DRC Sunday column: Littrell has been great for UNT, too great to be around long

[shaft]

26 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Such as?

His own sundae named after him at Beth Marie’s.

An autographed “Stone Cold University” sweatshirt.

A chance to meet the goat man.

A map to Sam Bass’s gold.

A chance to buy under-appraised land where they are going to expand the highway.

A Life time membership to the international order of odd fellows.

[TheColonyEagle]

It could happen eventually but I still say he's too much of a risk at this point for a big program. This thinking is more about "wow the UNT program has sucked for a long time. If any coach can win 9 games here they'll be gone because this is a horrible job" That's Vito's point here. Not about how a big program would look at Littrell at THIS point. Again, put a P5's glasses on. He has one of the worst defenses in the nation and hasn't shown he can recruit at a high level YET. Who is gonna hire him now? TTech? They don't want more of what they have.  Arkansas? Ole Miss? Can you imagine their big boosters? "You gave up how many yards to FAU?" It's just too early at this point.

This isnt about big programs wanting Littrell, this seems more like it's about Vito trying as hard as he can to make sure EVERYONE knows how small time UNT is. "Everyone don't forget! You don't get to have this at UNT!"

I feel if he's gonna jump, at the earliest it will be maybe after next year IF he wins 10+ games. But I still say he'll be here to hug Mason Fine on his senior day.

****(I'm one of the biggest UNT homers out there and I'm looking at this objectively. Which is what the "journalist" that covers the team is supposed to be doing)****

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by TheColonyEagle

[peanuts104]

If he leaves for a better offer, he leaves.   He's got a lot going for him here.  The AD appears to love him, the board appears to love him.  He's basically got free reign here at this point (like Patterson at TCU).   He won't have that anywhere else.  SL knows that.   And it comes back to that age old question of whether that redshirt sophomore should enter the draft.   Could they mature a couple more seasons where they are and get the experience they need to survive at the next level or could they make the jump and hope they can swim.   I wouldn't dare blame SL for taking a better offer.   This is a game and he should be paid on his performance.  I want to hold onto him, and I hope he sees the advantages of staying here, but if he leaves for an offer (and he will get at least a few this season), then he leaves.  Unless we all want to chip in thousands of dollars into the "keep SL here" fund, it's out of the fans, and to an extent, the university's hands.

One observation I will make is that looking at his past stops, he didn't have much personal connection to location.  He seems to have a personal tie here with the northern Texas region and Oklahoma.  Unless Tech offers him, which they very well might, I think there's a good chance he stays.

 

Side note, Brett should take this story down.  It is speculative trash.  Lots of research about past coaches and players but very little into SL.

[TheReal_jayD]

9 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

Side note, Brett should take this story down.  It is speculative trash.  Lots of research about past coaches and players but very little into SL.

Absolutely agree! Write a damn story about the unbelievable fall Mean Green sports is having as a whole. Not this damn speculative garbage just to throw dirt on UNT any chance you get. If you hate UNT so much and are so butt hurt about the parking pass.. move on go cover sports somewhere else. 

[southsideguy]

freeze says he wants to come back to CUSA or the Sunbelt........but the baggage.  He might end up at UTEP they don't care about such things.

[Brett Vito]

6 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Absolutely agree! Write a damn story about the unbelievable fall Mean Green sports is having as a whole.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/11/12/brett-vito-far-weekends-go-yeah-went-pretty-unt

We did that last week.

[TheColonyEagle]

8 hours ago, peanuts104 said:

He seems Lots of research about past coaches and players but very little into SL.

I agree with this. 

So @Brett Vito if you're going to speculate like this. Why don't you name some teams that could be looking at Littrell. You have to have an opinion on which P5 would go after him. Put them out there. 

If not, then this opinion piece is more about your opinion of UNT, not Seth Littrell. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by TheColonyEagle

[BTG_Fan1]

19 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Absolutely agree! Write a damn story about the unbelievable fall Mean Green sports is having as a whole. Not this damn speculative garbage just to throw dirt on UNT any chance you get. If you hate UNT so much and are so butt hurt about the parking pass.. move on go cover sports somewhere else. 

