first plan, add UNT and MAYBE add FIU things would have worked better but the problem was ECU got Marshall and UAB on board to easternize the conference and it became a tack on here and tack on there.

Guy I highly respect said when the realignment shots started getting fired that there were two paths to stability.

First would be two really good leagues that would be at the MWC level or maybe better. One eastern and one southern and then a what's left league that stretched across the region.

Second would be one good league across the east and south and a southern league and an eastern league chasing them.

With ESPN chasing the Fox Regionals, I think regional football is becoming more viable.

But regionalized or not, FAU and FIU are probably going to have to be heavily subsidized by the school no matter what. That is a winner/front-runner market. Even ACC membership with big names regularly on the bill hasn't made Miami a strong attendance school. They have to be well up in the ratings for the locals to care.

[Arkstfan]

12 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

USM writers are beginning to be an irritation. USM is just too good for CUSA.  For example look at this article: http://www.sunherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/patrick-magee/article157238319.html

However, there is a lot of truth in the article as it pertains to all college sports.  There are just too many entertainment options to battle for potential fans attention.   Do fans want to make the effort to travel to a football game spend $40 a person or watch the same game or a better one via some type of video?  Or in the case of many college students just walk over to the event and watch versus other activities.   

Many of the newer potential fans grew up playing video games not participating in sports.   They just don't ever get the exposure to sports enough to become a fan.  This is a trend that is going to eventually kill much of both college and pro programs.  

The successful college programs just don't rely on alumni or local fans.  Most sports fans in Texas for example that are not tied to a particular university or going to become fans of the mega state teams in this case A&M and UT.  We probably all have NT grad friends who are devout fans of UT.  They go to games and give financial support to a  name team versus the school that they attended.  

I really don't see any long term answers.   The cost of participation in college athletics for universities continues to become more and more crazy.  At the same time, the market for college sports continues to dwindle. At some point, the system is going to collapse and something like the Ivy league model is going to prevail for most programs.  

College football is going to need to follow the MLS model in my opinion.

There must always be some seating available that is competitively priced against going to the movies. Some mid-priced seating for the cheap seat people to grow into, and lots of premium seating where your ticket gets you good parking and non-alcohol concessions. Most schools lack that cheap seat option except for students.

Administrations have to engage students. Not just to boost football attendance but to provide value over online education. If all you do is go to class and go back to your room, you might as well be taking online classes.

 

[LongJim]

7 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

But regionalized or not, FAU and FIU are probably going to have to be heavily subsidized by the school no matter what. That is a winner/front-runner market. Even ACC membership with big names regularly on the bill hasn't made Miami a strong attendance school. They have to be well up in the ratings for the locals to care.

I agree with this, and it has always been true.  Miami has never drawn well unless they were winning, and "drawing well" is a charitable characterization.

FAU/FIU are virtual unknowns in their own state, and very few FL residents care about their athletic programs.  Frankly, I'm surprised that USF and UCF draw as many fans as they do.  Outside of UF and FSU, FL historically has weak support for college athletics.  It's not a new problem for them at all.

[Arkstfan]

1 minute ago, LongJim said:

I agree with this, and it has always been true.  Miami has never drawn well unless they were winning, and "drawing well" is a charitable characterization.

FAU/FIU are virtual unknowns in their own state, and very few FL residents care about their athletic programs.  Frankly, I'm surprised that USF and UCF draw as many fans as they do.  Outside of UF and FSU, FL historically has weak support for college athletics.  It's not a new problem for them at all.

UCF and USF (especially UCF in my observation) have really branded themselves as community teams. Doesn't hurt that Florida has such a transient population that a lot of the audience doesn't care about UF and FSU.

[Arkstfan]

I went to the googles to check on the timeline.

When CUSA did the six team expansion things were quite a bit different.

Obviously ECU, Tulane, and Tulsa were still in.

But more than that the post-season situation was in the air.

There was general agreement there would be a playoff but it was not yet settled what that would look like and there was a significant amount of support for playing the bowls and then selecting #1 and #2 after the bowls to play a single game.

There was no idea yet what the revenue sharing situation would be.

Even when they did iron it out (post-CUSA expansion) it ended up changing, going from conferences being guaranteed $12 million to conferences being guaranteed $10 million and the performance pool being increased.

The TV situation has as we all know changed.

Given the number of things that are different today vs when the decisions were made I think it is logical that there are a number of athletic directors and presidents saying privately "If we knew then what we know now, we would have done things differently".

Changes in the economic realm of intercollegiate football always triggers realignment.

There was realignment when bus and airplane replaced the train as the primary way to move teams around. When TV dollars and exposure had greater importance under the NCAA contract you saw the SWC add Houston and Pac-8 add Arizona and Arizona State to get more exposures for their conferences because 8 was a bad number when you were capped on how many times you could appear on TV. When conferences began negotiating their own TV we saw teams fleeing independence to join a conference and the Big 10 and SEC and ACC expanded while Big East and CUSA formed in football. When rights fees started driving the TV money we saw this latest round of expansion.

Now down on the fringes of Division I we've seen the Big South add a couple schools who left their conferences to get into cheaper and more compact travel.

I don't think it is an accident that multiple stories have come out USM. They are near the center of CUSA but an outlier within their division. It wouldn't take a lot to put together a group of schools that USM would be near the center of. I don't think it is an accident that ODU has been the flashpoint of a number of stories because it wouldn't take much to convert CUSA East into a relatively compact league for them.

[Cerebus]

2 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

I don't think it is an accident that multiple stories have come out USM. They are near the center of CUSA but an outlier within their division. It wouldn't take a lot to put together a group of schools that USM would be near the center of. I don't think it is an accident that ODU has been the flashpoint of a number of stories because it wouldn't take much to convert CUSA East into a relatively compact league for them.

