Under Seth Littrell, UNT is now 6-1 in one score games

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

Just now, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Won the game....that's all I'm saying. You talked specifically about Wilson...give him the ball

Well, I said, "They abandon the run quite frequently." Then I went on to talk about Wilson bc he is our starting running back. But the point is missed if that is the point that you took.

Cerebus · November 6, 2017

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Quoting a sentence from a paragraph when the surrounding sentences explain exactly why I said what I said is lying, yes.

LOL I think I got confused by your improper use of a double negative.

56 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

They abandon the run quite frequently. In many games. And the whole keying, this is BS. I mean, it certainly isn't not true in games.

My mistake. However I feel like I was drawn offside artificially. PPPPPP applies to grammar as well.

3 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

We gained 35 yards on our first 4 plays.

If we had only run every down we would have scored twice on that drive.

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

2 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

We gained 35 yards on our first 4 plays.

Then stalled out. Got the ball back and went down and scored. Then punt, interception, punt. During these punts and interception, running game was having success...Just very limited success due to opportunity.

golfingomez · November 6, 2017

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

Then stalled out. Got the ball back and went down and scored. Then punt, interception, punt. During these punts and interception, running game was having success...Just very limited success due to opportunity.

so really, not from the very first snap... is what you are saying...

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

2 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

so really, not from the very first snap... is what you are saying...

80% of the first half snaps. Same difference I guess.

golfingomez · November 6, 2017

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

80% of the first half snaps. Same difference I guess.

Not really... you said from the very first snap, our offense was 'Stagnant and unable'. then you come back and say on 80% of the first half snaps... so on only 20% of our snaps in the first half we gained 224 yards?

the only 'bad' play of the first half, really, was the INT by Fine, on a bad decision/throw. if you want to say that is bad coaching, ok, but sometimes these guys are going to make mistakes.

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

Just now, golfingomez said:

Not really... you said from the very first snap, our offense was 'Stagnant and unable'. then you come back and say on 80% of the first half snaps... so on only 20% of our snaps in the first half we gained 224 yards?

the only 'bad' play of the first half, really, was the INT by Fine, on a bad decision/throw. if you want to say that is bad coaching, ok, but sometimes these guys are going to make mistakes.

That pick isn't on the staff. I'll never put a pick on the staff unless it becomes missing wide open guys to throw into triple coverage consistently.

Kind of the point I was trying to make, from the beginning of the game it looked difficult for the offense. From the first drive you could tell that the defense was going to have to step up and play football that day. Everything the offense was trying to do looked difficult and awkward.

golfingomez · November 6, 2017

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

That pick isn't on the staff. I'll never put a pick on the staff unless it becomes missing wide open guys to throw into triple coverage consistently.

Kind of the point I was trying to make, from the beginning of the game it looked difficult for the offense. From the first drive you could tell that the defense was going to have to step up and play football that day. Everything the offense was trying to do looked difficult and awkward.

so by your own admission, the pick is not on the staff, and really, the offense should have scored 13-17 points in the first half?

and those 224 yards...

and you are saying the offense was not good from the first snap?

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

6 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

so by your own admission, the pick is not on the staff, and really, the offense should have scored 13-17 points in the first half?

and those 224 yards...

and you are saying the offense was not good from the first snap?

The offense was not good from the beginning of the game. I could instantly tell that LaTech game planned this game well and it was going to be a struggle. So, yes?

That pick is not on this staff, no.

We could've had 17-20 points at the half, sure.

We ran the ball 42 times as a team. 13 of those came in the go-ahead TD drive and the drive to ice the game. Coincidence? Of course not. That's 31% of the games runs on 2 of the most successful drives of the game.

There was a vulnerability there presented by LaTech that we did not expose because of 36 pass attempts. Not sure what is difficult about this concept.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Ben Gooding

GMG24 · November 6, 2017

6 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

The offense was not good from the beginning of the game. I could instantly tell that LaTech game planned this game well and it was going to be a struggle. So, yes?

That pick is not on this staff, no.

We could've had 17-20 points at the half, sure.

We ran the ball 42 times as a team. 13 of those came in the go-ahead TD drive and the drive to ice the game. Coincidence? Of course not. That's 31% of the games runs on 2 of the most successful drives of the game.

There was a vulnerability there presented by LaTech that we did not expose because of 36 pass attempts. Not sure what is difficult about this concept.

