Home Of The 109th Ranked Defense

UNTLifer · October 23, 2017

1 hour ago, wardly said:

If memory serves, I am 74]when we would score a touchdown our player would give some sort of an eagle claw salute, which the refs thought was an obscene gesture and would flag us for un sportsman like conduct , assessing us a 15 yard penalty on the kickoff. As a result, Navy had great field position all day.

Vizza had hit the WR from his high school, Sam Dibrell, in stride for a long TD. He raised the "Eagle Talon" at about the 5 yard line and held it up as he scored. We were flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct.

TreeFiddy · October 23, 2017

I guess I haven't kept up. Is it common for teams that run the Air Raid offense to have top defenses? Just from the list posted earlier in this thread, I recognize SMU, UNC, and West Virginia as teams running similar offenses and that also have defenses ranked down in the 100's. Haven't looked to see where TTech is ranked, but they normally struggle with defense. Seems like it kind of comes with the territory.

BTG_Fan1 · October 23, 2017

28 minutes ago, Aldo said:

I’m pulling my hair out that you’re calling it bailed out. You accept (like me) that the defense is bad, but the other facets of the game are good enough to keep us afloat, at minimum, give us a winning record at most.

Bailed out or the other facets of the game we improved and able to overcome our defensive problems? Because it is a problem, but there’s been enough improvement in coaching, talent, and scheme to keep the defense off the field.

The offense, Trevor Moore, and outcoaching the other team has put us at 4-3. The defense has almost snatched the 4-3 away. But it wasn’t.

This offense is in year two and will be setting team records.

This defense made FAU look better than they actually are.

We did not outcoach UTSA or UAB... I'm sorry.. All that it was, was we got 1 extra drive and they did not... You can pull your hair out, but if it was our defense in the situations we had UAB and UTSA in, they likely could have moved the ball.. I mean do you honestly trust this defense to make a stand, heck they did vs UTSA till UTSA decided to punt it on 4th and short..

USM we outcoached them in the 2nd half..

Yes this offense will set records, but FAU set A CUSA RECORD... Not just a FAU record, but a conference...

Yes this defense made FAU look better than they actually are, no one has fought that.. The point is this was CUSA record for total yardage given up, and UNT is lucky that FAU did not keep going.. I'm sorry but that alone has to put Reff on the hot seat on top of the subpar performances vs UAB, and SMU... Reff needs to go out and shut down and dominate UTEP and Rice to just even it out.. Even then we should shut down and dominate UTEP and Rice...

20 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

Obviously one very important thing about that game is already being forgotten: The defense held UTSA to only 63 yards, 1/5 on 3rd downs and 3 points in the 3rd quarter. Also, they got the ball back for the offense to have the Drive. Who bailed out whom? Seems like it was a complimentary team effort.

Also, the point about players and 'enough' players is about depth, not individual talents. When Nate Brooks was getting beat, they subbed in Eric Jenkins a starter-level talent. When others are not playing well we . . . try to make do. That's the point about depth. There needs to be talent behind the starters to push and fill in.

Yes UNT had 1 good Qtr vs UTSA, 2 vs USM and 3 vs Iowa, hell you can include the 4 vs Lamar (even though Lamar was not ready to play), and the 1st half vs UAB...

This defense was trash for 4 Qtrs vs SMU and FAU, 2 vs USM, and 2 Qtrs vs UAB...

Again it was luck that UNT got the final drives vs UAB and UTSA... That is why its a bailing out the defense, because the defense was NOT getting the job done late.. This defense has been worse more than it has been good...

The idea that they don't have enough players is dumb.. How many timeouts did SL call to rest his guys vs FAU? The coaches will not say they don't trust anyone, but we as fans can assume that.. If the guys you have do not fit your scheme, you change it..

Edited October 23, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

wardly · October 23, 2017

5 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Vizza had hit the WR from his high school, Sam Dibrell, in stride for a long TD. He raised the "Eagle Talon" at about the 5 yard line and held it up as he scored. We were flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct.

