DRC (updated): Regents to receive early glimpse of facilities mater plan

[Brett Vito]

DRC: Full release of UNT's facilities master plan expected in next few weeks

http://www.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/11/13/unt-present-facilities-mater-plan-board-week

Edited November 14, 2017 by Brett Vito

[All About UNT]

"We need to be aggressive with facilities," Baker said this summer. "When I came here people would say we have great facilities. I have been in other leagues and other levels. I pretty quickly said we have a great football stadium."

Have felt this way for years.  When RV would rant on our facilities I always questioned their greatness.  The stadium is undeniably the jewel of the complex but the disparity between it and the other facilities is large.  

[PlummMeanGreen]

8 hours ago, All About UNT said:

"We need to be aggressive with facilities," Baker said this summer. "When I came here people would say we have great facilities. I have been in other leagues and other levels. I pretty quickly said we have a great football stadium."

Have felt this way for years.  When RV would rant on our facilities I always questioned their greatness.  The stadium is undeniably the jewel of the complex but the disparity between it and the other facilities is large.  

Very large. 

We were luck to get the Liberty Christian property when we did, though. 

Not all that happened under RV was bad, folks.  

GMG!

Edited November 14, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[Wag Tag]

If you ever get a chance go visit the weight room and training facilities. I was able to do this at the beginning of the year and was shocked how small it was and even more shocked to learn it is used by all sports! This needs to be at the top of the list next to the IPF. Football should have its own facility!

[UNTFan23]

Just now, Wag Tag said:

If you ever get a chance go visit the weight room and training facilities. I was able to do this at the beginning of the year and was shocked how small it was and even more shocked to learn it is used by all sports! This needs to be at the top of the list next to the IPF. Football should have its own facility!

My memory is a little fuzzy but I believe part of the IPF include more weight room and some other facilities space.

[Wag Tag]

1 minute ago, UNTFan23 said:

My memory is a little fuzzy but I believe part of the IPF include more weight room and some other facilities space.

If you look at the new Athletic Offices it shows an expansion on the stadium side. It would be great to move the video board, add a football weight room, and have the stadium side be glass. This could be a great view while pumping the iron! The evironment should've a ton of natural light!

[DeepGreen]

Glad the Athletic Center was built.  We certainly needed it.  But.........

It is way too small.  It should have been at least double the size.  More money, for sure.  But now we have to go back, re-work and re-do the damn thing.  Small thinking on our part.  Lack of donor money and and UNT vision from the top.

And think about it.  The field at Apogee has never been named after a generous donor.

Edited November 14, 2017 by DeepGreen

[UNTFan23]

5 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

If you look at the new Athletic Offices it shows an expansion on the stadium side. It would be great to move the video board, add a football weight room, and have the stadium side be glass. This could be a great view while pumping the iron! The evironment should've a ton of natural light!

The IPF is going to be longer than 100 yards (more like 130 yards or longer?), so there will be room for something on one end or the other.

EDIT: A football field is actually 120 yards long, so I suspect the IPF will be actually more like 150 yards or more in length.

Edited November 14, 2017 by UNTFan23

[Mad Hatter]

IPF isn't going to be completed until July 2019?  I thought it was sooner than that.

[UNTFan23]

8 minutes ago, Mad Hatter said:

IPF isn't going to be completed until July 2019?  I thought it was sooner than that.

Construction won't start until some time in 2018, so 2019 doesn't sound too bad in the grand scheme of things. They're still looking for just under $1 million in private donor funding.

Edited November 14, 2017 by UNTFan23

[Matt from A700]

I believe the long-term plan also mentioned a new arena. Hopefully we can resurrect our basketball program and up attendance before the athletic department considers a downsizing. 

[BTG_Fan1]

11 hours ago, Matt from A700 said:

I believe the long-term plan also mentioned a new arena. Hopefully we can resurrect our basketball program and up attendance before the athletic department considers a downsizing. 