They tried playing soft zone and Fine picked them apart, the next option is to play man and heat them up. They did and we didn't respond well. Beating Man coverage with sub par athletes is tough. We had some match ups I liked, but even then you have to beat your dude. FAU gave everyone a blue print on how to have some success against us. When teams get in Man coverage I'd like to see a little more emphasis on the run game, but I also know why you throw there. If your dude wins the battle its 6.

golfingomez · November 6, 2017

i'm trying to get to the fact that you're exaggerating the ineptitude of this team by proclaiming that we came out flat and the offense never looked good. then saying that 80% of the snaps by the offense in the first half were bad.

Now you are saying that La.Tech had a great game plan.

if you are arguing that we did not run the ball enough, Wilson touched the ball 22 times yesterday and i don't think that the coaches want him touching the ball more than 25 times a game due to health concerns

beyond him, the running backs (since i'm assuming you don't want to include Fine's stats) ran the ball 9 times for 37 yards including two runs by Smiley... just over 4 yards a carry... mainly boosted by Smiley's non-traditional runs... Smith was 7 for 23, with a long of 8 yards.

If you want to assume that anyone can step in and do what Wilson was doing, i disagree. La. Tech played a good game. our offense didn't play their best, but we still scored more points than them.

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

1 minute ago, GMG24 said:

They tried playing soft zone and Fine picked them apart, the next option is to play man and heat them up. They did and we didn't respond well. Beating Man coverage with sub par athletes is tough. We had some match ups I liked, but even then you have to beat your dude. FAU gave everyone a blue print on how to have some success against us. When teams get in Man coverage I'd like to see a little more emphasis on the run game, but I also know why you throw there. If your dude wins the battle its 6.

In man you gotta run it. You have to make them prove to you they can stop it with 6-7 in the box. If they don't prove it, you don't move away from it. You force your opponent to adjust to you. Just like in boxing. This simple recipe is what is giving Lane Kiffin a good season at FAU.

4 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

i'm trying to get to the fact that you're exaggerating the ineptitude of this team by proclaiming that we came out flat and the offense never looked good. then saying that 80% of the snaps by the offense in the first half were bad.

Now you are saying that La.Tech had a great game plan.

if you are arguing that we did not run the ball enough, Wilson touched the ball 22 times yesterday and i don't think that the coaches want him touching the ball more than 25 times a game due to health concerns

beyond him, the running backs (since i'm assuming you don't want to include Fine's stats) ran the ball 9 times for 37 yards including two runs by Smiley... just over 4 yards a carry... mainly boosted by Smiley's non-traditional runs... Smith was 7 for 23, with a long of 8 yards.

If you want to assume that anyone can step in and do what Wilson was doing, i disagree. La. Tech played a good game. our offense didn't play their best, but we still scored more points than them.

I exaggerated, sure. Are you good now?

Smith is capable as he proved to be vs ODU. Smith needs to be a stretch zone runner. He is not a 1 cut guy like Wilson. He needs freedom of movement. I think Smith can be just as productive as Wilson has been if the running schemes/plays are called to Smith's strength, and that is perimeter running.

KingDL1 · November 6, 2017

4 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We have the #16 offense in the Nation, and had a top 60/70 defense last year, this year it’s 100+! The #16 offense only got 24 points vs a bunch of backups.. A P5 WR in Guyton, couldn’t handle man to man vs a True Freshman CB at LT?

FAU in game 7 of its system set a conference record for yardage.. they single handily raised the PPG we allow by 5!

We are closer to the end of season 2 than we are we to the start of season 2.. how long do we keep riding this they need time to develop? Georgia state fired its HC and he got hired the same time as SL.. SL let go of TP and everyone is over Biagi but yet give the other phases of the game time to adjust still when the OD/DC have been here a year longer... Missouri fires its DC after something like 2 or 3 games this year..

This team beat expectations last year and it has/ will tie/beat most everyone’s this year.. Instead of us settling for single digit wins, let’s do something bigger. The complaint is not with the record, it’s with the margin of victory.. we are -3 points on the season. We wonder why we don’t recruit well, well it’s because we never put anyone away or we get our butts kicked.., a 1pt victory is nice vs a P5 but a 1pt vs a bunch of g5 backups isn’t impressive, even if it’s a solid program like LT)

I think I understand now, Don't get caught up in that #16 Offense it is simply not true, and a simple factor of our strength of schedule. Meaning that ranking has no consideration for who we have played, it is just a total of stats. You do get if we were in the SEC with this exact team we might have a #126 ranked Offense? Probably worse because that Oline would have been completely destroyed by now and Fine would be out with injuries.