😲😲😲😲😲😮😮😮😮😮😲😲😲😮😮😮

[UNTLifer]

42 minutes ago, Brett Vito said:

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/11/12/brett-vito-far-weekends-go-yeah-went-pretty-unt

We did that last week.

Yep, and you chose to publish this crap the day after we go undefeated at home, beat an 8-2 Army team, have a QB just set a single season record, win our 8th game in a season where, if memory serves me, you predicted 5 wins, have a chance to finish 9-3 with a win at Rice, secured a rematch with FAU for the CUSA Championship, etc...  It is not like you didn't have some options.

Edited November 20, 2017 by UNTLifer

[97and03]

3 hours ago, keith said:

Hey all Brett is saying is smart people recognize talent and will seek them out and that talent usually (based on empirical data) doesn't stay at the same job for very long before they move on to bigger and better opportunities because that's what talented people do.  Hard to argue with that logic.   BTW, how long has Brett been the North Texas beat writer for the DRC?

This guy gets it.  

[peanuts104]

1 hour ago, Brett Vito said:

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/11/12/brett-vito-far-weekends-go-yeah-went-pretty-unt

We did that last week.

Brett, was going to post that before you did.   You have done an excellent job at covering mean green sports other than football this year, even if others haven't noticed.  My dig is at your targeted attack at the idea SL will stick around.  I wouldn't be surprised if he left, but with what he's gotten moving here (the indoor practice field, for starters, along with the seemingly full support of the AD and the board), I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to stick it out for another couple of years at least.  We will likely lose him at some point, but the only thing I've seen in the news is a few columnists saying that he might be a decent fit at XYZ school.    And also, frankly, I'm not sure C-USA is well respected enough around the P5 programs for SL to warrant much notice, despite the excellent job he's done here so far.

 

[golfingomez]

3 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Such as?

[Got5onIt]

Why are everyone’s panties in a wad?

 

Bert is only speaking the truth.....

[PlummMeanGreen]

How we do at FAU & our bowl game will probably be major determining factors for "said school" putting "an only 2 yrs at UNT" SL on their check list. Season obviously ain't over yet,  folks. 

I think our slow start of the last 2 years  in recruiting Texas HS talent is not a plus for SL.  I think that he & staff will make a remarkable upward turn this recruiting season, though.  He's here at least another 2 or 3 Years IMHO. Note: Funny the difference a year makes inasmuch that the UTSA HFC had 17 3 star recruits last year & was not too shabby the year before but....how many times is his name being mentioned now for a new coaching gig?  (I'm sure I'll get another quick -1 from regular GMG.com visitor Rowdy and/or the other 2 regular visitors from UTSA with that being said)! 

Seth also has some pretty cool things to look forward to as well with an almost $20 million Indoor Practice Facilty at the top of the list.

GMG!

Edited November 20, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[Cerebus]

8 hours ago, Side Show Joe said:

Vito mentioned TCU's Patterson in his article. I doubt Gary Patterson viewed TCU as his dream job when he first got into coaching. At some point TCU turned it into his dream job.

Everyone brings up GP as the counter example for coach a not moving on.  He started coaching at TCU in 1998.  CFB is a totally different sport now.

The P5 weren't THE P5 then.  The income rift wasn't as high, ESPN hadn't taken over bowl games and all but controlled a play off system, and the NCAA hadn't voted to allow the P5 to make their own rules yet.

The gulf between P5/G5 is now enormous.  No G5 is going to ever move up again.  In fact the P5 is likely to contract.

Staying at a school in a non power conference is totally different in 2018 than it was in 1998.

[oldguystudent]

Does Matthew Brune graduate this year?  I hope not.  He's become my main source of news writing about UNT football. 

I'd love for him to stick around Denton as part of the DRC, but he's enjoyed so much early success that I imagine he'll hear the siren song of the money of bigger news markets and move on to broader, more well heeled readers.

[TheReal_jayD]

8 hours ago, Brett Vito said:

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/11/12/brett-vito-far-weekends-go-yeah-went-pretty-unt

We did that last week.

Writes one positive piece about UNT athletics...