I thought this happened several times, but don't remember[refer to being 74]

Aldo · October 24, 2017

4 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We did not outcoach UTSA or UAB... I'm sorry.. All that it was, was we got 1 extra drive

Again it was luck that UNT got the final drives vs UAB and UTSA...

We got an extra drive to do what? Luck ourselves to wins? Forcing the opponent to go 3 and out - instead of clinching the game on a 4th down conversion - and then coming back 98 yards for the go ahead score is not luck. Handing the ball off when they’re expecting pass to set up the game winning field goal is not luck.

The defense putting us in bad games because they’re outmatched, and the offense getting us wins anyway, is not luck.

4 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The idea that they don't have enough players is dumb..

Last season they had enough scholarship players to field an FCS team. This year they’re still under. What does that equal? Depth issues. Calling on a safety FCS transfer to take heavy number of snaps at LB. Losing your best and heaviest DT (on paper) for more than half the season, pushing guys from one position to another. Etc etc.

This roster is not complete. And it shows.

MGNation92 · October 24, 2017

21 minutes ago, Aldo said:

We got an extra drive to do what? Luck ourselves to wins? Forcing the opponent to go 3 and out - instead of clinching the game on a 4th down conversion - and then coming back 98 yards for the go ahead score is not luck. Handing the ball off when they’re expecting pass to set up the game winning field goal is not luck.

The defense putting us in bad games because they’re outmatched, and the offense getting us wins anyway, is not luck.

Last season they had enough scholarship players to field an FCS team. This year they’re still under. What does that equal? Depth issues. Calling on a safety FCS transfer to take heavy number of snaps at LB. Losing your best and heaviest DT (on paper) for more than half the season, pushing guys from one position to another. Etc etc.

This roster is not complete. And it shows.

So we had more depth last season? Because that defense finished higher than what we're doing this year. I get your logic, but in this case it doesn't make sense. How could we have less depth in year 2?

BTG_Fan1 · October 24, 2017

8 minutes ago, Aldo said:

We got an extra drive to do what? Luck ourselves to wins? Forcing the opponent to go 3 and out - instead of clinching the game on a 4th down conversion - and then coming back 98 yards for the go ahead score is not luck. Handing the ball off when they’re expecting pass to set up the game winning field goal is not luck.

The defense putting us in bad games because they’re outmatched, and the offense getting us wins anyway, is not luck.

--------------------------------------

Last season they had enough scholarship players to field an FCS team. This year they’re still under. What does that equal? Depth issues. Calling on a safety FCS transfer to take heavy number of snaps at LB. Losing your best and heaviest DT (on paper) for more than half the season, pushing guys from one position to another. Etc etc.

This roster is not complete. And it shows.

The KR vs UAB, was luck getting it to mid-field, when people here have said the ST sucks.. The Lawerence pass again, luck.. A guy jumped a fraction early and Lawrence gave him a slight shove too.. That is luck.. Just like it was luck that UTSA punted and it was downed at our 2, and did not roll into the endzone.. How is luck forcing them to punt? no the defense made a stand (one of the few this season) and lucky enough they punted instead of go for it, which was a smart move since they were around the 30-40 of UNT, why go for it on 4th and get stuffed or throw a incomplete or not get the first down and give UNT even better field position??? When you can put it and if it's a touchback, they still have to go 80 for a TD..

The defense has regressed from last year, when the defense won us games because of turnovers and holding ALOT more than it has this year...

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They have 80 players on scholarship, so they are 5 short.. then you have guys like Lawerence who is a POW that is out-performing scholarship guys.. So this whole they are 5 short doesn't make any real sense..

Injuries are something that happen, They have shifted the DL around and it has not been the problem, if anything it has been the best position group on the entire defense.. Again, if they don't like McDonald at LB they have other options, they can use Fulp at any time (but they have not), Lemaster, etc... but they do like the former safety now LB...

Aldo · October 24, 2017

15 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

So we had more depth last season? Because that defense finished higher than what we're doing this year. I get your logic, but in this case it doesn't make sense. How could we have less depth in year 2?

