MGN: on Beat Writers and SL's time

aztecskin · November 20, 2017

https://meangreennation.com/seth-littrell-rumors-and-beat-writer-columns/

MeanGreenZen · November 21, 2017

Fantastic post aztecskin. Lol, don't understand why Brett is putting a tombstone over Seth Littrell's tenure in Denton.

Could a P5 fall in love with him and lure him away? Sure, but not very likely this year.

Seth doesn't recruit on a P5 level and he sure doesn't media interview at that level. Heck, a P5 might ban him from dipping snuff on the sidelines.

Littrell ain't Chip Kelly and would be a tough sell to P5 donors. Now if he wins like this again next year, Little Guys Movers might be pulling up to Litrell Manor.

What Brett failed to mention is that for the first time ever, the infrastructure of school administration, fan support and donor $$$ is actually in place to sustain this level of success with or without Littrell.

Edited November 21, 2017 by MeanGreenZen

oldguystudent · November 21, 2017

Quote

not necessarily the coaches (although one or two of the coaches contributed to the suffering)

ZIIIIINNNNNG!

PlummMeanGreen · November 21, 2017

59 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

https://meangreennation.com/seth-littrell-rumors-and-beat-writer-columns/

Been around all this Mean Green business almost half a century. Off & on but mostly on.

I turn 99 this week (kiddin') but I've rarely seen our situation so well put together & well stated.

👍👍

Yes, a media coach could be in order for all concerned. More winning will mean more TV interviews-- for coaches & players.

Edited November 21, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

meaniegreenie · November 21, 2017

1 hour ago, aztecskin said:

https://meangreennation.com/seth-littrell-rumors-and-beat-writer-columns/

Wow. Nine thumbs up. I took one away since your editor took a coffee break for a few paragraphs after "Ben Baby".

greenjoe · November 21, 2017

I didn't mind so much what he said but the timing at which he said it.

Win.

GO MEAN GREEN

aztecskin · November 21, 2017

24 minutes ago, meaniegreenie said:

Wow. Nine thumbs up. I took one away since your editor took a coffee break for a few paragraphs after "Ben Baby".

I think my editor hates me and is trying to make me look bad.

tmjerm · November 21, 2017

Nice write up. I was upset about the timing of BV’s article too but not too mad at him for it. Part of his job to convey current situations to the readers of DRC (of which only a certain, small percentage are invested in our program). I’ve visited with him and believe he is a guy that roots for the MG (after all it behooves him for us to be good) and found him to be a pretty positive person...However, that was poor timing and there wasn’t much meat on the bone to the article (eg What schools make sense for SL? I’d throw Tennessee in the mix but don’t think that’d happen). I believe, as many of you do, that SL still has plenty to prove to AD’s around the country who can present a better offer...but what a great problem to have!!! Especially considering we have an AD who has the energy and priorities to make it work if it can. My opinion is that Seth stays this yr at least and if anyone hires GH (though he’s proven a lot this yr) as head coach they’re an idiot.

MeanGreenZen · November 21, 2017

While I believe Seth will stay, I think he will def be in the market for a new OC this offseason.

Graham Harrell had his growing pains and awkward stage and now he is all growns up.

When you combine our offensive production this season with his pedigree as a Texas HS and college legend plus a BIG FAT Super Bowl ring that equals a PAYDAY from some lucky P5.

Heck, he'd be a homerun hire as an offensive coordinator for the boosters at any program in the country. Especially after they see how he turned a 5 foot 10 QB with no other scholarship offers into one of the best players in the country.

Losing assistant coaches is just part of being a successful football program at every level from NFL to high school.

Edited November 21, 2017 by MeanGreenZen

breaker110 · November 21, 2017

Yea this is the way I see it. Never trade freedom for security. If Seth leaves we are free to hire another.

aztecskin · November 21, 2017

15 minutes ago, MeanGreenZen said:

While I believe Seth will stay, I think he will def be in the market for a new OC this offseason.

Graham Harrell had his growing pains and awkward stage and now he is all growns up.

When you combine our offensive production this season with his pedigree as a Texas HS and college legend plus a BIG FAT Super Bowl ring that equals a PAYDAY from some lucky P5.

Heck, he'd be a homerun hire as an offensive coordinator for the boosters at any program in the country. Especially after they see how he turned a 5 foot 10 QB with no other scholarship offers into one of the best players in the country.

