What is really disappointing and ironic

Arkstfan · December 5, 2017

8 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

http://independencebowl.org/general-information/

The official information says nothing of the sort for heirarchy. Maybe your buddy is caught up in the perceptive heirarchy like the rest of the College Football world?

Could be but if that is his perception it may well be the perception of the other selection committee members. The link doesn't disprove there is a pecking order but even if one does no exist de jure that doesn't mean it doesn't exist de facto in that given a choice between La. Tech and Tulane they probably take Tulane or UNT vs. SMU would take SMU or Houston vs. Rice would take Houston.

Now if the choice was UConn or Temple vs UNT or Rice, I think we'd find out whether there is a pecking order by contract in a hurry :)

Arkstfan · December 5, 2017

2 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Couldn't it be said that all G5's who are bowling would all want a P5 opponent?

Do we for certain know FSU didn't want us or is that just more Fake Internet News? And ESPN, too?

ESPN knows what our bowl traveling numbers can be & they'd equal or exceed any other G5 school in our region. Jeez, we travel more bowl fans than we could put inside Apogee Stadium's current capacity.   ESPN also  knows our school is located in the 4'th largest TV market in America, too. ESPN obviously has those on their payrolls they pay well to research & find such information.

NIELSEN RATINGS? Former Dallas Morning News sports writer Cathy Harasta years ago wanted to know if UNT could win a time slot & so she checked the  Nielsen ratings after a televised game vs ULM & we more than commanded a viewing audience for our time slot. * SUMG sent me a DMN blurb on Harasta's Nielsens research & findings for that ULM game years ago so.....that is also not Fake Internet News.

GMG!

ESPN doesn't sell local TV ads. Having a good local audience is a good thing if you are syndicating or talking about regional sports net like Fox SW.

Last year had 1.6 million viewers in a crap time slot. That's good but obviously, Army played a role in that. UNLV - UNT drew 332k which is bad but there were a bunch of huge games starting within the half hour and it was a crap channel so again not terribly helpful.

Nothing there that leaps out and makes me think UNT numbers were a factor.

I think it comes down UNT's preference, the NOLA folks not wanting USM again after having them last year, and contract selection order.

Monkeypox · December 5, 2017

They won't take SMU for the same reason they won't take FAU. No fans.

There's a pecking order, sure, but it's not strictly AAC over CUSA. Right now, they're alternating between CUSA and AAC because there isn't anything in the agreement setting one conference over another.

UNT chose not to gamble, and they were right (from what I've been told). We really had to win the Championship.

PlummMeanGreen · December 5, 2017

4 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

ESPN doesn't sell local TV ads. Having a good local audience is a good thing if you are syndicating or talking about regional sports net like Fox SW.

Last year had 1.6 million viewers in a crap time slot. That's good but obviously, Army played a role in that. UNLV - UNT drew 332k which is bad but there were a bunch of huge games starting within the half hour and it was a crap channel so again not terribly helpful.

Nothing there that leaps out and makes me think UNT numbers were a factor.

I think it comes down UNT's preference, the NOLA folks not wanting USM again after having them last year, and contract selection order.

Don't want to sound rude , but why do you even care what we do at UNT? You are obviously not a UNT fan. Some things you've posted in the past sometimes even had a bit of a condescension to it? We are all impressed with all your friends in high NCAA places, especially being from a state & environment that is hardly known for its progressivism. Honestly, besides Harry & maybe Cerebus, few of us care about anything that happens in your state or at your school. Ever notice how few of us ever visit your school's athletic forum? Do you have statistics on that, too?

Many from UNT felt our upside is greater than being in the Sun Belt was ever going to allow that upside to have s chance to break out as to begin reaching its potential. To a great extent some are now feeling that way about being in CUSA. I personally like the western route TCU took to separate itself from the rest & subsequently land in the Big 12.

Like Gray Eagle recently posted & that being if UNT had just had the normal progression that came with our enrollment & burgeoning population growth, we would have been more than a serious Big 12 consideration. Gray Eagle not one to make such bold statements unless it being a realistic possibility.

