Seth Littrell has made the Mean Green relevant again – and he may not be around much longer

NorthTexan95 · November 12, 2017

I'm with BillySee that Seth needs another year to get the kind of job offer he would want.

However, Karen Ashton is the cautionary example. After one sub .500 season at UNT she gets offered the Texas job. It only takes one school to fall in love with Seth and offer him a job he can't turn down.

Mike Jackson · November 12, 2017

2 hours ago, CMJ said:

UCLA has won more conference titles than Stanford, Washington, and Oregon. Only USC has real ownership of the Pac-12 historically. The other four mentioned all have roughly the same success, just at various times.

When it comes to football they haven’t won a conference title this century. UNT has just to make a comparison. Washington, Oregon, and Stanford have all been more successful than UCLA. If your last Conference title is older than most the kids you are recruiting your program is second tier in your conference.

CMJ · November 12, 2017

59 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

When it comes to football they haven’t won a conference title this century. UNT has just to make a comparison. Washington, Oregon, and Stanford have all been more successful than UCLA. If your last Conference title is older than most the kids you are recruiting your program is second tier in your conference.

Okay....but you included Washington. They've won TWO conference titles this century, and one of those was a three way tie seventeen years ago. I doubt any of the kids in the program remember that one.

Historically UCLA is on par with all the schools you mentioned in the Pac12 except USC. But very few schools have ever dominated a league the way USC has done historically.

Edited November 12, 2017 by CMJ

Cr1028 · November 12, 2017

2 hours ago, NorthTexan95 said:

However, Karen Ashton is the cautionary example. After one sub .500 season at UNT she gets offered the Texas job. It only takes one school to fall in love with Seth and offer him a job he can't turn down.

Not even close to the same. Aston was on UT’s radar before she ever got to us because of working with Jody Conradt for 8 seasons and her Charlotte record. All she had to do was improve on Shanice’s 5-25 record and she was gone. This is Littrell’s second season head coaching regardless of level and none of the places where he coached had him as a long time assistant under a revered hall of fame coach unless Tech views Leach way more favorably than I believe, Still, I just don’t see him moving his family farther from Muskogee.

El Paso Eagle · November 12, 2017

3 hours ago, UNT Mean Green said:

We should anticipate a new contract for Littrell in addition to a larger pool for assistant coaches. I would guess this deal is more in line with AAC or MWC financials than CUSA. Baker and his team are highly intelligent, and know that we have outstanding leadership with a coach who is the right fit to lead this program to championships for as long as he wants.

I would not mind seeing an increase in the bonuses for Seth and an increase in the base pay and bonuses for assistants

greenminer · November 12, 2017

I wonder how ADs perceive the fall of ESPN (TV contracts in general?) and how it factors into projected budgets.

PlummMeanGreen · November 12, 2017

Many of us were shocked when Tech hired Jerry Moore after only 2 years at UNT with a .500 record. Jerry showed he was a great coach at Appalachian State; not so much in Lubbock.

The main bugaboo the boys downtown or the proverbial UNT nesters had with Moore is how he took some pretty good leftover Hayden Fry talent & made it average trying to become a Nebraska 2.0.

GMG!

Edited November 12, 2017 by PlummMeanGreen

BTG_Fan1 · November 12, 2017

2 hours ago, greenminer said:

I wonder how ADs perceive the fall of ESPN (TV contracts in general?) and how it factors into projected budgets.

CUSA ain’t getting much from ESPN, so would get not much.. it would likely lead to Stadium getting a larger share

Mike Jackson · November 12, 2017

3 hours ago, CMJ said:

Okay....but you included Washington. They've won TWO conference titles this century, and one of those was a three way tie seventeen years ago. I doubt any of the kids in the program remember that one.

Historically UCLA is on par with all the schools you mentioned in the Pac12 except USC. But very few schools have ever dominated a league the way USC has done historically.

They were in the playoff last year as conference champions. And 2 national Championship since UCLA claim one in 1954. Would you perfer saying 1. USC 2nd tier the schools I mention and UCLA third tier? UCLA is a great school lovely campus but just isn’t location to win big in football. You can’t be a tier 1 football program but second fiddle in your own city let alone division. Suffice to say if you want to be known as one the best college football coaches in the country UCLA is not a location of first choice.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Mike Jackson

Cerebus · November 12, 2017

Rumors out of Lubbock are that Coach Bro has been told he is safe this year. Next year will be make or break for him.

untjim1995 · November 12, 2017

15 hours ago, risinggreen said:

There were people on here scared that we would lose Benford to TT. Enuff said.

We would have if Bumford could’ve coached above below-average YMCA coach...Tech had money and an opening to go after one of their own.

It was an awful hire, but even if he had done anything in Year 1 that would have convinced anyone that he could coach, dude would have been making bank in Lubbock.

TreeFiddy · November 12, 2017

40 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Rumors out of Lubbock are that Coach Bro has been told he is safe this year. Next year will be make or break for him.

A ~$10M buyout is not an insignificant amount in Lubbuttocks, especially in an depressed energy price environment. Until someone figures out a way to make a lot of money on wind or dust then I think coach Bro has a little more time.

CMJ · November 13, 2017

2 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

They were in the playoff last year as conference champions. And 2 national Championship since UCLA claim one in 1954. Would you perfer saying 1. USC 2nd tier the schools I mention and UCLA third tier? UCLA is a great school lovely campus but just isn’t location to win big in football. You can’t be a tier 1 football program but second fiddle in your own city let alone division. Suffice to say if you want to be known as one the best college football coaches in the country UCLA is not a location of first choice.

Again, they have more conference titles than Washington, Oregon, or Stanford. So, I'd put them all at second tier.