Losing assistant coaches is just part of being a successful football program at every level from NFL to high school.

Yeah I mentioned this on twitter today. WVU is not having fun with Jake Spavital and I wonder if Dana takes a peek at Graham Harrell for the gig.

emmitt01 · November 21, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenZen said:

While I believe Seth will stay, I think he will def be in the market for a new OC this offseason.

Graham Harrell had his growing pains and awkward stage and now he is all growns up.

When you combine our offensive production this season with his pedigree as a Texas HS and college legend plus a BIG FAT Super Bowl ring that equals a PAYDAY from some lucky P5.

Heck, he'd be a homerun hire as an offensive coordinator for the boosters at any program in the country. Especially after they see how he turned a 5 foot 10 QB with no other scholarship offers into one of the best players in the country.

Losing assistant coaches is just part of being a successful football program at every level from NFL to high school.

That 5'10" quarterback was the two-time Gatorade Oklahoma player of the year. The only thing standing between him and LOTS of scholly offers was 3-4 inches of height.

Fine isn't some miracle story that GH made happen.

MeanGreenZen · November 21, 2017

13 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

That 5'10" quarterback was the two-time Gatorade Oklahoma player of the year. The only thing standing between him and LOTS of scholly offers was 3-4 inches of height.

Fine isn't some miracle story that GH made happen.

Look out that window. You could pack Apogee with record-setting 5 foot 10 high school QBs. Not many of them turn into all-conference college signal callers.

You think Mason is putting up these numbers in a Mike Canales offense?

No coach can take ALL the credit for a player's success. But there isn't much arguement that Graham Harrell hasn't maximized Mason Fine's potential.

Harrell (and Littrell) also get credit for FINDING Mason Fine.

Edited November 21, 2017 by MeanGreenZen

emmitt01 · November 21, 2017

1 minute ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Look out that window. You could pack Apogee with record-setting 5 foot 10 high school QBs. Not many of them turn into all-conference college signal callers.

You think Mason is putting up these numbers in a Mike Canales offense?

No coach can take ALL the credit for a player's success. But there isn't much arguement that Graham Harrell hasn't maximized Mason Fine's potential.

With these receivers? Yes, I think he excels in a Mike Canales offense.

And he excels because Fine is special. Like, once in a generation of Mean Green fandom special. His desire to score on every drive, not some drives but EVERY drive, and the look on his face when he doesn't is what makes him special.

Make no mistake, GH is a good or maybe great coach. But he didn't MAKE Mason Fine

UNT90 · November 21, 2017

10 hours ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Harrell (and Littrell) also get credit for FINDING Mason Fine.

Good Lord. Revisionist history much? They didn’t find Fine, Fine’s coaches found them. They were desperately trying to find Fine a FBS scholarship. Littrell was desperate after not being able to find a QB his first class and knowing that he had maybe one QB on the roster that was worth an FBS scholarship.

Two desperate parties got together and made a magical match.

Glad Littrell took that call. Too bad his staff didn’t take or return a call from another coach. They would have been much deeper at DT, a position of need.

Here is Vito’s more sane article on Fine’s offer and immediate acceptance. Notice how late in the recruiting game it was:

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2016/01/26/unt-notebook-oklahoma-qb-commits-to-unt

I know people on this site love to lie to themselves, but how about knowing little history on your team.

Also, chillax. The only offer Littrell would get that he would consider is SMU if Morris got hired by a P5 (yes, he is currently WAY ahead of Littrell in the P5 coach pecking order), which is also unlikely.

Although it would be funny to see some of the rah rah boys heads spin if that happened.

Edited November 21, 2017 by UNT90

Aldo · November 21, 2017

5 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Notice how late in the recruiting game it was:

I get what you're saying but let's not leave out that Littrell had been the coach for less than 50 days at this point.

UNT90 · November 21, 2017

1 minute ago, Aldo said:

I get what you're saying but let's not leave out that Littrell had been the coach for less than 50 days at this point.

And landed no other QB recruit, the TOP priority for that class. Fine got an offer because more highly recruited players said no.

And thank god.

But it still doesn’t change the fact that Littrell fell into this. Where Littrell should get credit is for sticking with Fine until something clicked after the Iowa game.

Ben Gooding · November 21, 2017

12 hours ago, aztecskin said:

Yeah I mentioned this on twitter today. WVU is not having fun with Jake Spavital and I wonder if Dana takes a peek at Graham Harrell for the gig.