FEI ratings had us in the 100s for defense last season (and worse than this season so far). S&P had us nearly at 100 (and better than this season). ypg is about 15 yards worse per game now. Points per game is about 5 worse now.

Point: They’re both bad defenses. Biggest change this year is an historic offense with better talent, execution, and play calling.

Our standard downs defense has gotten a lot better this season. Our passing downs defense is really really bad.

But about depth: if we have one dude that’s bad, we can’t go and put someone else in. That worked for Brooks and Jenkins, and the D line. With LB? We moved a safety from an FCS there. We gained about 5-10 scholarship players this season across 22 positions.

MGNation92 · October 24, 2017

2 minutes ago, Aldo said:

FEI ratings had us in the 100s for defense last season (and worse than this season so far). S&P had us nearly at 100 (and better than this season). ypg is about 15 yards worse per game now. Points per game is about 5 worse now.

Point: They’re both bad defenses. Biggest change this year is an historic offense with better talent, execution, and play calling.

Our standard downs defense has gotten a lot better this season. Our passing downs defense is really really bad.

But about depth: if we have one dude that’s bad, we can’t go and put someone else in. That worked for Brooks and Jenkins, and the D line. With LB? We moved a safety from an FCS there. We gained about 5-10 scholarship players this season across 22 positions.

Historic offense until they bracket Guyton and stack the box against Wilson. FAU pretty much gave every team on the schedule the blueprint to beat us. Obviously no other team has the kind of tempo run game they do, but that clearly hasn't mattered much.

Aldo · October 24, 2017

44 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The Lawerence pass again, luck..

Luck is the Lawrence pass.

Good coaching, combined with a good offense is winning games from a deficit, getting your team to 4-3, instead of packing it up in the first quarter against USM. That quarter we were outscored 14-7. Then quarters 2-4 we ourscored them 36-14.

If you think we’ve lucked ourselves into 4-3 after going through the most difficult part of the schedule, what word are we going to use when we roll ODU, Rice, and UTEP? Are we going to put a caveat on that too and say “well they suck”.

We crapped the bed hard in two games, but give me the 4 Ws.

ETA: if you think we bumbled and lucked ourselves into 4 wins instead of playing 4 quarters of football, you’re giving our opponents way more benefit of the doubt than your own team. We beat good teams plain and simple. USM, UAB, and UTSA are still contenders. And we beat them after 4 quarters cause that’s what football is.

11 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Historic offense until they bracket Guyton and stack the box against Wilson. FAU pretty much gave every team on the schedule the blueprint to beat us. Obviously no other team has the kind of tempo run game they do, but that clearly hasn't mattered much.

We didn’t play up to par, and that was evident. The team didn’t look like the team that we had seen the past three games.

Come home, take the wake up call, and take names. With pen.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Aldo

Aquila_Viridis · October 24, 2017

This defense will be fine as long as the offense puts up 70 points every game.

BTG_Fan1 · October 24, 2017

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Luck is the Lawrence pass.

Good coaching, combined with a good offense is winning games from a deficit, getting your team to 4-3, instead of packing it up in the first quarter against USM. That quarter we were outscored 14-7. Then quarters 2-4 we ourscored them 36-14.

If you think we’ve lucked ourselves into 4-3 after going through the most difficult part of the schedule, what word are we going to use when we roll ODU, Rice, and UTEP? Are we going to put a caveat on that too and say “well they suck”.

We crapped the bed hard in two games, but give me the 4 Ws.

ETA: if you think we bumbled and lucked ourselves into 4 wins instead of playing 4 quarters of football, you’re giving our opponents way more benefit of the doubt than your own team. We beat good teams plain and simple. USM, UAB, and UTSA are still contenders. And we beat them after 4 quarters cause that’s what football is.

The completion to Lawerence was nothing but luck.. Fine even said that himself on the coaches show, saying he was going to throw it no matter what.. Heck they tried the same play the play before and Rico was out of bounds..

Again, I have said they outcoached USM in the 2nd half... because we were losing at half...

