Update Rankings

MeanGreenTexan · November 14, 2017

11 minutes ago, Venson said:

I watched UAB and all of their games.

Then you would know Brooks is not a starter & hasn't been since the 3rd quarter of the UAB game after getting toasted on the same double-move for 2 UAB TDs.

The CB starters are Kemon Hall and Eric Jenkins. Brooks will hopefully learn to be more disciplined over the next 10 months and be prepared to take over for Jenkins next year.

MGNation92 · November 14, 2017

25 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Then you would know Brooks is not a starter & hasn't been since the 3rd quarter of the UAB game after getting toasted on the same double-move for 2 UAB TDs.

The CB starters are Kemon Hall and Eric Jenkins. Brooks will hopefully learn to be more disciplined over the next 10 months and be prepared to take over for Jenkins next year.

I believe Brooks started against UTEP

UNTFan23 · November 14, 2017

10 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I believe Brooks started against UTEP

According to the final stat sheet he did and lead the defense in tackles.

meangreenacct · November 14, 2017

24 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I believe Brooks started against UTEP

He did. Jenkins was the announced starter, but he spent most of the game hanging out on the training table...

UNTLifer · November 14, 2017

33 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I believe Brooks started against UTEP

Yep, and the UTEP QB's couldn't hit water if they fell out of boat, so the threat of the double move was nonexistent.

BTG_Fan1 · November 14, 2017

2 hours ago, Venson said:

I understand that you say they are older because some are juniors. However, Jenkins is not really a starter, Brooks is. Jenkins adds depth, but we will be okay without him because I am sure there are guys developing behind him. Baulkman has played sparingly this year so not a big loss. Tillman Johnson won't hurt as much either if English comes back and is healthy. I think this program is on the rise. They are older in that they are not Freshmen and Sophomore, but they are not Seniors either so most starters will be back. There are a lot of Redshirt Freshmen that are waiting in the wings. All good college programs have that. There are many guys who are not playing for Alabama right now because there is a Junior in front of them, but they never really have any drop off in performance year after year. Do we need to recruit better defensively? Sure, but the winning will help. I am already starting to see more 3 star recruits committing because they like what is going on in #NewDenton. Right now we are taking 2 Star and below recruits and coaching them up to 3 Star and higher level. I see us starting to get 3 Star recruits and coaching them up to 4 Star and higher level.

Our defentions of a "young" maybe different but to me, young is someone you will have for 2 years years or more after this current season. Khari and Hamilton are the only "young" guys who play a significant role and players we know what to expect out of them, the rest of them we have no 0 idea what to expect.

Jenkins is the starter, and has been the starter since UTSA and even replaced Brooks in the 4th during UAB... Jenkins is not rotating through like they did last year with Davis and Jenkins, Jenkins and Hall are out there A LOT more than Brooks who touches the field sparingly on defense but is on the KO coverage unit. Yes Brooks started over Jenkins because of what appears to be an injury, but if it were not for that.. Brooks would not be out there.

Baulkman yes does not play much, but he was the starter last year and likely has lost his spot to Preston because of the injury, and Preston will be a Sr. next year with the "younger" option Davis playing sparingly leaving us with no idea what to expect from Davis in the future (who likely should have been RSed for him to develop after moving from LB to S/Rover).

Tillman won't be a major loss because of the rotation. English looked great, but again we have seen him in 1 game (2017 Spring game and he looked dominate). The idea that English would fill the Tillman role isn't likely because English would play a larger role-thus likely fill/replace Flusche in terms of rotation time with one of the FR like TonyK/Novil (no idea if spelling the FR name right) or even Reynolds filling in the 2/3rd way of the DL rotation.

Yes this program is on the rise, but the difference is will we be having this "success" in next year with us losing major pieces of this defense in Flusche, Wheeler, McClain and Jenkins? or the year after as well when we maybe losing Preston, Brooks, Hall, Garner, EJ,,etc? We RSed an entire OL and we have heard they look great in practice, but that is totally different from a game. The current OL will only be losing 1 OL in Henson and potentially 2 if Mayfield is a SR and not a JR. We have no idea what to expect out his replacement or a potential RT in terms of actual in game production. Should we really feel comfortable with 2 potential RS-FR at RG and RT? To me ideally we are losing 2/3/4 guys each year from Offense/Defense that were starters and not 4/5/6 guys from each side of the ball and replacing them with guys who have had some actual playing time. When Fine is a SR. he needs to be out of games like USM/SMU/FAU and letting Person/Bean/Martin, whoever play so we do not have to go through the same errors later on.

The difference between UNT and Bama is that they are replacing studs with experience with studs, UNT is replacing Studs with a 2* that has to be coached up (which the staff has done a great job of, but how long can you keep the streak alive beating the odds).. An example is we will be having is after McClain leaves this year, who is the replacement? Is it someone on the roster now in Sanders or Robinson? Is it Gibbs, Williams, Crosby who are in HS now? Either way those guys have very little if any playing time on the college level. Another reason why we need big W's like USM/UTEP is to give these "young" guys like Sanders/Davis/Johnson, etc playing time because they aren't getting to RS like the OL guys who are able to practice without losing any eligibility, they are losing eligibility by playing sparingly. A current example of who replaces who is Khari. Before this year, we played Dee, McClain and Gray so much last year, we had no idea if he could fill that role (which has filled it great in my opinion).. Heck we had 0 idea what to expect as fans from Fine before the season because he lost so many games, and had no pulled away from Quinn in Spring/Fall Camp.

