What is really disappointing and ironic

Arkstfan · December 4, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Are you saying the Indy Bowl had such a strong "want" for USM over UNT that they would put their foot down? I don't buy that, especially when representatives from their committee were at Apogee taking in a fantastic show.

And C-USA is the 1st alternate for that bowl by contract, not the AAC.
They would have likely rather invited an AAC team (who had enough eligible teams to fill that spot) again, based on AAC's perception of being better than C-USA... but couldn't, because C-USA could fulfill it's obligation to the bowl as the 1st alternate.

Completely missed my point.

Independence ain't your bowl partner until at least two other conferences come up short. They are at the tail end. NOLA is your partner

SilverEagle · December 4, 2017

49 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

For those unhappy about the opponent.

Sorry you think a Sun Belt champion who beat LSU is beneath you. Check Big Lots they usually have a good deal on mirrors, buy one and put it to use.

For those who don't want to travel to New Orleans. Yeah it's got it's faults but it is loaded with history, great food and if debauchery is your thing, they can assist with that as well.

The measure of the value of a program is not its capacity to drive across town. It is the capacity to get fans on the road. This is an opportunity to bolster UNT's reputation. It is not an insult nor a put-down. It's a compliment but such is the state of America in 2017 that a compliment causes people to feel insulted.

My perspective on this is (surprise, surprise) cultural. More specifically cultural change. I've talked about this for years, but to review, HISTORICALLY North Texas doesn't look at sports and/or school spirit the same as other schools. And the reason for that is cultural. Historically, our administrators have not viewed sports in the same way as other schools of our size in Texas. Sports was always viewed as a nice diversion, but not all that important by our administrators. They not only discouraged giving money to the sports programs, but until Hayden Fry came along, it was forbidden. As was giving money to the school. Which is why our endowment fund is so pathetic(144 mil) because it didn't get started until around the 70's.

So, cultural change is finally happening......albeit gradually. It has almost never been the expectation of our program to participate in bowl games until we started (at the bottom) with the NO bowl. It was a delight for many people on this board, but we only won one of those four trips. And that did very little to attract the fence setters.......which describes most of our 200k( by some estimates) metroplex graduates.

Like or not, but a trip to NO is a big investment for any fence setter. Especially against a school that they might regard as not very interesting.

We had 40K show up to the HOD to watch us play another not very interesting opponent UNLV......move the cultural change needle forward a little bit. For us 40K is a lot of potential change.

We tanked our next two seasons, and with the Portland St. game, we almost returned (perception wise) to the pre-NO bowl days. Move the cultural needle back to before the first NO bowl.

Then we make a coaching and AD hiring splash and go (unexpectedly) to the HOD bowl against a credible opponent, and put on a hell of a show for another 40K (real and fence setting) fans. As a result we had a record attendance this year whilst having an undefeated home season. Move the cultural change needle back to right after the first HOD bowl.....or further.

You might think that some of us who don't like this years bowl selection are catering to lazy people who don't want to be bothered with anything more inconvenient than a drive across the metroplex.

But I see another local (or close by) bowl, with a more "credible" opponent, as a great opportunity to change bad habits (or create new habits) and move the cultural change needle even further forward.

The experts at Weight Watchers say that it takes a motivated adult 27 days to change a bad habit. I shutter to think about how that might apply to our historical time line.

Arkstfan · December 4, 2017

16 minutes ago, Green Lantern said:

Please ignore the butt hurt on here. There are a TON of us that are pumped about going to New Orleans to play Troy. We know that they're quality just like ASU, App, ect. This game has the potential to be one of the most fun G5 matchups. I think its great for the NO Bowl that they're getting to match a 10 win and 9 win team against each other to kick bowl season off. Going to be a great weekend!

Hell people on this board bitched about going to NOLA when it was as conference champ. I don't expect any difference now.

By my count there are six former Sun Belt schools in bowls this year and four are facing Sun Belt teams.

Arkstfan · December 4, 2017

1 minute ago, SilverEagle said:

My perspective on this is (surprise, surprise) cultural. More specifically cultural change. I've talked about this for years, but to review, HISTORICALLY North Texas doesn't look at sports and/or school spirit the same as other schools. And the reason for that is cultural. Historically, our administrators have not viewed sports in the same way as other schools of our size in Texas. Sports was always viewed as a nice diversion, but not all that important by our administrators. They not only discouraged giving money to the sports programs, but until Hayden Fry came along, it was forbidden. As was giving money to the school. Which is why our endowment fund is so pathetic(144 mil) because it didn't get started until around the 70's.