We have lucked ourselves into it.. Just like how UTSA was lucked into 2 loses vs USM and UTSA by 5 points in the final minutes.. We got the ball to bounce our way by us getting the ball late.. Again we are a missed FG away from going to OT vs UAB, who had figured it out on defense.. UTSA they had this offenses number as well.. we could easily be 2-5 if it was not for the UAB/UTSA last second scores..

Yes we have crapped the bed, allowing historic days.. Sutton 4 TDs.. FAU set a CUSA record which is saying alot for a conference that has had many top offenses (Last year they had multiple in the top 15)... This defense has been terrible and saying its only been bad in 2 games is dumb since we have 3 loses.. They played like trash at SMU and FAU.. They played terrible vs a UAB allowing 43 points, remember UAB was supposed to be an easy W.. The Iowa game they played solid but still gave up 31... Its really sad that we view 31 as a solid defensive game vs a running team and our defensive strength is stopping the run...

Way more benefit of the doubt? I was posted before UAB that we should not overlook them, I said before UTSA that we need to focus in for the next month of critical games and yet the team overlooks and gives up a historic day to FAU, we better hope to god the FAU does not carry over and lose to ODU.. Yes UNT faced 3 of the 4 tough teams in the west and went 3-0, but they have not faced what was viewed as the class of the west in LAT.. They still gave up 43 to UAB, the defense grew a spin and allowed the offense to take a hold of USM and UTSA again, the defense got lucky after giving up the passing TD to the RB (which lucky left enough time for 2 UNT drives)... This defense made FAU look like a damn Madden game on rookie mode..

Yes we got the Ws vs USM, UAB, UTSA but still does not change the fact that we have had 2 abortions of games vs FAU and SMU.. Again, a W is a W and we all will take 8-4 and the West bid (if it happens) but this defense is terrible. Reff has more of his guys and the defense has gotten worse.. Reff has more time in the systeam and it got worse.. Hell he has our all-conference CB on the bench and our all-conference S looking completely lost out there.. This defense needs to show some improvement over ODU, Army, Rice, UTEP, and it can't be much easier than that.. The tough part of the sch. is done and we have no excuses for crap performances its time to shut down the teams at the bottom of the conference and prove to the fans, recruits, etc that this is real..

meangreen08 · October 24, 2017

23 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

Hot Take: In the world of college football today, unless you’re in the SEC, defense doesn’t need to be good. It just has to be serviceable enough that you can outscore the other offense. Some of you may prefer a different play style (a la Danny Mac with his “pro style” approach) but I honestly prefer just run up the score and see who ends up with the most points.

GMG24 · October 24, 2017

18 hours ago, Venson said:

Not saying the team is bad, just that the defense is. I know it's a team sport, but damn that defense is a huge liability. You can't replace the players. You have to play with what you have. You can only recruit better, bring in better JUCO talent and coach up what you have. The problem is we haven't coached up what we have. The offense has made great strides, but the defense is regressing.

The offense did not help the defense even slightly in that game. After they opened the game on a 75 yard drive in 3:07 , we went out there had the ball for a grand total of 5 plays and 2:19 Defense right back on field and a short one at that.

Their offense strikes again from 50 yards out and 2:53, our Offense goes 3 plays 55 seconds INT.

Defense on the field for 8 plays 2:03 and a 45 yard drive resulting in a FG.

Offense back out for an amazing 4 plays and 1:52.

Our Offense never gave the defense a chance to recover, make an adjustment and try to play. You can't get something changed or corrected in 55 seconds, and damn near impossible in 2 minutes. Should D have played better absolutely!! But this offense has to carry its weight and match a big time offensive opponent with at least a drive long enough to let the defense breath and get coached up on adjustments.

Aldo · October 24, 2017

9 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We have lucked ourselves into it.. Just like how UTSA was lucked into 2 loses vs USM and UTSA by 5 points in the final minutes.. We got the ball to bounce our way by us getting the ball late.. Again we are a missed FG away from going to OT vs UAB, who had figured it out on defense.. UTSA they had this offenses number as well.. we could easily be 2-5 if it was not for the UAB/UTSA last second scores..