"Oh crap I better put these sons of guns back in their place."

[bstnsportsfan3]

The only good thing is at least we are discussing possibly loosing a coach because he was SUCCESSFUL at North Texas! 

[Side Show Joe]

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

Everyone brings up GP as the counter example for coach a not moving on.  He started coaching at TCU in 1998.  CFB is a totally different sport now.

The P5 weren't THE P5 then.  The income rift wasn't as high, ESPN hadn't taken over bowl games and all but controlled a play off system, and the NCAA hadn't voted to allow the P5 to make their own rules yet.

The gulf between P5/G5 is now enormous.  No G5 is going to ever move up again.  In fact the P5 is likely to contract.

Staying at a school in a non power conference is totally different in 2018 than it was in 1998.

That seems a little misleading. Yes, Patterson started at TCU in 1998, but TCU did not make their move to the Big 12 until 2011. Even though we now have a playoff, I don't think football has changed that much in 6 years. Patterson spent 13 years at TCU before they got a Big 12 invitation. He could have left TCU for a much better job, but he didn't. Patterson could leave TCU now for a better job, but he doesn't want to. At some point TCU made their job his dream job.

Yes, the landscape of college football is changing, but the fundamental truth has not. College football is still all about money. If North Texas were to finish undefeated and win the Rose Bowl, like TCU did, we would certainly become more valuable. We are not like most G5 universities. There are a handful of G5's that have the right combination of size, location, and funding to grow into P5 caliber programs.

Are AD's in the P5 taking notice of what Littrell is doing at North Texas? Of course. But, I have to believe they are also taking notice of what the University of North Texas is doing within their athletic department too.

[MeanGreen_MBA]

10 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Such as?

You wont get fired from UNT after a bad season....this is not the pressure cooker as is some of the P5 jobs.  Stay here, increase your earning year over year, win consistently, and don't worry about the occasional down year.  Own this town, and eventually will have buildings and statues erected in your name.....

[MeanGreenHoops]

This article is hilarious. He states the obvious and gets the expected response. If you're good at coaching other teams will want you. Thanks for the insight but we already knew that. Not much there.

It's more like he read about the fears of gomeangreen.com and then wrote an article about them.

He got the desired response.

I'd prefer he did better at actually finding things about our team ... like did you all know Trevor Moore has a torn MCL he's been playing on for several weeks?  I didn't but they mentioned it on the broadcast which I watched last night. This is not the 1st time I leareed some detail about the team from TV  that I thought we should have already known. This is the kind of detail that the hardcore fanbase here would like to get from the local man on the scene.

 

 

[southsideguy]

Thank you Vito for pissing on the parade.  Cant you let the MG fans have this season at least.  I hope we get one more year from  him at least.

[PlummMeanGreen]

If you were HFC at U of Kansas or Iowa St. would you turn down a job interview (& job offer) at U of Michigan?

We ain't the only ones who face this dilemma from time to time & you all know it.

if we got beat by FAU by the same score (& we won't) we still on this theme? 

"We all have our fickled fans  moments." Dr. Phil?

GMG! 

PS: Relax, breathe & count to 12 (& 3)!

BEAT THOSE PESKY RICE OWLS!

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTLifer]

12 hours ago, golfingomez said:

Boise St has had three head coaches since 2001... 

Since their return to 1A/now FBS.

1997 Houston Nutt; left for Arkansas

98 - 00 Dirk Koetter; left for Arizona State

01 - 05 Dan Hawkins; left for Colorado

06-13 Chris Peterson; left for Washington

14-present Brian Harsyn

 

As Boise St. started to maintain their level of success, coaches started to stay longer which I would attribute to the ability of BSU to pay higher salaries.  I think it is interesting to note that all of these, Peterson excluded, have had mixed results at their next stop.

[Cerebus]

1 hour ago, Side Show Joe said:

 Even though we now have a playoff, I don't think football has changed that much in 6 years.

Well then we'll just have to agree to disagree.  In my eyes there are huge and monumental changes in CFB even if you completely disregard the new play offs.