The FAU game should show you that this team still has a lot to learn about maturity and getting prepared mentally.

We are in first place in the West and you are complaining?

You are comparing us to much bigger programs with much more money and I am betting higher recruiting class averages.

I would much prefer to win by double digits but they are getting the job done. In the 4 Dickey bowl years we only beat one team with a winning record. This team is better and it still has a ton of potential.

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

3 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

I think I understand now, Don't get caught up in that #16 Offense it is simply not true, and a simple factor of our strength of schedule. Meaning that ranking has no consideration for who we have played, it is just a total of stats. You do get if we were in the SEC with this exact team we might have a #126 ranked Offense? Probably worse because that Oline would have been completely destroyed by now and Fine would be out with injuries.

The FAU game should show you that this team still has a lot to learn about maturity and getting prepared mentally.

We are in first place in the West and you are complaining?

You are comparing us to much bigger programs with much more money and I am betting higher recruiting class averages.

I would much prefer to win by double digits but they are getting the job done. In the 4 Dickey bowl years we only beat one team with a winning record. This team is better and it still has a ton of potential.

We're 12th in this category. The 12th most talented team in CUSA and 115th nationally. It's all great to do more with less, but imagine doing way more with just a little more. This upcoming class needs to show a lot of attention to the defense and pluck out offensive guys if they just can't be overlooked.

KingDL1 · November 6, 2017

1 minute ago, Ben Gooding said:

We're 12th in this category. The 12th most talented team in CUSA and 115th nationally. It's all great to do more with less, but imagine doing way more with just a little more. This upcoming class needs to show a lot of attention to the defense and pluck out offensive guys if they just can't be overlooked.

If things continue and we stay healthy this year and the next few could be very special years.

Rice and UTEP are going to to kill themselves to be spoilers, so lets lock this up.

Green Mean · November 6, 2017

I'm not really sure what this thread has turned into and what the hell we're arguing about. It's beyond me why we need to apologize for wins. We are effing 6-3 for crying out loud and have a chance to do even more special things this season. College sports fans are the worst.

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

16 minutes ago, Green Mean said:

I'm not really sure what this thread has turned into and what the hell we're arguing about. It's beyond me why we need to apologize for wins. We are effing 6-3 for crying out loud and have a chance to do even more special things this season. College sports fans are the worst.

It's just the uneasiness of how we are winning AND losing. It's an uncomfortable 6-3. Therefore, it could be an abysmal 3-6 this time next season. It doesn't leave one the most optimistic for continued success. Right, wrong, or indifferent, but I think this the basis of the conversation.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Ben Gooding

MeanGreenTexan · November 6, 2017

31 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

If things continue and we stay healthy this year and the next few could be very special years.

Rice and UTEP are going to to kill themselves to be spoilers, so lets lock this up.

I worry more about Rice than UTEP.

UTEP has 'revenge-game' written all over it. It's going to be a very long day for the Miners on Saturday. No Aaron Jones brought UTEP back down to Earth.

By the time Rice rolls around, we (and they) will have nothing to play for (unless FIU beats FAU, then we may have C-USA Championship Game Hosting on the line). I really don't think the guys will be looking past them (because that's already bit them once this year), but we have to watch out for their best shot.

BTG_Fan1 · November 6, 2017

40 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

I think I understand now, Don't get caught up in that #16 Offense it is simply not true, and a simple factor of our strength of schedule. Meaning that ranking has no consideration for who we have played, it is just a total of stats. You do get if we were in the SEC with this exact team we might have a #126 ranked Offense? Probably worse because that Oline would have been completely destroyed by now and Fine would be out with injuries.

The FAU game should show you that this team still has a lot to learn about maturity and getting prepared mentally.

We are in first place in the West and you are complaining?

You are comparing us to much bigger programs with much more money and I am betting higher recruiting class averages.

I would much prefer to win by double digits but they are getting the job done. In the 4 Dickey bowl years we only beat one team with a winning record. This team is better and it still has a ton of potential.