So, cultural change is finally happening......albeit gradually. It has almost never been the expectation of our program to participate in bowl games until we started (at the bottom) with the NO bowl. It was a delight for many people on this board, but we only won one of those four trips. And that did very little to attract the fence setters.......which describes most of our 200k( by some estimates) metroplex graduates.

Like or not, but a trip to NO is a big investment for any fence setter. Especially against a school that they might regard as not very interesting.

We had 40K show up to the HOD to watch us play another not very interesting opponent UNLV......move the cultural change needle forward a little bit. For us 40K is a lot of potential change.

We tanked our next two seasons, and with the Portland St. game, we almost returned (perception wise) to the pre-NO bowl days. Move the cultural needle back to before the first NO bowl.

Then we make a coaching and AD hiring splash and go (unexpectedly) to the HOD bowl against a credible opponent, and put on a hell of a show for another 40K (real and fence setting) fans. As a result we had a record attendance this year whilst having an undefeated home season. Move the cultural change needle back to right after the first HOD bowl.....or further.

You might think that some of us who don't like this years bowl selection are catering to lazy people who don't want to be bothered with anything more inconvenient than a drive across the metroplex.

But I see another local (or close by) bowl, with a more "credible" opponent, as a great opportunity to change bad habits (or create new habits) and move the cultural change needle even further forward.

The experts at Weight Watchers say that it takes a motivated adult 27 days to change a bad habit. I shutter to think about how that might apply to our historical time line.

Thing is I'm not sure that there were great options.

HOD went Pac-12 vs. Big XII so a CUSA wasn't going to be on the table.

Armed Forces MWC finally produced a team and Army was available so not on the table.

Frisco was open on one side but its in a tiny stadium so no pressing need on their part to take UNT and it would have been a rematch.

That pretty much left NOLA as the best available bowl and the only way around that to get to Shreveport would have been to shaft the NOLA who has stuck with CUSA and helped CUSA more than once in a sticky situation. I am sure Florida State is pleased because USM is a name familiar to the old line fans (Florida State had a losing record against USM until 1976).

Green Lantern · December 4, 2017

4 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Hell people on this board bitched about going to NOLA when it was as conference champ. I don't expect any difference now.

By my count there are six former Sun Belt schools in bowls this year and four are facing Sun Belt teams.

I hear ya man. It’s sad that there’s so much squabbling between the G5 teams when in reality we’re all just being distracted from the real villains in the P5. That’s the way they want it too. Maddening that we all can’t see that.

MeanGreenTexan · December 4, 2017

5 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Completely missed my point.

Independence ain't your bowl partner until at least two other conferences come up short. They are at the tail end. NOLA is your partner

Correction. 1 other conference... and they did (SEC), as evidenced by a C-USA team being there to fill the SEC spot due to contractual obligations.
NOLA is also UAB/Marshall/USM/FIU's partner! Any of those teams would also be a fine selection for that bowl. UAB decided they wanted to go to the Bahamas. That's their prerogative.
Only 1 SBC team has a shot at a P5 team this bowl season, and it's 4th-place Southern Miss. That sucks.

UNTLifer · December 4, 2017

10 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Hell people on this board bitched about going to NOLA when it was as conference champ. I don't expect any difference now.

By my count there are six former Sun Belt schools in bowls this year and four are facing Sun Belt teams.

Thanks. How are things on the A-State board?

What I don't get, if the bowls want teams that travel, why not put us in the Independence Bowl, just a short drive from Denton and USM in NOLA, short drive from their campus?

Arkstfan · December 4, 2017

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

Correction. 1 other conference... and they did (SEC), as evidenced by a C-USA team being there to fill the SEC spot due to contractual obligations.
NOLA is also UAB/Marshall/USM/FIU's partner! Any of those teams would also be a fine selection for that bowl. UAB decided they wanted to go to the Bahamas. That's their prerogative.
Only 1 SBC team has a shot at a P5 team this bowl season, and it's 4th-place Southern Miss. That sucks.

No correction. I-Bowl has TWO back-ups. AAC has to be unable to fill the back-up position before CUSA can send a team.

Arkstfan · December 4, 2017

Just now, UNTLifer said:

Thanks. How are things on the A-State board?

What I don't get, if the bowls want teams that travel, why not put us in the Independence Bowl, just a short drive from Denton and USM in NOLA, short drive from their campus?

What Shreveport wants is irrelevant to CUSA until I-Bowl pays to be higher up the pecking order of CUSA teams.