They will likely down-size no matter what... They want to put in suites, and reducing seats allows for them to charge more while cutting cuts on heating/ac for example. 

[Mean Green Matt]

We have almost 40,000 students. Building a new arena with a capacity any less than 10,000 seats would be incredibly short sighted. Either get the money to build a facility that could house a successful basketball program at a university our size or stay in the super pit. 

[UNTexas]

2 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

We have almost 40,000 students. Building a new arena with a capacity any less than 10,000 seats would be incredibly short sighted. Either get the money to build a facility that could house a successful basketball program at a university our size or stay in the super pit. 

Duke's basketball facility seats 9,314. Duke... 10,000 is short sided for North Texas basketball? The Athletic Department rents a 44 year old facility from the university. A facility that needs a massive overhaul and you don't pay to upgrade a place you're renting. I don't think it's short sided for the athletic department to have a basketball stadium specifically for the basketball teams in the future. 

Short sided would be to build a big awesome athletic complex for all sports and to intentionally come up short for two teams. That reminds me of North Texas' previous administrations mindset.

Edited November 15, 2017 by UNTexas

[UNTFan23]

2 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

We have almost 40,000 students. Building a new arena with a capacity any less than 10,000 seats would be incredibly short sighted. Either get the money to build a facility that could house a successful basketball program at a university our size or stay in the super pit. 

I wish I could agree with you but even during the Johnny Jones era when the program was at its peak we were only averaging about 4,000 to 4,500 per game. That isn't even 50% of the SP's capacity.

A new arena should be built with expansion in mind but we haven't shown a need for anything really larger than 7,500.

The desire for a new arena comes from the demand for things like box seats and suites which can't be added to the SP.

[PlummMeanGreen]

7 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

We have almost 40,000 students. Building a new arena with a capacity any less than 10,000 seats would be incredibly short sighted. Either get the money to build a facility that could house a successful basketball program at a university our size or stay in the super pit. 

Agree.

Who we trying to emulate by having a smaller BB venue?   UTA?  :(

Some of us here were at the Super Pit's grand opening & finding it difficult to accept that its become dysfunctional. I think about $20 million sunk into it would make if functional.  You couldn't put numerous luxury suites around the top perimeter of it, too?  A good engineer and architect can do anything.   Ask Eddie Sutton who was at OSU how they raised the roof of Gallagher to make it happen for Cowboys basketball.  

Today's Fort Worth StarTelegram headlines were (and I loosely paraphrase)  "TCU To Spend $100,000,000 on Amon Carter Stadium Luxury Suites. (I suppose the plumbing will all be gold-plated, too)?   Wonder if that will be worth it all when UT and OU leave the B12 & they go....Mountain West?

Edited November 15, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[Mean Green Matt]

9 hours ago, UNTexas said:

Duke's basketball facility seats 9,314. Duke... 10,000 is short sided for North Texas basketball? The Athletic Department rents a 44 year old facility from the university. A facility that needs a massive overhaul and you don't pay to upgrade a place you're renting. I don't think it's short sided for the athletic department to have a basketball stadium specifically for the basketball teams in the future. 

Short sided would be to build a big awesome athletic complex for all sports and to intentionally come up short for two teams. That reminds me of North Texas' previous administrations mindset.

Not saying that basketball couldn't use a new venue (though I sure wish it was closer to the dorms). Just saying it should be big enough for more than 1/8 our student body. I believe 5,000 was being thrown around. As awesome as the JJ Sun Belt years were that shouldn't be referenced as the peak of our potential. 

9 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

I wish I could agree with you but even during the Johnny Jones era when the program was at its peak we were only averaging about 4,000 to 4,500 per game. That isn't even 50% of the SP's capacity.

A new arena should be built with expansion in mind but we haven't shown a need for anything really larger than 7,500.

The desire for a new arena comes from the demand for things like box seats and suites which can't be added to the SP.

I hear you but arenas are not easy to expand. We pretty much have one shot at this. I would very much prefer a modern arena similar to UTA (maybe with more amenities) but also with more capacity. 