Still, sort of American of us wanting to be upwardly mobile & to better our athletic neighborhood might you say? We are in a geographical location & truly have the constituency to do much greater things if our DFW alumnus base & OldDenton will ever wake up & smell the coffee. Some of us (even myself at age 67) still think our school has a superb upside. Guess I'll croak believing it, but hope that won't happen until some of us from the Fry era attain what he had such a grandiose vision for us to attain. (We've had a few detours since he left for Iowa would be quite the understatement).

➡️ OK, the game I was talking about (& I said it in my post) was "years ago" & was on DFW ABC TV affiliate channel 8. Yes, it was in another era especially as being an ABC-TV televised game would indicate, but the point being made was that in the (now) 4'th largest TV market UNT had doubters back then that we couldn't draw flies on any kind of telecast. Cathy Harasta's DMN research & subsequent reporting in her blurb said other-wise.

Last years HOD Bowl game was (as I recall) hardly on one of ESPN's better subscribed cable options so that may have affected our Nielsen ratings alone. It was also a very early 11:00 AM kick, but it didn't matter to me because I was part of a very large & impressive Sea of Green of fans attending the game. I would assume with your astuteness to all things NCAA that you'd know to the tee exactly how many UNT fans were at the game, too; and who knows, possibly the demographics of where each fan originated as well? 🙄

VideoEagle · December 5, 2017

So, the the folks who rate the bowls say the NO bowl is one of the better matchups and most if not all write and NO bowl is a much better game than the Indy bowl.

I just looked on the About page of the Indy and found the list both the American and CUSA as secondary affiliations. While they list the American first, the also list the ACC first over the SEC which makes me think they list alphabetically.

On the CUSA board it was pointed out by someone conferences should fill their primary contracts FIRST and then fill any secondary contracts. I think that just means we have to have TEAMS available for the primaries and not necessarily asign them, but I could be wrong about that.

While I would like to play a P5 team, I honestly think a bowl game SHOULD be between the to best teams based on record and conference finishes as possible. A 10 win team simply deserves a bowl more than a 6-6 team regardless of the conferences involved. Bowls used to reward conference winners and I still like that idea.

We're in a bowl matching the CUSA conference runner up against the Sun Belt Conference winner. That is a good thing. New Orleans is a much better place to visit for teams, coaches and fans when compared to Albequerque or Shreveport. EVERY travel/tourism person would agree on that. You could completely remove Bourbon Street and New Orleans is STILL a much better destination, hands down.

As the moving the NO bowl back a week, sorry but that makes no sense from the Ne Orleans perspective at all. The week AFTER Christmas the entire city is supporting the Sugar Bowl. The whole reason the City was interested in a second bowl in the first place was restaurants, hotels and the other tourist insterests found one of their slowest times was the week BEFORE Christmas. Those same places are fine Christmas weekend, so unless you want a mid-week bowl game you are stuck with the weekend before Christmas. It is all of those New Orleans tourist interests being able to support the NO bowl THAT weekend which help make the NO bowl have what visiting teams like!

MeanGreenTexan · December 5, 2017

14 hours ago, meangreenJW said:

ArkStfan - You are exactly correct. But MeanGreenTexan doesn't want to hear logic and real reasons. He'd rather just run down his school, his conference, his coach, his AD, the players and where they might want to go, the bowl his team is in the and the bowl opponent (who opened a 5 point favorite). Literally, you're pissing in the wind coming here with logic. Welcome to the life of a UNT fan.

Oh Wow! From the guy with 26 posts... I can see how you'd think that.

I don't think this has ever been said about me on here before! I mean, I've been called an RV apologist before, a pom-pom waving fanboy, and other bad things. But I don't think I've ever been put in the '90 boat!
I don't know how to feel. Proud that my opinions have completely run the gamut? Embarrased that I'm lumped in with '90? DGA*?

Stix · December 5, 2017

1 hour ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Don't want to sound rude , but why do you even care what we do at UNT? You are obviously not a UNT fan. Some things you've posted in the past sometimes even had a bit of a condescension to it? We are all impressed with all your friends in high NCAA places, especially being from a state & environment that is hardly known for its progressivism. Honestly, besides Harry & maybe Cerebus, few of us care about anything that happens in your state or at your school. Ever notice how few of us ever visit your school's athletic forum? Do you have statistics on that, too?

Wow, Plumm... Is this the reaction you're expecting from @Arkstfan?