Edited November 13, 2017 by CMJ

KingDL1 · November 13, 2017

On 11/11/2017 at 7:30 PM, Harry said:

Why do we have to accept this?

We don't we just need to make a plan.

I think regardless Seth is here until fine graduates

untjim1995 · November 13, 2017

4 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

A ~$10M buyout is not an insignificant amount in Lubbuttocks, especially in an depressed energy price environment. Until someone figures out a way to make a lot of money on wind or dust then I think coach Bro has a little more time.

They make $30+ million from their media deals...

shootermcgavin44 · November 13, 2017

12 hours ago, NorthTexan95 said:

I'm with BillySee that Seth needs another year to get the kind of job offer he would want.

However, Karen Ashton is the cautionary example. After one sub .500 season at UNT she gets offered the Texas job. It only takes one school to fall in love with Seth and offer him a job he can't turn down.

^^^ SO MUCH THIS

NorthTexan95 · November 13, 2017

9 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

Not even close to the same. Aston was on UT’s radar before she ever got to us because of working with Jody Conradt for 8 seasons and her Charlotte record. All she had to do was improve on Shanice’s 5-25 record and she was gone. This is Littrell’s second season head coaching regardless of level and none of the places where he coached had him as a long time assistant under a revered hall of fame coach unless Tech views Leach way more favorably than I believe, Still, I just don’t see him moving his family farther from Muskogee.

I wasn't really comparing Ashton's situation with Littrell's. I was using her as an example that it only takes one school to fall in love with a coach to offer him a better job.

Cr1028 · November 13, 2017

7 hours ago, NorthTexan95 said:

I wasn't really comparing Ashton's situation with Littrell's. I was using her as an example that it only takes one school to fall in love with a coach to offer him a better job.

Gotcha. I think her and JJ left for the only schools they would’ve left us for. I think maybe Aston would’ve left for Baylor too because of her work with Mulkey but I think it will take a few years for people to poach our football coach. Whatever happens with Chad Morris will be key. I think Littrell is at least one year behind Morris in being hired way.

MeanGreenTexan · November 13, 2017

On 11/11/2017 at 10:25 PM, Harry said:

Why does it have to be accepted that if we hire a good coach and we provide an ecosystem that allows him to be successful we HAVE to realize that he will leave? That’s the OLD DENTON mentality we need to change my friend. Look at my other posts — it does not have to be a GIVEN that he leaves... we could put together a proactive plan to keep him or we could just bow our head down and accept that “well we are North Texas and we can’t expect or do better than this...”. love you grand and I️ mean no disrespect but dammit we have to get out of that mindset or we will be spinning our wheels for decades. Have you looked at our track record on Coaching hires? When we get a keeper we need to keep him! Enough said. GMG!

Because a MINDSET change of #OldDenton VS #NewDenton did not necessarily come with a bump in our boosters' bank accounts.

Big difference.

Seth makes $1million. I would assume the money a P5 can throw at him will be triple+ that amount. UNT has a lot to offer, and is a great place, but money talks Harry.

UNT Mean Green · November 13, 2017

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Because a MINDSET change of #OldDenton VS #NewDenton did not necessarily come with a bump in our boosters' bank accounts.

Big difference.

Seth makes $1million. I would assume the money a P5 can throw at him will be triple+ that amount. UNT has a lot to offer, and is a great place, but money talks Harry.

The major boosters love Seth, and will do their best to keep him here for as long as he wants.

MeanGreenTexan · November 13, 2017

1 minute ago, UNT Mean Green said:

The major boosters love Seth, and will do their best to keep him here for as long as he wants.

Of course! But aloe vera, a down oil market, and a tax firm can only take you so far when talking about millions of dollars/yr. We just generally lack the number of big donors to keep up with the P5's.

MGNation92 · November 13, 2017

11 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Of course! But aloe vera, a down oil market, and a tax firm can only take you so far when talking about millions of dollars/yr. We just generally lack the number of big donors to keep up with the P5's.

Well here's hoping Littrell's success and Bakers fundraising efforts bring in more big money donors.

MeanGreenTexan · November 13, 2017

8 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Well here's hoping Littrell's success and Bakers fundraising efforts bring in more big money donors.

Cerebus · November 13, 2017

12 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

They make $30+ million from their media deals...

Yes and they already spend it. It's not like they live off of ticket sales and then stash all that TV money into the AD's mattress.

untjim1995 · November 13, 2017

8 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Yes and they already spend it. It's not like they live off of ticket sales and then stash all that TV money into the AD's mattress.

I think Tech has more opportunity to buy out Kliff than you think. They have to ask themselves if $6.7 million is too high to pay for another year of suckitude under KK or if they cut bait, pay the amount, and make a hire that brings in some $$$ from having a new coach.

Opportunity costs versus Known costs...its a lot easier to focus on known costs when that's all you've ever done and have very little media money, but Tech isn't in that position. I doubt Kingsbury makes it if they don't finish strong here in 2017. They have TCU at home this week (almost certainly an L), then play at Texas, which would mean a loss equals 5-7 and no bowl. Texas plays at WVU this week (almost certain loss) then plays Tech at home with a 5-6 record as well. Its very likely Tech goes 5-7 (again), with a coach in his 5th season on the job. Keeping him an extra year isn't helping their recruiting any, nor is it helping with fundraising or season ticket buying.

But with all that said, they aren't firing KK to hire another young coach who hasn't had a lot of experience, either. I just don't see him going out there, although I recognize that SL and staff would be a great fit for what they run. I also wouldn't be surprised if Tech doesn't bite the bullet on KK this year, that SL and company are at the top of the list to replace him after 2018. But I just don't see Tech waiting that long.