[PlummMeanGreen]

Who started this trend of universities that are growing insanely out of their borders reducing the capacity of any future venue?   Have Big Car--Will Travel (with) Small gas tank?   How far will that big car go with a small gas ⛽️ tank?  A big exciting trip to NCAA D2 or D3 ?  

I think this trend of "we big but think small (ain't we progressive)" needs to go the way of the dinosaur.  Hope we don't get stuck with a 5-6,000 seat BB arena.  We have to act like we will one day have an NCAA Division 1 BB program that will be better than the one we've had the last 40 years, don't we?   Our athletic program in any of our past decades has ultimately been all about who we hired. Venues don't win games--coaches and their recruits, do.

Yes, the Super Pit was really too large for most of those 40 years alright but look at the roller coaster ride our BB program has been on during that time?  Note:  Some of us sat in the Super Pit one evening when we had 10,700 fans show for an SMU/UNT game. I didn't say in a non-interesting matchup with John Wesley State U, but rather--S...M...U!            💚You know it & I know it--UNT dropped the scheduling & HBC's hirings ball the last 40 years-- the 10,000 seat Super Pit had nothing to do with that.  It just sat there sitting pretty all those years shaking it's head saying--WHY ME? 🤔   (Didn't know the Super Pit could  think & talk, did you)?😳

If we base everything on the past (OldDenton) then we're screwed & will continue to receive odd looks by those in the DFW work place & our Texas intercollegiate peers who are in the Big 12 and the AAC.  We really don't need to continue to do that to ourselves, do we?   Time to build perception. Joseph P. Kennedy once  told Jack and Bobby:  "Perception is reality---it's everything."  

A 45-50,000 enrollment UNT with a 6,000 BB arena will not advance this program & would draw snickers in the Lone Star State we live.  Rest assured some presently on this "build it smaller" bandwagon would eventually be asking:  "Why in God's Name did we build it that small?" (Notice I didn't & would never use an "F" bomb in that question)?

 Can anyone possibly look past our past and past their noses?   Use that good college education to think forward--not backwards.  We don't want to be like those damn rabbits & become a receding hare line

💚Yet here we go again--it's OldDenton vs NewDenton.   OldDenton with a few remnants & relics of our teacher's college mindset that (all these years later) is still among us & (seemedly) will not go down without a fight.  When you see empty seats at future varsity sporting events--you'll see that OldDenton is still among us. (To be fair & balanced--we DFW area North Texas Exes have to shoulder our part of the blame, too).  

⬇️Trending downward in anything is not what we want at North Texas because haven't we (forever) "been there--done that?"  

💚Put some major bucks back into the Super Pit.  A good engineer and an architect will show us how just like they showed Eddie Sutton and Okla. State how to (literally) raise the roof, add seats & refurbish a much older Gallagher/Iba Arena.

 💚Let the experts show us how Luxury seats can even be added to the Super Pit.  That done by using serious monies that would have  built a new 6,000 venue that would be further away from the dorms & completely on the wrong side of Interstate 35-E.  

➡️ Think about the UNT students living on the east (of I-35E)  part of our campus--not hot new trends that might be as short-lived as a One Hit Wonder. 

GMG! 

Edited November 16, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTFan23]

Before Apogee was built, people were clamoring for a 45k seat stadium.

If we're going to build a 10k seat arena, let have a second level so it's easier to hide some of those empty seats from TV. At least we'd have a decent shot at filling the lower bowl then and still not have the place look like it's still mostly empty.

[BTG_Fan1]

Stadium will be I’m going to assume 6.5-7k at the minimum and 8k at the most... 

[PlummMeanGreen]

14 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Before Apogee was built, people were clamoring for a 45k seat stadium.

If we're going to build a 10k seat arena, let have a second level so it's easier to hide some of those empty seats from TV. At least we'd have a decent shot at filling the lower bowl then and still not have the place look like it's still mostly empty.