WVU's issue is hardly its offense.

Aldo · November 21, 2017

Just now, UNT90 said:

And landed no other QB recruit, the TOP priority for that class. Fine got an offer because more highly recruited players said no.

And thank god.

But it still doesn’t change the fact that Littrell fell into this. Where Littrell should get credit is for sticking with Fine until something clicked after the Iowa game.

Sure. We totally lucked out that time. But my point is that he had less than two months to put together an entire class (other than Hair-Griffin).

This upcoming class, though, is a big test.

Ben Gooding · November 21, 2017

4 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Sure. We totally lucked out that time. But my point is that he had less than two months to put together an entire class (other than Hair-Griffin).

This upcoming class, though, is a big test.

I could typically concede to this statement, but it's been his best class up to this point. That's problematic.

Aldo · November 21, 2017

16 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

I could typically concede to this statement, but it's been his best class up to this point. That's problematic.

We have several freshman and transfers in the 2 deep. I don't think that's the case. (Also having that many in the two deep is a testament to the condition of the roster).

Also it's two classes replacing tons of attrition from previous classes. Two classes replacing 2013, 14, and 15.

All eyes on the next one.

MeanGreenZen · November 21, 2017

45 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

Good Lord. Revisionist history much? They didn’t find Fine, Fine’s coaches found them. They were desperately trying to find Fine a FBS scholarship. Littrell was desperate after not being able to find a QB his first class and knowing that he had maybe one QB on the roster that was worth an FBS scholarship.

Two desperate parties got together and made a magical match.

Glad Littrell took that call. Too bad his staff didn’t take or return a call from another coach. They would have been much deeper at DT, a position of need.

Here is Vito’s more sane article on Fine’s offer and immediate acceptance. Notice how late in the recruiting game it was:

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2016/01/26/unt-notebook-oklahoma-qb-commits-to-unt

I know people on this site love to lie to themselves, but how about knowing little history on your team.

Do you know how many high school coaches contact our staff trying to push QBs on us? Basically all of them.

Littrell and Harrell get credit for sifting through all that trash and coming up with Fine. They evaluated the Locust Grove film and determined that he was worth a scholarship. Something no other FBS staff can claim, so they get credit for that. It wasn't luck.

And the ability to evaluate, identify and develop underrated quarterback prospects will make Littrell and Harrell attractive to P5 programs.

It is hard to sign 5 star guys, even for Alabama. If you have a history of taking lower-rated QBs and making them all conference that is VALUABLE.

And I believe Mason Fine is special. But let's not pretend he walked off that Indian reservation straight into the Davey O'Brien conversation. Fine was just good-ish as a freshman.

In fact, in the modern era of UNT football, I would rank Fine's freshman season below the freshman season's of Giovanni Vizza and Andrew Smith. Fine was about as good as a freshman as the freshman versions of Scott Hall or Riley Dodge.

Now as a sophomore, Fine has been a revelation such as Mean Green fans have never seen. And Littrell and Harrell get a lot of credit for that. Certainly they have raised his football IQ, put him in positions to succeed, maximized his strengths and minimized his weaknesses.

UNT90 · November 21, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Do you know how many high school coaches contact our staff trying to push QBs on us? Basically all of them.

Littrell and Harrell get credit for sifting through all that trash and coming up with Fine. They evaluated the Locust Grove film and determined that he was worth a scholarship. Something no other FBS staff can claim, so they get credit for that. It wasn't luck.

And the ability to evaluate, identify and develop underrated quarterback prospects will make Littrell and Harrell attractive to P5 programs.

It is hard to sign 5 star guys, even for Alabama. If you have a history of taking lower-rated QBs and making them all conference that is VALUABLE.

And I believe Mason Fine is special. But let's not pretend he walked off that Indian reservation straight into the Davey O'Brien conversation. Fine was just good-ish as a freshman.

In fact, in the modern era of UNT football, I would rank Fine's freshman season below the freshman season's of Giovanni Vizza and Andrew Smith. Fine was about as good as a freshman as the freshman versions of Scott Hall or Riley Dodge.

Now as a sophomore, Fine has been a revelation such as Mean Green fans have never seen. And Littrell and Harrell get a lot of credit for that. Certainly they have raised his football IQ, put him in positions to succeed, maximized his strengths and minimized his weaknesses.