The strength of our schedule? Nearly every team played was even or better teams from SMU to LT. After USM no team was better than UNT, all them were even to UNT because of the beat down and that was when we as fan started to believe/think this could a really special season because we dominated. Again, we got our butts kicked by SMU but yet held our own vs Iowa? We let UAB run and throw it like crazy but yet we shut down UTSA for the most part? We looked like a spring practice defense vs FAU, but yet we can shut down and flip a switch vs USM? The schedule if anything has been likely one of the toughest in CUSA from week 2 to 9, with us having only real “easy” team in ODU. We are not ranked #16 because we have dominated vs CUSA, we have seen our average PPG drop basically every game since USM..

Yes we would likely be lower in the SEC, and if we were in the SEC we would not be happy with the likely results.

Not complaining about the W, I’m complaining at the mindset that we are okay with a 1 Point win vs LT.. dear lord we are not playing Clemson playing Bama for the National championship.. We are playing a damn CUSA West game vs a bunch of 2/3 team guys.

Yea more money would likely help the recruiting, but the biggest draw to recruits is winning and fans. We had a huge wave of momentum after USM and UTSA then crapped the bed and a lost it ALL vs FAU.. You want to see larger budgets, go beat down some CUSA teams like LT like we should have and not settle for 1 Point Wins.. LT and USM recruit better because the challenge tough teams and beat the teams they should by more than single digits...

We have beaten 3 teams with winning records in UAB, UTSA USM and we know about UTSA record being inflated by trash teams.. Everyone else is .500 or below.. We have looked far worse in the losses than we have looked good in the wins..

9 minutes ago, Green Mean said:

I'm not really sure what this thread has turned into and what the hell we're arguing about. It's beyond me why we need to apologize for wins. We are effing 6-3 for crying out loud and have a chance to do even more special things this season. College sports fans are the worst.

What is has become is fans are okay about a 1 Point win and a team that is just getting by in CUSA.. A point win vs a team who may not make a bowl game and that was littered with 2nd and 3rd team guys playing and they hung with us, but yet most people on here were pissed off after a 3-Point wanting more vs a better UAB team.. We complain and ask why recruiting sucks.. it sucks for a number of reasons and the lacking statement/prove it games is another reason... We have given up more points than we have score this year, and that is not a what winning teams do. UNT made a statement vs USM and vs UTSA, and could have made a major one vs LT, even SL has said he fine with close wins but the team needs to focus and win by biggeer margins. We beat UTEP by single digits, we have some major problems.

meangreanmick · November 6, 2017

14 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What is has become is fans are okay about a 1 Point win and a team that is just getting by in CUSA.. A point win vs a team who may not make a bowl game and that was littered with 2nd and 3rd team guys playing and they hung with us, but yet most people on here were pissed off after a 3-Point wanting more vs a better UAB team.. We complain and ask why recruiting sucks.. it sucks for a number of reasons and the lacking statement/prove it games is another reason... We have given up more points than we have score this year, and that is not a what winning teams do. UNT made a statement vs USM and vs UTSA, and could have made a major one vs LT, even SL has said he fine with close wins but the team needs to focus and win by biggeer margins. We beat UTEP by single digits, we have some major problems.

Why don't you drop your "I am better than everyone because I am satisfied with nothing" routine.

Are fans happier with 6-3 with some close wins than 1-11 and getting blown out by Portland State, hell yes and the should be.

There is not a Mean Green fan on here that supports this as the end goal and destination for the football program, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be happy with some small steps forward for once. You have too figure out how to win first on a regular basis by any means necessary and use that as a way to claw upwards in recruiting, etc.

Give me a couple years in a row of winning seasons first before we start complaining about a wrinkled $100.

BTG_Fan1 · November 6, 2017

7 minutes ago, meangreanmick said:

Why don't you drop your "I am better than everyone because I am satisfied with nothing" routine.

Are fans happier with 6-3 with some close wins than 1-11 and getting blown out by Portland State, hell yes and the should be.

There is not a Mean Green fan on here that supports this as the end goal and destination for the football program, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be happy with some small steps forward for once. You have too figure out how to win first on a regular basis by any means necessary and use that as a way to claw upwards in recruiting, etc.

Give me a couple years in a row of winning seasons first before we start complaining about a wrinkled $100.

Ignore me then..

Never once said I was better Or anything. The points is this fan base is so hot or cold.. Happy we beat an underperforming (injury riddled) LT by 1, but pissed off we beat our competition for the west title in UAB by 3 (when most of the same people who are happy about the 1 Point win expected a 2 score W vs UAB)..