UNTLifer · December 4, 2017

Missed my point, if these bowls want the stands full, then make it easy for the fans to get there. I'm not going to NOLA because I would be out a grand before I ever purchased tickets.

TreeFiddy · December 4, 2017

1 minute ago, Arkstfan said:

No correction. I-Bowl has TWO back-ups. AAC has to be unable to fill the back-up position before CUSA can send a team.

I would like to verify that statement. I am not sure if there is a pecking order. I remember CUSA announcing the backup agreement first and then AAC coming in later, but never saw/read anything regarding pecking order.

AAC was in a similar situation this year. They allowed the Liberty Bowl to come in and cherry pick Memphis ahead of all other AAC bowls so it is not without precedence. Not sure how Independence Bowl (being higher on the totem pole) is any different than what Liberty Bowl and AAC just did. I don't see the AAC bowls giving the AAC the boot. It is just the way things are. All conferences are (should be) trying to get their teams in the bowls that give them the highest exposure, even when they have to wait around to see if there is going to be a spot.

I see the Independence Bowl as being one of those for CUSA. If there is a chance to get in and play a P5, it will almost always be a more desirable option, just like it was for Memphis and the Liberty Bowl this year.

MeanGreenTexan · December 4, 2017

6 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

No correction. I-Bowl has TWO back-ups. AAC has to be unable to fill the back-up position before CUSA can send a team.

I believe you have this backwards partner, although I'll be durned if I cannot find anything in concrete saying so online.

MeanGreenTexan · December 4, 2017

https://southernmiss.forums.rivals.com/forums/the-loyalty-board.6/

I can't read through any threads, because it's all apparently "premium content", but the topic titles seem to indicate USM fans feel like they got the best bowl of all C-USA teams.

They also seemed pretty butt-hurt over NT being in the C-USA championship game & getting killed, ever so sure they'd fare better.

@Harry, I remember you used to link all of the opposing teams' message boards, but can't find it ATM. Is that the right one for USM?

greenminer · December 4, 2017

The Indy Bowl had leverage over FSU? New to me. Even if FSU is one of the last eligible teams placed, I don't think the Indy reps would risk losing them by trying to force an opponent on them, unless we know for sure FSU would have had to stay home.

IMO, FSU asking for USM is the only way to make sense of FAU or UNT not being there.

MeanGreenTexan · December 4, 2017

2 minutes ago, greenminer said:

The Indy Bowl had leverage over FSU? New to me. Even if FSU is one of the last eligible teams placed, I don't think the Indy reps would risk losing them by trying to force an opponent on them, unless we know for sure FSU would have had to stay home.

IMO, FSU asking for USM is the only way to make sense of FAU or UNT not being there.

FSU was the last bowl-eligible team in the ACC. The Independence Bowl is the last bowl on the ACC totem pole. FSU was assigned that bowl game, they did not choose it, & of course the Independence Bowl is going to love having them there instead of Boston College or some other middle ACC team, simply because of their history! C-USA/FAU-UNT had the exact same rights to the game as the ACC/FSU, due to SEC not being able to fill their spot in the bowl.

No way to know for sure, except to call their threats. I bet FSU would try as hard as they could to push ESPN to help them move some bowls around to get a better matchup somewhere else & ESPN probably wouldn't bite, since FSU is 6-6 (BARELY) and don't hold as much sway as they normally do.

I'd almost be willing to bet it was "Take this bowl, or stay home". The ACC wasn't going to help them leapfrog other ACC teams in their choosing order, as that would be entirely unfair to the other schools that beat them.

FSU put up some strong smoke/mirrors & relied on their history to bully the Independence Bowl committee, C-USA, or both. Someone folded under that faux pressure. And NT took the best available option left.

TreeFiddy · December 4, 2017

I would be curious to know what type of options FSU (any team) had in that scenario. If they choose to stay home are they or the conference on the hook to the bowl for any money or are they free to choose to stay home (i.e. decline the invite).

UNT Five&Dime · December 4, 2017

To make me feel better, I’m telling myself it’s all to maximize ticket sales, interest in the bowls and wins for the conference.

Neither us nor USM is going to move the needle of the casual fan for the Independence Bowl. FSU is doing all that. Ticket sales, again neither of us are going to outdo the other significantly there.

That leaves potential wins. I think we have the better win probability against Troy.

This is also why FAU is playing at home. Ticket sales. Poor bastards.

Arkstfan · December 4, 2017

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I believe you have this backwards partner, although I'll be durned if I cannot find anything in concrete saying so online.