It was absolute luck. Fine was first offered preferred walk on. When he refused (or another target committed somewhere else) was when he got offered. Littrell had zero other options. Fine was easily the top producing QB anywhere without offers. It wasn’t some magical tough call when you had squat on your roster. The tougher call that Littrell should get credit for is starting Fine as a Freshman over an Alabama graduate transfer and sticking with him through SMU and Iowa. Those were where credit was earned.

Everyone knows my early criticism of Fine, but we all hoped he would be another Nick Mullens (struggle freshman year and have something click as a soph). That’s exactly what happened. Any true freshman will struggle. Fine’s continued struggles through the SMU and Iowa Games are what concerned me. But the light everyone was hoping for came on, and in a big way.

And yes, when the coaching staff receives a call from a coach telling them a third team all-DFW area DT is interested in their program, they should return that call (they should also be making visits to that school’s campus. They haven’t in the last year). Texas Tech did make that call.

But, ya, we are so much better than a P5 at DT we couldn’t be bothered to make a call to talk to the kid about a preferred walk on offer...

What I’m hearing about recruiting and the lack of presence at local 6A high schools is concerning. And it’s from players at those schools.

Edited November 21, 2017 by UNT90

Ben Gooding · November 21, 2017

3 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

It was absolute luck. Fine was first offered preferred walk on. When he refused (or another target committed somewhere else) was when he got offered. Littrell had zero other options. Fine was easily the top producing QB anywhere without offers. It wasn’t some magical tough call when you had squat on your roster. The tougher call that Littrell should get credit for is starting Fine as a Freshman over an Alabama graduate transfer and sticking with him through SMU and Iowa. Those were where credit was earned.

Everyone knows my early criticism of Fine, but we all hoped he would be another Nick Mullens (struggle freshman year and have something click as a soph). That’s exactly what happened. An true freshman will struggle. Fine’s continued struggles through the SMU and Iowa Gabe’s are what concerned me. But the light everyone was hoping for came on, and in a big way.

And yes, when the coaching staff receives a call from a coach telling them a third team all-DFW DT is interested in their program, they should return that call (they should also be making visits to that school’s campus. They haven’t in the last year). Texas Tech did make that call.

But, ya, we are so much better than a P5 at DT we couldn’t be bothered to make a call to talk to the kid about a preferred walk on offer...

What I’m hearing about recruiting and the lack of presence at local 6A high schools is concerning. And it’s from players at those schools.

Assuming this is that Carroll kid you kept pushing for so hard?

Don't know about recruiting habits or tendencies of this staff. I don't know how they go about this process. What I do know are the results. And defensively, the results are speaking for themselves. You can out-scheme teams on offense. Can't do that on D as much so, and it's showing. Only Fordham has allowed more points to Army than us. Most of their games are in the 20's. Of course, we allow the season high for them in yardage.

MGNation92 · November 21, 2017

6 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

It was absolute luck. Fine was first offered preferred walk on. When he refused (or another target committed somewhere else) was when he got offered. Littrell had zero other options. Fine was easily the top producing QB anywhere without offers. It wasn’t some magical tough call when you had squat on your roster. The tougher call that Littrell should get credit for is starting Fine as a Freshman over an Alabama graduate transfer and sticking with him through SMU and Iowa. Those were where credit was earned.

Everyone knows my early criticism of Fine, but we all hoped he would be another Nick Mullens (struggle freshman year and have something click as a soph). That’s exactly what happened. An true freshman will struggle. Fine’s continued struggles through the SMU and Iowa Gabe’s are what concerned me. But the light everyone was hoping for came on, and in a big way.

And yes, when the coaching staff receives a call from a coach telling them a third team all-DFW DT is interested in their program, they should return that call (they should also be making visits to that school’s campus. They haven’t in the last year). Texas Tech did make that call.

But, ya, we are so much better than a P5 at DT we couldn’t be bothered to make a call to talk to the kid about a preferred walk on offer...

What I’m hearing about recruiting and the lack of presence at local 6A high schools is concerning. And it’s from players at those schools.

Lol good lord you're still pushing that kid from SLC huh? Sorry your buddy's kid didn't get an offer. We're 8-3 with the guys this staff wanted. If they thought he would help them they would have offered, as they would with every other kid out there.

I'm all about criticizing the staff where the lack, which in my opinion is still recruiting, but to hold a personal grudge over a friend's kid is petty as hell.