Sorry to everyone for the long drawn out message. It was mostly meant for @Venson

Edited November 14, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

Venson · November 14, 2017

Brooks started in place of Jenkins. Coach Littrell said he earned it back in his press conference. I believe the only reason Brooks was really benched following the double moves against UAB and subsequent games is because he was being hard headed. If you watch the Beyond the Green episode of the UAB game, Coach Brown was trying to talk to him about it and he was making excuses, caught an attitude, and mouthed off to him saying "What would you have done" So, I really think he was benched to learn how to be a team player. So, really in truly Jenkins was starting, but probably wasn't the better player.

Venson · November 14, 2017

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Our defentions of a "young" maybe different but to me, young is someone you will have for 2 years years or more after this current season. Khari and Hamilton are the only "young" guys who play a significant role and players we know what to expect out of them, the rest of them we have no 0 idea what to expect.

Jenkins is the starter, and has been the starter since UTSA and even replaced Brooks in the 4th during UAB... Jenkins is not rotating through like they did last year with Davis and Jenkins, Jenkins and Hall are out there A LOT more than Brooks who touches the field sparingly on defense but is on the KO coverage unit. Yes Brooks started over Jenkins because of what appears to be an injury, but if it were not for that.. Brooks would not be out there.

Baulkman yes does not play much, but he was the starter last year and likely has lost his spot to Preston because of the injury, and Preston will be a Sr. next year with the "younger" option Davis playing sparingly leaving us with no idea what to expect from Davis in the future (who likely should have been RSed for him to develop after moving from LB to S/Rover).

Tillman won't be a major loss because of the rotation. English looked great, but again we have seen him in 1 game (2017 Spring game and he looked dominate). The idea that English would fill the Tillman role isn't likely because English would play a larger role-thus likely fill/replace Flusche in terms of rotation time with one of the FR like TonyK/Novil (no idea if spelling the FR name right) or even Reynolds filling in the 2/3rd way of the DL rotation.

Yes this program is on the rise, but the difference is will we be having this "success" in next year with us losing major pieces of this defense in Flusche, Wheeler, McClain and Jenkins? or the year after as well when we maybe losing Preston, Brooks, Hall, Garner, EJ,,etc? We RSed an entire OL and we have heard they look great in practice, but that is totally different from a game. The current OL will only be losing 1 OL in Henson and potentially 2 if Mayfield is a SR and not a JR. We have no idea what to expect out his replacement or a potential RT in terms of actual in game production. Should we really feel comfortable with 2 potential RS-FR at RG and RT? To me ideally we are losing 2/3/4 guys each year from Offense/Defense that were starters and not 4/5/6 guys from each side of the ball and replacing them with guys who have had some actual playing time. When Fine is a SR. he needs to be out of games like USM/SMU/FAU and letting Person/Bean/Martin, whoever play so we do not have to go through the same errors later on.

The difference between UNT and Bama is that they are replacing studs with experience with studs, UNT is replacing Studs with a 2* that has to be coached up (which the staff has done a great job of, but how long can you keep the streak alive beating the odds).. An example is we will be having is after McClain leaves this year, who is the replacement? Is it someone on the roster now in Sanders or Robinson? Is it Gibbs, Williams, Crosby who are in HS now? Either way those guys have very little if any playing time on the college level. Another reason why we need big W's like USM/UTEP is to give these "young" guys like Sanders/Davis/Johnson, etc playing time because they aren't getting to RS like the OL guys who are able to practice without losing any eligibility, they are losing eligibility by playing sparingly. A current example of who replaces who is Khari. Before this year, we played Dee, McClain and Gray so much last year, we had no idea if he could fill that role (which has filled it great in my opinion).. Heck we had 0 idea what to expect as fans from Fine before the season because he lost so many games, and had no pulled away from Quinn in Spring/Fall Camp.

Sorry to everyone for the long drawn out message. It was mostly meant for @Venson

I get what you are saying that we have no idea about the guys who are behind those Jrs. My point about Bama was there is no drop off even though we have no idea what is behind them. Sure what is behind them are studs, but we are not in the SEC, we are in CUSA. So, the talent gap is not that big. We were picked to be middle of the pack to bottom this year, but we are not. Because of the wins we have now, there are 3 Star players starting to take a closer look and some are committing. So, I think we will be okay with what we are pulling in. Not that we can stop recruiting, but the more we win, the better recruits we will get. Call me an optimist, but I see good things in UNTs future and I have been a fan since I was in middle school in the early 80s. This is the first time that I think the future is bright for UNT athletics.

BTG_Fan1 · November 14, 2017

5 minutes ago, Venson said:

I get what you are saying that we have no idea about the guys who are behind those Jrs. My point about Bama was there is no drop off even though we have no idea what is behind them. Sure what is behind them are studs, but we are not in the SEC, we are in CUSA. So, the talent gap is not that big. We were picked to be middle of the pack to bottom this year, but we are not. Because of the wins we have now, there are 3 Star players starting to take a closer look and some are committing. So, I think we will be okay with what we are pulling in. Not that we can stop recruiting, but the more we win, the better recruits we will get. Call me an optimist, but I see good things in UNTs future and I have been a fan since I was in middle school in the early 80s. This is the first time that I think the future is bright for UNT athletics.

I get the point that no one know what to expect, but its very worrisome when we have a former P5 WR in Guyton and he is locked up 1 on 1 vs a True FR CB and we barely go at that match up like we had vs LT. I do agree the future is bright, but I'm hoping we can maintain this winning and improve it in terms of going from single digits to double digits. I'm also hoping this is one of those years we win alot of games because of the number of experienced guys we have then after they leave we go crashing down to earth after they graduate.

CUSA is won by QB play, and we currently have one of the better/best in CUSA right now. It's really scary to think if this defense was even just in the mid-70s/80s instead of 109 what our season be looking like and recruiting-wise.