Edited December 5, 2017 by Stix

Aldo · December 5, 2017

1 hour ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Honestly, besides Harry & maybe Cerebus, few of us care about anything that happens in your state or at your school. Ever notice how few of us ever visit your school's athletic forum? Do you have statistics on that, too

*Hides personalized picture of Grant McCasland back in pocket*

Aldo · December 5, 2017

10 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Couldn't it be said that all G5's who are bowling would all want a P5 opponent?

Do we for certain know FSU didn't want us or is that just more Fake Internet News? And ESPN, too?

ESPN knows what our bowl traveling numbers can be & they'd equal or exceed any other G5 school in our region. Jeez, we travel more bowl fans than we could put inside Apogee Stadium's current capacity.   ESPN also  knows our school is located in the 4'th largest TV market in America, too. ESPN obviously has those on their payrolls they pay well to research & find such information.

NIELSEN RATINGS? Former Dallas Morning News sports writer Cathy Harasta years ago wanted to know if UNT could win a time slot & so she checked the  Nielsen ratings after a televised game vs ULM & we more than commanded a viewing audience for our time slot. * SUMG sent me a DMN blurb on Harasta's Nielsens research & findings for that ULM game years ago so.....that is also not Fake Internet News.

GMG!

I guess we should be grateful we're playing Troy?

http://collegesports.blog.statesman.com/2017/01/13/bowl-tv-ratings-viewers-for-2016-17-games/

MeanGreenTexan · December 5, 2017

7 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Could be but if that is his perception it may well be the perception of the other selection committee members. The link doesn't disprove there is a pecking order but even if one does no exist de jure that doesn't mean it doesn't exist de facto in that given a choice between La. Tech and Tulane they probably take Tulane or UNT vs. SMU would take SMU or Houston vs. Rice would take Houston.

Now if the choice was UConn or Temple vs UNT or Rice, I think we'd find out whether there is a pecking order by contract in a hurry :)

Now we're really cooking!
I'm not disagreeing with anything you said here, because I know where C-USA/UNT stands in that ghost hierarchy.
And to keep my promise yesterday, I wont try and expound anymore.

Arkstfan · December 5, 2017

5 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Don't want to sound rude , but why do you even care what we do at UNT? You are obviously not a UNT fan.  Some things you've posted in the past sometimes even had a bit of a condescension to it? We are all impressed with all your friends in high NCAA places, especially being from a state & environment that is hardly known for its progressivism. Honestly, besides Harry & maybe Cerebus, few of us care about anything that happens in your state or at your school. Ever notice how few of us ever visit your school's athletic forum? Do you have statistics on that, too?

Many  from UNT felt our upside is greater than being in the Sun Belt was ever going to allow that upside to have s chance to break out as to begin reaching its potential. To a great extent some are now feeling that way about being in CUSA. I personally like the western route TCU took to separate itself from the rest & subsequently land in the Big 12.

Like Gray Eagle recently posted & that being if UNT had just had the normal progression that came with our enrollment & burgeoning population growth, we would have been more than a serious Big 12 consideration. Gray Eagle not one to make such bold statements unless it being a realistic possibility.

Still, sort of American of us wanting to be upwardly mobile & to better our athletic neighborhood might you say? We are in a geographical location & truly have the constituency to do much greater things if our DFW alumnus base & OldDenton will ever wake up & smell the coffee. Some of us (even myself at age 67) still think our school has a superb upside. Guess I'll croak believing it, but hope that won't happen until some of us from the Fry era attain what he had such a grandiose vision for us to attain. (We've had a few detours since he left for Iowa would be quite the understatement).

➡️ OK, the game I was talking about (& I said it in my post) was "years ago" & was on DFW ABC TV affiliate channel 8. Yes, it was in another era especially as being an ABC-TV televised game would indicate, but the point being made was that in the (now) 4'th largest TV market UNT had doubters back then that we couldn't draw flies on any kind of telecast. Cathy Harasta's  DMN research & subsequent reporting in her blurb said  other-wise.