Where does ArkSt want to end up in all this?

There are a ton of Texas teams situated near/on I35:

• North Texas
• SMU
• TCU
• Baylor
• UT
• Texas St
• UTSA
• aTm
• Rice 
• UH

I bolded the G5 teams, italicized the teams that could possibly be left out of the P4.  That would obviously be a very good regional conference, the I35 Adjacent Conference (IAC).   

There is probably going to be some mix of B12 Cast Outs (BCO) + the best they can get.  My first choice would be to joining the BCO.  My second would be forming the strongest IAC we could.  

Teams like LaTech, ASU, UL, etc could be part of that.  I think LaTech would be interested.  I don't know what UL would want.  I think ASU sees itself as more Eastern oriented.  

 

[unt_rocket09]

TAMU, Rice and UH are not on I35 and really not even close 

[TreeFiddy]

13 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

I went to the googles to check on the timeline.

When CUSA did the six team expansion things were quite a bit different.

Obviously ECU, Tulane, and Tulsa were still in.

But more than that the post-season situation was in the air.

There was general agreement there would be a playoff but it was not yet settled what that would look like and there was a significant amount of support for playing the bowls and then selecting #1 and #2 after the bowls to play a single game.

There was no idea yet what the revenue sharing situation would be.

Even when they did iron it out (post-CUSA expansion) it ended up changing, going from conferences being guaranteed $12 million to conferences being guaranteed $10 million and the performance pool being increased.

The TV situation has as we all know changed.

Given the number of things that are different today vs when the decisions were made I think it is logical that there are a number of athletic directors and presidents saying privately "If we knew then what we know now, we would have done things differently".

Changes in the economic realm of intercollegiate football always triggers realignment.

There was realignment when bus and airplane replaced the train as the primary way to move teams around. When TV dollars and exposure had greater importance under the NCAA contract you saw the SWC add Houston and Pac-8 add Arizona and Arizona State to get more exposures for their conferences because 8 was a bad number when you were capped on how many times you could appear on TV. When conferences began negotiating their own TV we saw teams fleeing independence to join a conference and the Big 10 and SEC and ACC expanded while Big East and CUSA formed in football. When rights fees started driving the TV money we saw this latest round of expansion.

Now down on the fringes of Division I we've seen the Big South add a couple schools who left their conferences to get into cheaper and more compact travel.

I don't think it is an accident that multiple stories have come out USM. They are near the center of CUSA but an outlier within their division. It wouldn't take a lot to put together a group of schools that USM would be near the center of. I don't think it is an accident that ODU has been the flashpoint of a number of stories because it wouldn't take much to convert CUSA East into a relatively compact league for them.

CUSA is already 2 relatively compact conferences (divisions) that share 1 umbrella.  The football teams only have to travel once outside of their division per year.  If the league really wanted to reduce travel costs for oly sports it could be as simple as reducing the amount of cross divisional games. 

The thing holding 2 geographically dispersed divisions under 1 conference umbrella instead of breaking in to multiple conferences is the CFP subsidy that is paid specifically to 5 named football conferences and the NCAA hoops autobid.  The idea of losing the CFP subsidy and NCAA autobid keeps everyone in check.

[wardly]

4 hours ago, GTWT said:

Go west, Mean Green, go west.

We rebuffed the New Mexico Bowl because it was deemed too far for out fans to travel. UNM in Albuquerque is closest MWC school to us.  West is Wrong.

[Cerebus]

6 minutes ago, unt_rocket09 said:

TAMU, Rice and UH are not on I35 and really not even close 

Adjacent-ish.  They are a lot closer to I35 than Tech or UTEP. 

[Arkstfan]

15 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Where does ArkSt want to end up in all this?

There are a ton of Texas teams situated near/on I35:

• North Texas
• SMU
• TCU
• Baylor
• UT
• Texas St
• UTSA
• aTm
• Rice 
• UH

I bolded the G5 teams, italicized the teams that could possibly be left out of the P4.  That would obviously be a very good regional conference, the I35 Adjacent Conference (IAC).   

There is probably going to be some mix of B12 Cast Outs (BCO) + the best they can get.  My first choice would be to joining the BCO.  My second would be forming the strongest IAC we could.  

Teams like LaTech, ASU, UL, etc could be part of that.  I think LaTech would be interested.  I don't know what UL would want.  I think ASU sees itself as more Eastern oriented.  

 

A-State's dream scenario would have us affiliated as far east as Alabama (maybe even Georgia) and if the populated part of Texas is involved, that's gravy. Remember the kid in northern Alabama is as close or closer to A-State as he is South Alabama and Troy. We are 175 miles closer to UAB than UNT and about 110 miles closer to USM than UNT. 30 miles closer to Atlanta than Denton.

[MeanGreenTexan]

17 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Where does ArkSt want to end up in all this?

There are a ton of Texas teams situated near/on I35:

• North Texas
• SMU
• TCU
• Baylor
• UT
• Texas St
• UTSA
• aTm
• Rice 
• UH

I bolded the G5 teams, italicized the teams that could possibly be left out of the P4.  That would obviously be a very good regional conference, the I35 Adjacent Conference (IAC).   

There is probably going to be some mix of B12 Cast Outs (BCO) + the best they can get.  My first choice would be to joining the BCO.  My second would be forming the strongest IAC we could.  

Teams like LaTech, ASU, UL, etc could be part of that.  I think LaTech would be interested.  I don't know what UL would want.  I think ASU sees itself as more Eastern oriented.  

 

Not gonna get A&M to leave SEC?  TX not interested in joining?  Need to get to 12/14?
There'll be more "BCO's" if you go on up 35 a little more & grab the Oklahoma/KS schools also along I35 (OU/OSU/Tulsa/KS/KSSt).