Yeesh that's not luck. That's getting your butt back on the field and taking care of business. Missing the FG would be luck. Instead, Darden made a play. Then Wilson made a play. Then Moore made a play.

The pass to Bussey wasn't luck. It was repetition. Practice.

Look we both agree that the defense is bad. But we're 4-3 because in those other games, the defense did *just* enough to keep us in the game, and the offense responded. That's not luck. That's working with what you've got.

The last game, no one showed up. Not the coaches, offense, or defense. The offense is what will keep us afloat.

In year 2.

In year 2!

The defense continues to be bad (top 90 or top 100 is not good). But give it time. Don't care what kind of a turnaround Kiffin does in year 1. This ain't FAU.

aztecskin · October 24, 2017

As if luck is not a necessary ingredient to winning.

Ben Gooding · October 24, 2017

39 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Yeesh that's not luck. That's getting your butt back on the field and taking care of business. Missing the FG would be luck. Instead, Darden made a play. Then Wilson made a play. Then Moore made a play.

The pass to Bussey wasn't luck. It was repetition. Practice.

Look we both agree that the defense is bad. But we're 4-3 because in those other games, the defense did *just* enough to keep us in the game, and the offense responded. That's not luck. That's working with what you've got.

The last game, no one showed up. Not the coaches, offense, or defense. The offense is what will keep us afloat.

In year 2.

In year 2!

The defense continues to be bad (top 90 or top 100 is not good). But give it time. Don't care what kind of a turnaround Kiffin does in year 1. This ain't FAU.

FAU is in year 1.

Year 1!

Just now, aztecskin said:

As if luck is not a necessary ingredient to winning.

True.

Aldo · October 24, 2017

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

FAU is in year 1.

Year 1!

42 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Don't care what kind of a turnaround Kiffin does in year 1. This ain't FAU.

A roster that was left in shambles hasn't recovered after a season and a half?

Color me surprised.

Oh and where tf have you been Ben while we were 4-2? We lost a horrible game and you come trottin in? Welcome back, I guess.

This team is what it is. Carried by the offense until all the pieces come together.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Aldo

BTG_Fan1 · October 24, 2017

41 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Yeesh that's not luck. That's getting your butt back on the field and taking care of business. Missing the FG would be luck. Instead, Darden made a play. Then Wilson made a play. Then Moore made a play.

The pass to Bussey wasn't luck. It was repetition. Practice.

Look we both agree that the defense is bad. But we're 4-3 because in those other games, the defense did *just* enough to keep us in the game, and the offense responded. That's not luck. That's working with what you've got.

The last game, no one showed up. Not the coaches, offense, or defense. The offense is what will keep us afloat.

In year 2.

In year 2!

The defense continues to be bad (top 90 or top 100 is not good). But give it time. Don't care what kind of a turnaround Kiffin does in year 1. This ain't FAU.

1- it wasn’t Darden it was Johnson, no biggie.. It was luck because they had not done anything the weeks leading up to it, and a # of people saying fire MB, but yet ST has laid how many crap performances? Remember it’s Year 1 of the ST system.. also that was game 1 of the walk on LS as well..

2- The incomplete pass to Rico was not luck, because it did not do anything.. Are we lucky when we don’t win the lotto? Or are we lucky when we DO win the lotto? Again the pass to Lawerence was Luck, you can think it was destiny or because of practice but Fine said it was luck.

You say give it time, we have other schools fire coaches that were brought in at same time as Ref... Ref and his defense looked like Rookie mode, and gave up a Conference record and you want to say “give it time”.. when is time up? Dear lord it’s been 2 blow outs this year, multiple last year..

Yes no one showed up but atleast the offense did something, the defense did not.. Hell ST even did stuff..

4 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

As if luck is not a necessary ingredient to winning.

It is necessary but saying UAB and UTSA were solid performances is wrong.. the defense buckled vs UAB, and it was it was solid but yet the offense struggled.. UNT regularly has 1 unit under perform and it has usually been the defense with the offense doing the heavy lifting..