Last years HOD Bowl game was (as I recall) hardly on one of ESPN's better subscribed cable options so that may have affected our Nielsen ratings alone.  It was also a very early 11:00 AM kick, but it didn't matter to me because I was part of a very large & impressive Sea of Green of fans attending the game. I would assume with your astuteness to all things NCAA that you'd know to the tee exactly how many UNT fans were at the game, too; and who knows, possibly the demographics of where each fan originated as well? 🙄

I posted relevant data to the conversation because local data ain't relevant to the big picture.

I am friends with some people here. I drop in and visit and the only reason I came over in the first place was to make the post about looking at the box score of A-State and Troy and what may be inferred with UNT having an offense derived from the same coaching tree.

When I logged in I saw I had been tagged in threads I had not participated in and responded.

FirefightnRick · December 5, 2017

2 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

I posted relevant data to the conversation because local data ain't relevant to the big picture.

I am friends with some people here. I drop in and visit and the only reason I came over in the first place was to make the post about looking at the box score of A-State and Troy and what may be inferred with UNT having an offense derived from the same coaching tree.

When I logged in I saw I had been tagged in threads I had not participated in and responded.

I don't have to post this but will anyways. You and I have conversed on GMG.com for what......17, 18 years now? (Damn has it been that long?). So you know where I stand, and should know that I and most of us always appreciate having you and your opinions here.

Rick

gangrene · December 6, 2017

I don't have the time to read through the 5 pages of responses (maybe later), but I would like to explain my feelings about this bowl, since I shared my disappointment in another thread.

1. Playing in the Super Dome is fantastic - no issue with the bowl or the city. Unfortunately, I'll have to watch it on TV as I have kids activities that interfere with my ability to travel to the see game in person. (Selfishly, I'd have preferred the Frisco Bowl to the NO Bowl, even though I view it as a less attractive bowl).

2. I have no issues with Troy and congratulate them on a great season.

However, I very much dislike the match-up of Troy vs. UNT. It has zero national prominence and I feel both schools deserved the chance to "prove" themselves against a P5 school. I think both schools will gain little to nothing, in terms of national recognition or recruiting, by winning this bowl. Being ranked 32nd "most entertaining" of 40 bowl games by ESPN (A viewer's guide to the most entertaining bowl games) seems to validate my opinion. That said, all CUSA teams except USM got pretty crappy match-ups, in my opinion. But, I'd much rather watch a game in New Orleans than Shreveport.

There are too many P5 schools with 6-6 or 7-5 records playing each other, rather than playing against non-P5 schools with better records.

PlummMeanGreen · December 6, 2017

18 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

I posted relevant data to the conversation because local data ain't relevant to the big picture.

I am friends with some people here. I drop in and visit and the only reason I came over in the first place was to make the post about looking at the box score of A-State and Troy and what may be inferred with UNT having an offense derived from the same coaching tree.

When I logged in I saw I had been tagged in threads I had not participated in and responded.

Wednesday, 12-6-17

ArkStFan:

My sincere & deepest apology. You did not deserve what I said & the way I said it. I am having a terrifically bad Fall/Winter with 2 major surgeries on the way dealing with Diabetes-related issues. My emotions have been a roller coaster of late. Again, I do apologize. Best wishes for you & the passion you have for your fine school & its (successful) athletic program.

Sincerely, PMG

Edited December 6, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

MattMakesLoans · December 6, 2017

33 minutes ago, gangrene said:

I think both schools will gain little to nothing, in terms of national recognition or recruiting, by winning this bowl.

G5s don’t recruit nationally, half the P5s don’t recruit nationally.

They said on the broadcast during the championship game that SL’s recruiting focus is the 4 metroplex counties.

But it takes Bowl experiences out of DFW to help entice future local recruits.

greenminer · December 6, 2017

3 hours ago, gangrene said:

However, I very much dislike the match-up of Troy vs. UNT. It has zero national prominence

Several online rankings put the NO Bowl matchup ahead of all the other CUSA bowls, including Indi and FSU.

Arkstfan · December 6, 2017

12 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Wednesday, 12-6-17

ArkStFan:

My sincere & deepest apology. You did not deserve what I said & the way I said it. I am having a terrifically bad Fall/Winter with 2 major surgeries on the way dealing with Diabetes-related issues. My emotions have been a roller coaster of late. Again, I do apologize. Best wishes for you & the passion you have for your fine school & its (successful) athletic program.