I alway thought 35K would have been a good initial capacity, UNTFan23.  I was real excited when we built what we thought was our first indoor Olympic-sized pool at UNT in the old PEB until we discovered it was 1 foot shy.  Seems we've too many times been 1 foot shy at UNT.  Seems short term success lasting 2 years would turn into the next 8 years having few wins & turning into fan-eliminators.

A new BB venue at the Mean Green village would eliminate many UNT students w/o cars who can  now (conveniently) walk from Kerr Hall to the Super Pit;  but how far a walk is it from Kerr Hall crossing over the I-35E Pedestrian Bridge into the MG Village for a basketball game (and during the colder part of the year to boot)?

The battle of OldDenton vs NewDenton continues.   If we'd schedule for basketball as UTSA (most admirably) schedules Big Boys for football we'd get to use that upper part for all to see on TV.  

✅ More SMU's in UNT's future basketball schedules--less John Wesley State U's. 

Its really hard for all of us to break our OldDenton mode of stinkin'-thinkin', especially for those in my age group--the Baby Boomers. 

GMG!

Edited November 16, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

[Mean Green Matt]

8 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Before Apogee was built, people were clamoring for a 45k seat stadium.

If we're going to build a 10k seat arena, let have a second level so it's easier to hide some of those empty seats from TV. At least we'd have a decent shot at filling the lower bowl then and still not have the place look like it's still mostly empty.

Agree.  In my dreams we build something similar to what Iowa State has, just a little smaller and with better amenities. We need a true multi-purpose venue for our future ice hockey team. 

[BTG_Fan1]

6 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Agree.  In my dreams we build something similar to what Iowa State has, just a little smaller and with better amenities. We need a true multi-purpose venue for our future ice hockey team. 

What Texas, OK, LA schools have hockey??? 

[Ben Gooding]

15 hours ago, UNTFan23 said:

Before Apogee was built, people were clamoring for a 45k seat stadium.

If we're going to build a 10k seat arena, let have a second level so it's easier to hide some of those empty seats from TV. At least we'd have a decent shot at filling the lower bowl then and still not have the place look like it's still mostly empty.

We need an intimate coliseum style arena. Make it no more than 5-6K. When we seldom and sporadically get good crowds of 4-5K, it will be intimate, loud, and look great on television. When we have our usual 2K-ish in attendance (hopefully that number shows a steady increase), it will look at least be respectable and still be loud, and infuse some energy into our home team. When a noteworthy team comes to town, it will make for an actual hot ticket in North Texas athletics, something that is unforeseen around these parts. 

EX: Think a very nice high school arena, but with baseline seats. By keeping it simple like this, it creates a very fun and entertaining atmosphere, but also allows the administration extra play money to jazz the place up with perfect lighting, graphics, etc. etc.   

Edited November 16, 2017 by Ben Gooding

[forevereagle]

9 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

We need an intimate coliseum style arena. Make it no more than 5-6K. When we seldom and sporadically get good crowds of 4-5K, it will be intimate, loud, and look great on television. When we have our usual 2K-ish in attendance (hopefully that number shows a steady increase), it will look at least be respectable and still be loud, and infuse some energy into our home team. When a noteworthy team comes to town, it will make for an actual hot ticket in North Texas athletics, something that is unforeseen around these parts. 

EX: Think a very nice high school arena, but with baseline seats. By keeping it simple like this, it creates a very fun and entertaining atmosphere, but also allows the administration extra play money to jazz the place up with perfect lighting, graphics, etc. etc.   

I like this thought. I would probably go a little larger than 6k, but not a whole lot. Maybe 7k, but only if the design keeps everyone close to the action. Maybe a design that allows for temp seating to get more folks in if needed.

6 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Agree.  In my dreams we build something similar to what Iowa State has, just a little smaller and with better amenities. We need a true multi-purpose venue for our future ice hockey team. 

Hockey makes the floor space too big. I just don't see why we would plan for a hockey team when it is not even close to the radar. I think the plan to make it easily used for basketball and volleyball is the exact way we should go.