TIgreen01 · October 24, 2017

1 hour ago, GMG24 said:

The offense did not help the defense even slightly in that game. After they opened the game on a 75 yard drive in 3:07 , we went out there had the ball for a grand total of 5 plays and 2:19 Defense right back on field and a short one at that.

Their offense strikes again from 50 yards out and 2:53, our Offense goes 3 plays 55 seconds INT.

Defense on the field for 8 plays 2:03 and a 45 yard drive resulting in a FG.

Offense back out for an amazing 4 plays and 1:52.

Our Offense never gave the defense a chance to recover, make an adjustment and try to play. You can't get something changed or corrected in 55 seconds, and damn near impossible in 2 minutes. Should D have played better absolutely!! But this offense has to carry its weight and match a big time offensive opponent with at least a drive long enough to let the defense breath and get coached up on adjustments.

That all makes sense....until you look at the second half. With an entire halftime to rest and adjust we did no better in the second half. Maybe you can argue the team had quit by then, down 41-7.?

MeanGreenTexan · October 24, 2017

25 minutes ago, Aldo said:

...

Quote

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Don't care what kind of a turnaround Kiffin does in year 1. This ain't FAU.

Oh and where tf have you been Ben while we were 4-2? We lost a horrible game and you come trottin in? Welcome back, I guess.

This team is what it is. Carried by the offense until all the pieces come together.

Are you arguing with yourself?
I mean, I agree with both of you.

GMG24 · October 24, 2017

35 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

That all makes sense....until you look at the second half. With an entire halftime to rest and adjust we did no better in the second half. Maybe you can argue the team had quit by then, down 41-7.?

I'll argue when we went for it on 4th down inside our own 30 and didn't get it the team more or less shut it down.

tmjerm · October 24, 2017

On 10/23/2017 at 7:51 AM, AustinFromUNT said:

Hot Take: In the world of college football today, unless you’re in the SEC, defense doesn’t need to be good. It just has to be serviceable enough that you can outscore the other offense. Some of you may prefer a different play style (a la Danny Mac with his “pro style” approach) but I honestly prefer just run up the score and see who ends up with the most points.

Lawd have mercy

aztecskin · October 24, 2017

2 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

It is necessary but saying UAB and UTSA were solid performances is wrong.. the defense buckled vs UAB, and it was it was solid but yet the offense struggled.. UNT regularly has 1 unit under perform and it has usually been the defense with the offense doing the heavy lifting..

It would be better if you laid out your criteria for a solid performance. Also I do not understand the first sentence: "saying it was solid is wrong . . . it was solid ..."

Against UTSA I would give the defense a B. They held UTSA to below their averages in points and yards, held them to below 50% 3rd downs, below 60% passing completion, held them to 3 points and 63 yards in the third quarter in which the offense had 19 yards total, and got the ball back for the offense on the final drive. Like how in the world is that not at least _solid_. Is it great? No. Solid? What else could it be?

Against UAB the easy thing would be to look at the score, and the big plays and then spout a hot take. If you look closer you see that the line got to AJ Erdely, they shut down the run game. The big passes were awful and bad and . . . mostly corrected by putting in EJ over NB.

Playing awfully against FAU does not erase what happened earlier.

MeanGreenTexan · October 24, 2017

14 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

It would be better if you laid out your criteria for a solid performance. Also I do not understand the first sentence: "saying it was solid is wrong . . . it was solid ..."

Against UTSA I would give the defense a B. They held UTSA to below their averages in points and yards, held them to below 50% 3rd downs, below 60% passing completion, held them to 3 points and 63 yards in the third quarter in which the offense had 19 yards total, and got the ball back for the offense on the final drive. Like how in the world is that not at least _solid_. Is it great? No. Solid? What else could it be?

Against UAB the easy thing would be to look at the score, and the big plays and then spout a hot take. If you look closer you see that the line got to AJ Erdely, they shut down the run game. The big passes were awful and bad and . . . mostly corrected by putting in EJ over NB.

Playing awfully against FAU does not erase what happened earlier.

It makes me wonder if people are actually paying attention. Or, maybe have memory loss issues with occurrences 1 week + prior.