 

The Entire CFB Economic Model is Changing
Disney more or less held every single cable subscriber hostage and forced them to pay for many ESPN channels even if they had zero interest in them.    They could do this because they also owned ABC, A&E, Lifetime, History, etc.  If providers didn't bundle ESPN into the most basic cable package they wouldn't get access to  any of the Disney/ESPN/ABC channels.    What this did is made millions of subscribers pay hundreds of dollars every year for specific channel fees they would not have taken if they had the option.  Free money.  

Now cable cutting is killing that model.    Cable is losing about a million subscribers per quarter.  It's getting bad enough that cable subscribers and Disney are suing each other over forcing ESPN into basic cable.  Some change has already happened.  Verizon launch a ESPN less basic cable in 2015, Dish did the same in 2016.   These ESPN-less packages are the only area of cable showing growth.  So not only are fees going down from fewer consumers, even some consumers deciding to keep cable are going to opt for cable that doesn't give ESPN a dime.   End of free money.  

So as I've posted on here multiple times, we're are rapidly approaching a day when ESPN loses money for Disney.  They already see the writing on the wall.  Right now another round of talent layoff is going on, they are expect to trim at least 100 from the Bristol roster by the end of Thanksgiving weekend.   ESPN is more or less locked into paying the rights contracts it has now, but everyone knows the next round of contracts is going to be affected.   

This coming pain has had/will have two big effects on CFB.  First is the end of expansion.  Second is the coming contraction.  In the expansion era it made sense for conferences to try and expand into as many large media markets as possible because:

1) ESPN had free money to give, trying to chase fewer eyeballs with the money of those eyeballs not even watching sports.

2) ESPN was facing competition from Fox and other players wanting to getting into college athletics.  So they were enticed to give some of that free money out to get access instead of redistributing it to stock holders.

In fact that above is what lead CUSA to sign it's largest contract ($1.2M per team distribution) in 2011.  Now the conference also made a bad bet, thinking that online streaming would add to the pool of money, as so they took a short term 5 year deal.  So yes, in 2011, CUSA got a big fat contract under the old free money system.    However when they went to renegotiate in 2016, the old free money was gone.     CUSA per team distribution fell from $1.2M to $200k.

So since ESPN no longer has free money, it no longer makes sense to grow bigger conferences in media markets hoping a team can grow to capture that market.  You now have to worry about what they can for sure deliver.  Look no further than UH.  Houston pulled off what would have been the perfect plan in 2011, but unfortunately they peaked too late.   In 2011 UH would have gone to the Big 12, but by 2016 it was too late.  

So long story short.  GP was at TCU at a time when:

1) a program that put all out effort into sucessfully build a winning football team had a real chance at moving into a P5 league.  

2) He also coached at a school that had SWC ties to most of the school in the P5 conference they wanted to move into.

So now imagine you are UT or OU.  You know the B12 has teams that don't deliver enough enough eyeballs.  You can either stick with them and trim $10M or so off your distribution, or go somewhere else and make as much if not more.  You think UT/OU love Iowa St/KState/TCU/Baylor enough to do that?  Neither do I.  What is holding that league together right now is the B12 Grant Of Rights (GOR).   Right now if UT/OU took off the rest of the B12 and Disney could see them for breach and recover damages.  Come 2025 though, all bets are off.  

To me the writing on the wall is clear.  In fact Disney would have favored adding UH to the B12, as long as the B12 members agreed to extend the current GOR at the same rate.  The schools not named OU/UT were all for that.  First they know the best case scenario is UT/OU sticking around and keeping revenue about the same.  Second they know their TV money would collapse the second UT/OU left, and an extension of the GOR would at least put that off.  The biggest news out of all that was that UT/OU refused.  

So what happens when the GOR expires?  OU and UT are gone.  The B12 is still probably named the B12, but it is going to lose the special P5 consideration it gets for the CFP, the CFP payout, their per team media distribution is going to fall to AAC levels, and perhaps most importantly they are going to lose the special P5 rules autonomy that the NCAA granted.  

So that is one enormous difference between 2011 and 2017.   

 

This post took a long time to write up, I'll break now and come back later to the second major change, the above caving in from the NCAA that allows the P5 to write the rule book for all FBS football teams.