Sincerely, PMG

Do me a favor. TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

I got goosebumps when your wrote that. I know you know all the bit but anyone else reading. Follow the diabetes guidelines like you saw them brought down from the mountain from God himself. One of my fraternity brothers never took it seriously. One weekend his girlfriend went to visit her parents and couldn't get in touch with him and dashed back and he was in their house in a diabetic coma and died a few days later. A young man who once worked for me didn't take it seriously blacked out more than once. It was just tremendous fortune that the last time he blacked out he didn't kill the two people in the car he crossed the center line and hit and didn't kill his three year old daughter but she will likely have no real memories of her father.

Please if you have diabetes or know someone with diabetes, take it seriously.

Best of luck in your recovery and you have my prayers.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Arkstfan

PlummMeanGreen · December 6, 2017

41 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Do me a favor. TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

I got goosebumps when your wrote that. I know you know all the bit but anyone else reading. Follow the diabetes guidelines like you saw them brought down from the mountain from God himself. One of my fraternity brothers never took it seriously. One weekend his girlfriend went to visit her parents and couldn't get in touch with him and dashed back and he was in their house in a diabetic coma and died a few days later. A young man who once worked for me didn't take it seriously blacked out more than once. It was just tremendous fortune that the last time he blacked out he didn't kill the two people in the car he crossed the center line and hit and didn't kill his three year old daughter but she will likely have no real memories of her father.

Please if you have diabetes or know someone with diabetes, take it seriously.

Best of luck in your recovery and you have my prayers.

Duly noted & duly appreciated, Arkstfan. You are showing the class I was once known to have (but was still very opinionated, of course). I'm at the eye surgeon even now waiting for further marching orders. (Glaucoma & cataracts it is).

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas & Happy Hannaka (that should cover it, right)?🙃

Arkstfan · December 6, 2017

36 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Duly noted & duly appreciated, Arkstfan. You are showing the class I was once known to have (but was still very opinionated, of course). I'm at the eye surgeon even now waiting for further marching orders. (Glaucoma & cataracts it is).

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas & Happy Hannaka (that should cover it, right)?🙃

Move to Arkansas. We are getting medical pot eventually. Though the studies show that glaucoma patients who try pot end up being more compliant with their meds because they notice how fast pot wears off. (Weird fact of the day).

My 85 year old father had cataract surgery, has better vision than I do now so hope that works out.

Glad you aren't dealing with retinopathy with the diabetes. Not a lot they can do other than laser surgery to stop the decline but can't bring back what you lose.

GrandGreen · December 6, 2017

14 hours ago, MattMakesLoans said:

G5s don’t recruit nationally, half the P5s don’t recruit nationally.

They said on the broadcast during the championship game that SL’s recruiting focus is the 4 metroplex counties.

But it takes Bowl experiences out of DFW to help entice future local recruits.

I have no idea if what they said is true, but I don't think it is a message that portrays actual recruiting. It that is their focus, NT doesn't do very good at it.

Cerebus · December 6, 2017

gangrene · December 6, 2017

14 hours ago, MattMakesLoans said:

G5s don’t recruit nationally, half the P5s don’t recruit nationally.

They said on the broadcast during the championship game that SL’s recruiting focus is the 4 metroplex counties.

But it takes Bowl experiences out of DFW to help entice future local recruits.

What's more impressive to a local recruit, a win over UCLA or a win over Troy?

MeanGreen_MBA · December 6, 2017

14 minutes ago, gangrene said:

What's more impressive to a local recruit, a win over UCLA or a win over Troy?

going to a Bowl game in a destination city.....

Aldo · December 6, 2017

13 minutes ago, gangrene said:

What's more impressive to a local recruit, a win over UCLA or a win over Troy?

I mean what kind of answer do you expect? Do you like moldy cheese or unexpired cheese?

What kind of hypothetical is it to say would you prefer this what was given or something better?

But back to your point, if the recruit isn't looking at the big picture then we're doing a terrible job recruiting.

DeepGreen · December 6, 2017

Our objective this year was having a better record than in 2016. Mission accomplished.

icing on the cake was winning CUSA West. We achieved Bowl eligibility with a 9-3 record. We’re in a bowl at a great destinitation city. Our next objective is to win that bowl game.

Baby steps.