That's what a member of the I-Bowl selection committee told me. If you have something to the contrary let me know.

MeanGreenTexan · December 4, 2017

34 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

That's what a member of the I-Bowl selection committee told me. If you have something to the contrary let me know.

http://independencebowl.org/general-information/

Quote

The Independence Bowl extended it’s primary partnerships with the SEC and ACC through the 2019 season, and also signed secondary agreements with Conference USA and the American Athletic Conference through 2019.

The official information says nothing of the sort for heirarchy. Maybe your buddy is caught up in the perceptive heirarchy like the rest of the College Football world?

meangreenJW · December 4, 2017

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Correction. 1 other conference... and they did (SEC), as evidenced by a C-USA team being there to fill the SEC spot due to contractual obligations.
NOLA is also UAB/Marshall/USM/FIU's partner! Any of those teams would also be a fine selection for that bowl. UAB decided they wanted to go to the Bahamas. That's their prerogative.
Only 1 SBC team has a shot at a P5 team this bowl season, and it's 4th-place Southern Miss. That sucks.

ArkStfan - You are exactly correct. But MeanGreenTexan doesn't want to hear logic and real reasons. He'd rather just run down his school, his conference, his coach, his AD, the players and where they might want to go, the bowl his team is in the and the bowl opponent (who opened a 5 point favorite). Literally, you're pissing in the wind coming here with logic. Welcome to the life of a UNT fan.

meangreenJW · December 4, 2017

4 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Thanks. How are things on the A-State board?

What I don't get, if the bowls want teams that travel, why not put us in the Independence Bowl, just a short drive from Denton and USM in NOLA, short drive from their campus?

USM was in NOLA last year for one. Doubtful they wanted to go back and doubtful NOLA wanted the same team.

meangreanmick · December 4, 2017

On 12/2/2017 at 10:15 PM, UNT Five&Dime said:

Am I okay as a fan since I supported the team in Boca Raton today even though I won’t be going to a bowl the CUSA runner-up has no business playing in? Please let me know. K, thanks.

(In the voice of the Dr from Hangover). Actually ............., no, your not.

But A+ for the sarcasm, so probably a B average, which is solid.

Monkeypox · December 5, 2017

Both conferences have backup agreements. It's up to the Bowl and the conferences. CUSA negotiated theirs first, so there was no mention of AAC in theirs.

The Bowl's current solution is set up to alternate, but obviously it depends on outcomes. Last time, Tulsa was chosen, so it was supposedly CUSA's turn around. However, with the extra bowl tie-ins the AAC has, I don't know if they'll come up as often as CUSA (who has fewer primary and secondary agreements), if only for location. Independence would love to just pick between La Tech and USM in this situation.

I was also told that North Texas' CHOICE was The New Orleans Bowl, but it was likely the smart move (as they took the bird in hand). The situation (as relayed to me) was that had UNT won the CUSA Championship, they would have been no-brainers, but the committee was pulling for Southern Miss vs Marshall because that was the Bowl's preference.

So our loss and USM's win are what put us where we are.

I had to INFER that UNT jumped on the NO Bowl before the Independence made their invite, which is disappointing, but they also read the tea leaves correctly.

PlummMeanGreen · December 5, 2017

8 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

What I don't get, if the bowls want teams that travel, why not put us in the Independence Bowl, just a short drive from Denton and USM in NOLA, short drive from their campus?

Exactly.

Oh well.🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited December 5, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

PlummMeanGreen · December 5, 2017

11 hours ago, Aldo said:

Don't matter what we want. FSU didn't want us, ESPN didn't want us.

So we here.

Couldn't it be said that all G5's who are bowling would all want a P5 opponent?

Do we for certain know FSU didn't want us or is that just more Fake Internet News? And ESPN, too?

ESPN knows what our bowl traveling numbers can be & they'd equal or exceed any other G5 school in our region. Jeez, we travel more bowl fans than we could put inside Apogee Stadium's current capacity. ESPN also knows our school is located in the 4'th largest TV market in America, too. ESPN obviously has those on their payrolls they pay well to research & find such information.

NIELSEN RATINGS? Former Dallas Morning News sports writer Cathy Harasta years ago wanted to know if UNT could win a time slot & so she checked the Nielsen ratings after a televised game vs ULM & we more than commanded a viewing audience for our time slot. * SUMG sent me a DMN blurb on Harasta's Nielsens research & findings for that ULM game years ago so.....that is also not Fake Internet News.

GMG!

Edited December 5, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen