Church Shooting outside San Antonio

[UNTLifer]

Prayers to all.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-church-scene-shooting-sunday-report/story?id=50945596

 

[GTWT]

It may be best to pray that our legislators & conressmen have the courage & intelligence needed to find ways to keep firearms out of the hands of mad men.

[FirefightnRick]

4 hours ago, GTWT said:

It may be best to pray that our legislators & conressmen have the courage & intelligence needed to find ways to keep firearms out of the hands of mad men.

Of course you have the same wish concerning our immigration policies that allow people who hate our country to enter and rent trucks to run over people, right?

 

Rick

[TheTastyGreek]

It's a church. Seems like a nice one. I think they're probably OK with prayer quantity.

It's a surplus of fired bullets they apparently needed help with. Any ideas? 

Because, like the old saying goes... Pray in one hand, raise the other in a futile, terrified attempt to protect yourself or your children from the gun of an ex military wife beater that's murdering 1/20th of your town's entire population, and see which hand goes cold first. 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

1 hour ago, FirefightnRick said:

Of course you have the same wish concerning our immigration policies that allow people who hate our country to enter and rent trucks to run over people, right?

Of course. Why wouldn't anyone want that?

You have demonized liberals so much in your head that you legitimately believe that liberals don't want to track radicalized citizens? Makes me shake my head. 

 

[Rudy]

Well, at least this board waited until the next morning before making this political and calling for gun control. I guess that's progress.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

1 minute ago, Rudy said:

Well, at least this board waited until the next morning before making this political and calling for gun control. I guess that's progress.

That's absurd. How is trying to find a solution to keeping weapons away from dangerous people -- "political?" 

[FirefightnRick]

23 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

 

You have demonized liberals so much in your head that you legitimately believe that liberals don't want to track radicalized citizens? Makes me shake my head. 

 

I said nothing about liberals in the post you quoted, you did.  But if your gonna make that point then please go ahead, and shake your head al you want.

 

Rick

Edited November 6, 2017 by FirefightnRick

[MeanGreenTexan]

Has anyone really come out with any kind of PLAN for gun control?

After every one of these things there are always people coming out saying, "we need gun control!!", and then there are people that say, "We shouldn't punish the 'good guys' with gun control!!  We need them to combat the 'bad guys'!!"

I've never personally seen anything substantial from either side to try and stem/combat this awful trend... and yes, it's becoming a trend.

A blanket statement of "gun control" is very alarming.   People who believe there should be gun control need to detail their plan, so that the "good guys with guns" are not threatened with losing their guns.   
Likewise, the "good guys with guns" need to look around and see that something is very wrong, and assist in finding a way to stem weapons in the wrong hands... even if it means they don't get to have as many guns.

Status quo is not going to work.     But I can guarantee that "thoughts & prayers" work better than people spouting off without any kind of substance/plan.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

Just now, FirefightnRick said:

I said nothing about liberals in the post you quoted, you did.  But if your gonna make that point then please go ahead, and shake your head al you want.

Ok. You definitely were not talking about Liberals then. My mistake. You must have been talking about the Grand Ole Party.

Accusation via obfuscation. 

[TheTastyGreek]

7 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

That's absurd. How is trying to find a solution to keeping weapons away from dangerous people -- "political?" 

I think, since he was in the military, that technically you are not supporting the troops. 

I also think we have to blame politics for this. In our current political climate, when a veteran sees all those people kneeling, can we really say we're shocked that he got so upset? 

#InsertTheMostRecentPlaceWithA MassShootingStrong

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I can guarantee that "thoughts & prayers" work better than people spouting off without any kind of substance/plan.

Could a unicorn outrun a Sasquatch? 

[FirefightnRick]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Has anyone really come out with any kind of PLAN for gun control?

After every one of these things there are always people coming out saying, "we need gun control!!", and then there are people that say, "We shouldn't punish the 'good guys' with gun control!!  We need them to combat the 'bad guys'!!"

I've never personally seen anything substantial from either side to try and stem/combat this awful trend... and yes, it's becoming a trend.

A blanket statement of "gun control" is very alarming.   People who believe there should be gun control need to detail their plan, so that the "good guys with guns" are not threatened with losing their guns.   
Likewise, the "good guys with guns" need to look around and see that something is very wrong, and assist in finding a way to stem weapons in the wrong hands... even if it means they don't get to have as many guns.

Status quo is not going to work.     But I can guarantee that "thoughts & prayers" work better than people spouting off without any kind of substance/plan.

From everything I've seen/read/heard  about this church shooting is it appears the rules and laws that are already in place that prevents someone who should not be able to purchase a gun to do so...broke down.  

 

Rick

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

From everything I've seen/read/heard  about this church shooting is it appears the rules and laws that are already in place that prevents someone who should not be able to purchase a gun to do so...broke down.  

 

Rick

Then that gap, wherever it is, needs to be found and beefed up significantly with stronger regulations/laws.   
And if a retail shop is guilty of glossing over the rules/laws, that shop needs to be very publicly fined into bankruptcy or worse to send a message to those shops.
 

6 minutes ago, TheTastyGreek said:

Could a unicorn outrun a Sasquatch? 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

There aren't too many laws in place to prevent someone from buying a gun at a garage sale or gun show. Right? 

I think there is a shocking amount of paranoia or ignorance. 

In the US -- we DO NOT study gun violence as a medical/social/science problem. We are hamstrung by laws preventing the collection of data and hamstrung by lack of funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/politics/lack-of-gun-research-and-funding-study/index.html

My good friend is a pediatrician - when she is going through her well child check up with the parents and children, she goes through all the recommended AMA questions and safety recommendations. Are you carseats installed properly? Do you have lead paint? Do you know carbon monoxide detectors? Do use hanging devices like swings in door jambs, bath water depth, water heater temp, etc. etc etc. All good things. In fact, it wasn't until I had my second child that I learned from a new pediatrician that we had  been using our infant seat incorrectly (and my wife is a physician)! Luckily this doctor was there to help recommend safety precautions and keep our kids safe from our misknowledge. 

You know what a pediatrician CANNOT ask? If the parents have a gun in the house. The cannot recommend gun safes. Nothing. Nada. Rien. The NRA has such a lockdown on this topic that it actually prevents real studies from happening and allows the general public to say there is nothing more we can do... and it is just a mental health problem. 

My wife is a physician. She is allowed to ask about depression level. She is allowed to ask about drinking and drugs. She is allowed to note about suicidal ideations or indications for self harm.  She is NOT allowed to ask about guns in the house. She is NOT allowed to note any remarks about potential for violence in regard to guns -- I mean -- why would that matter, right? 

Yet people will continue to say -- "we never saw this coming, no one knew." I doubt it. I bet some professional knew. They were not allowed to note it, act on it or treat it accordingly. All because of a the dirty words "gun control".

 

 

[GTWT]

2 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

Of course you have the same wish concerning our immigration policies that allow people who hate our country to enter and rent trucks to run over people, right?

 

Rick

Of course I do Rick.  I just don't think that can be accomplished by building a wall or by tossing out children who have lived here as Americans & who only want to stay in this, their home.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

5 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Of course I do Rick.  I just don't think that can be accomplished by building a wall or by tossing out children who have lived here as Americans & who only want to stay in this, their home.

Well -- combining the thought of immigrant and dangerous together is the problem.

According to my mass killing index, most mass killings in the states is by citizens. 

[FirefightnRick]

9 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

According to my mass killing index, most mass killings in the states is by citizens. 

Mass Shooting = 4 or more fatalities.

Can you guess how many mass shootings have been recorded to date in the gun free city of Chicago?

 

Rick

Edited November 6, 2017 by FirefightnRick

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

1 minute ago, FirefightnRick said:

Mass Shooting = 4 or more fatalities.

Can you guess how many mass shootings have been recorded to date in the gun free city of Chicago?

 

The obvious way to have a meaningful conversation is to pick the outlier and say that is proof it doesn't work. Ignoring all the successes.  

[FirefightnRick]

45 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

There aren't too many laws in place to prevent someone from buying a gun at a garage sale or gun show. Right? 

I think there is a shocking amount of paranoia or ignorance. 

In the US -- we DO NOT study gun violence as a medical/social/science problem. We are hamstrung by laws preventing the collection of data and hamstrung by lack of funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/politics/lack-of-gun-research-and-funding-study/index.html

My good friend is a pediatrician - when she is going through her well child check up with the parents and children, she goes through all the recommended AMA questions and safety recommendations. Are you carseats installed properly? Do you have lead paint? Do you know carbon monoxide detectors? Do use hanging devices like swings in door jambs, bath water depth, water heater temp, etc. etc etc. All good things. In fact, it wasn't until I had my second child that I learned from a new pediatrician that we had  been using our infant seat incorrectly (and my wife is a physician)! Luckily this doctor was there to help recommend safety precautions and keep our kids safe from our misknowledge. 

You know what a pediatrician CANNOT ask? If the parents have a gun in the house. The cannot recommend gun safes. Nothing. Nada. Rien. The NRA has such a lockdown on this topic that it actually prevents real studies from happening and allows the general public to say there is nothing more we can do... and it is just a mental health problem. 

My wife is a physician. She is allowed to ask about depression level. She is allowed to ask about drinking and drugs. She is allowed to note about suicidal ideations or indications for self harm.  She is NOT allowed to ask about guns in the house. She is NOT allowed to note any remarks about potential for violence in regard to guns -- I mean -- why would that matter, right? 

Yet people will continue to say -- "we never saw this coming, no one knew." I doubt it. I bet some professional knew. They were not allowed to note it, act on it or treat it accordingly. All because of a the dirty words "gun control".

 

 

If we could just all live by the warnings of the infinite pediatrician questionnaire then accidents and death would eventually be eliminated. 

8 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

The obvious way to have a meaningful conversation is to pick the outlier and say that is proof it doesn't work. Ignoring all the successes.  

So Chicago proves gun control doesn't work, right?

 

Rick

Edited November 6, 2017 by FirefightnRick

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

4 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

If we could just all live by the warnings of the infinite pediatrician questionnaire then accidents and death would eventually be eliminated. 

You mean -- medical doctors? Experts in health, risk and all that? 

Though fair enough, I absolutely discount firefighters recommending me to change the battery on my smoke detector when the time changes -- well, because, you know, what do YOU really know?!

If only we listened to firefighters on fire safety then all deaths would eventually be eliminated. 

 

[EagleMBA]

53 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

There aren't too many laws in place to prevent someone from buying a gun at a garage sale or gun show. Right? 

I think there is a shocking amount of paranoia or ignorance. 

In the US -- we DO NOT study gun violence as a medical/social/science problem. We are hamstrung by laws preventing the collection of data and hamstrung by lack of funding.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/politics/lack-of-gun-research-and-funding-study/index.html

My good friend is a pediatrician - when she is going through her well child check up with the parents and children, she goes through all the recommended AMA questions and safety recommendations. Are you carseats installed properly? Do you have lead paint? Do you know carbon monoxide detectors? Do use hanging devices like swings in door jambs, bath water depth, water heater temp, etc. etc etc. All good things. In fact, it wasn't until I had my second child that I learned from a new pediatrician that we had  been using our infant seat incorrectly (and my wife is a physician)! Luckily this doctor was there to help recommend safety precautions and keep our kids safe from our misknowledge. 

You know what a pediatrician CANNOT ask? If the parents have a gun in the house. The cannot recommend gun safes. Nothing. Nada. Rien. The NRA has such a lockdown on this topic that it actually prevents real studies from happening and allows the general public to say there is nothing more we can do... and it is just a mental health problem. 

My wife is a physician. She is allowed to ask about depression level. She is allowed to ask about drinking and drugs. She is allowed to note about suicidal ideations or indications for self harm.  She is NOT allowed to ask about guns in the house. She is NOT allowed to note any remarks about potential for violence in regard to guns -- I mean -- why would that matter, right? 

Yet people will continue to say -- "we never saw this coming, no one knew." I doubt it. I bet some professional knew. They were not allowed to note it, act on it or treat it accordingly. All because of a the dirty words "gun control".

 

 

Very thoughtful post. I appreciated reading it, even though I don't agree with everything you say.

People who are legally prevented from obtaining a firearm but want one are going to find a way to get one. They will steal, they will buy from a thief, they will find an unscrupulous seller.  No amount of laws will prevent that.  The laws on the books now are sufficient to deal with people who violate those laws. The problem is mental health, IMO, and the politically-correct pressure to look the other way.

I just underwent my annual checkup with my long-time personal physician. He asked all of the right questions but if he had asked about my firearms I would have told him it was none of his business.

My audiologist knows, because external noise exposure over time is why I need him. He has a need to know.

Having held a security clearance and passed FBI background checks for both military and civilian positions, having been honorably discharged, and holding a current CHL, I have submitted to all the anal probes I feel are required. Concentrate the fire on those sick or evil people with no moral compass...and do not infringe on my rights in any way.

Edited November 6, 2017 by EagleMBA

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

@EagleMBA  I appreciate your willingness to tell a doctor it is none of their business -- and that is your right. You are not legally required to answer medical questions. It is insane that we have laws preventing the questions though. That is my point. We actually have laws preventing a medical professional from trying to determine risk when it comes to guns. 

[EagleMBA]

3 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

@EagleMBA  I appreciate your willingness to tell a doctor it is none of their business -- and that is your right. You are not legally required to answer medical questions. It is insane that we have laws preventing the questions though. That is my point. We actually have laws preventing a medical professional from trying to determine risk when it comes to guns. 

I love my doctor (in a manly sort of way) and trust him implicitly. He would certainly make an accurate determination if I were as crazy as an outhouse rat (and about to go off) due to his quality experience over time. I'm not sure about a couple of specialists he has referred me to in the past.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that "it takes one to know one", i.e., I would be more comfortable discussing guns with a medical professional who was a fellow NRA member. Maybe one who has had military service. At the moment, my physician and I are at "don't ask, don't tell".  He did go to Texas Tech ("Guns Up!")...does that count?

A law that allows intrusive questioning could open the door to abuse for physicians with an anti-gun agenda, IMO.

 

[FirefightnRick]

35 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

You mean -- medical doctors? Experts in health, risk and all that? 

Though fair enough, I absolutely discount firefighters recommending me to change the battery on my smoke detector when the time changes -- well, because, you know, what do YOU really know?!

If only we listened to firefighters on fire safety then all deaths would eventually be eliminated. 

 

I'm not sure if you read or not.....but Kelly wasn't a child under the care of a pediatrician.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

47 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

 It is insane that we have laws preventing the questions though. That is my point. We actually have laws preventing a medical professional from trying to determine risk when it comes to guns. 

First off, blame the Obama administration for eliminating the questionnaire portion about guns within the nObamacare bill. The concern was that insurance companies could gain access to the information and use it to punish customers.  And now that we are 5 years in and have seen how municipalities in coordination with their carriers have used information collected from their employees on wellness to punish their employees....this damn sure would have happened.

Second, there's nothing that states a physician cannot warn of the dangers of guns or encourage gun safety to their patients.  My children's pediatrician does..  They simply cannot collect data from patients to turn in to someone else..  

Third, it seems to me there's plenty of research opportunity and data collected by other means on this.  If the CDC wants research they can find it thru other means(private funding, university research etc).

 

Rick

Edited November 6, 2017 by FirefightnRick