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Ignore me then..

Never once said I was better Or anything. The points is this fan base is so hot or cold.. Happy we beat an underperforming (injury riddled) LT by 1, but pissed off we beat our competition for the west title in UAB by 3 (when most of the same people who are happy about the 1 Point win expected a 2 score W vs UAB)..

It's perception man. UAB is perceived an inferior opponent. Injuries or not, but due to LaTech's 5 year run of success, they are perceived a superior opponent as it stands. I wasn't overly happy with either win. Happy, but not pumping my fist catching my wife in the air kind of happy. Though I was exactly like this when Jenkins picked 6 Marshall last year. But that's neither here or there.

Aldo · November 6, 2017

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Ignore me then..

Never once said I was better Or anything. The points is this fan base is so hot or cold.. Happy we beat an underperforming (injury riddled) LT by 1, but pissed off we beat our competition for the west title in UAB by 3 (when most of the same people who are happy about the 1 Point win expected a 2 score W vs UAB)..

I get it. We should have beat UAB and ODU like we did USM, due to game script alone, but we kept them in the game. La Tech is a different team than all of those, except for the young QB. UAB has the best QB out of this bunch, imo.

The offense gave us a preview of what they can be with a consistent defense, special teams, and offense itself. But that hasn't been the case. Coaching, execution have been up and down through every game. But we adjust.

Defenses have schemed out Guyton and attacked the offensive line. Since UTSA, defenses have blitzed and blitzed and blitzed knowing they can disrupt the pass game.

And yet we still win. Give credit where it's due. La Tech is a good team. They have injuries, we have injuries. They have issues, we have issues. This is CUSA. We play to our competition.

We aren't a complete team, but the fact this inconsistent team is pulling out wins is a difference from past teams.

Am I content about that? No, we can be so much better, but right now this is what we got. It's good enough to pull wins, and for damn sure I expect us to be even better next season.

BTG_Fan1 · November 6, 2017

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

It's perception man. UAB is perceived an inferior opponent. Injuries or not, but due to LaTech's 5 year run of success, they are perceived a superior opponent as it stands. I wasn't overly happy with either win. Happy, but not pumping my fist catching my wife in the air kind of happy. Though I was exactly like this when Jenkins picked 6 Marshall last year. But that's neither here or there.

While I agree UAB is viewed as “sub-UNT” because of the bounce back but I said before the game and will again.. UAB has out recruited us, had practiced with the staff the same time as our current staff with them. LT is a solid name on paper to us G5 fans but that LT team was far from what it potentially should/could have been is my case. If LT had all the guys playing like we nearly did, it’s a no contest..

The Jenkins INT/Marshall win was a statement game similar to USM this year because it closed the book on the Portland State game/mindset and USM showed UNT could be a force in CUSA West. While Marshall was down last year (similar to LT is this year) it gave this team that was in need of a mental rebound a prove we can beat D1 teams and win handily. Again, if we go out and have a Marshall type game vs LT, everyone is riding higher and ALOT more waves about UNT are floating around.

Ben Gooding · November 6, 2017

Just now, BTG_Fan1 said:

While I agree UAB is viewed as “sub-UNT” because of the bounce back but I said before the game and will again.. UAB has out recruited us, had practiced with the staff the same time as our current staff with them. LT is a solid name on paper to us G5 fans but that LT team was far from what it potentially should/could have been is my case. If LT had all the guys playing like we nearly did, it’s a no contest..

The Jenkins INT/Marshall win was a statement game similar to USM this year because it closed the book on the Portland State game/mindset and USM showed UNT could be a force in CUSA West. While Marshall was down last year (similar to LT is this year) it gave this team that was in need of a mental rebound a prove we can beat D1 teams and win handily. Again, if we go out and have a Marshall type game vs LT, everyone is riding higher and ALOT more waves about UNT are floating around.

Dude, everyone has out recruited us aside from UTEP and Charlotte.

We have 14 3-star guys on this team, overall. 14. And most, if not all, fall into @BillySee58 classification offer list of about a B or B- player per their offer lists. LaTech has 38 similar players. 38. They can sub in guys that are just as talented as our starters in some cases, but with less experience. And experience does matter when a guy has minimal to none. Point is, LaTech's subs are way, way more talented than UNT's. And that is why the game was winnable for LaTech. That and some coaching blunders.