Jeffery Wilson

[Venson]

Is it me or is the offense going away from Wilson. It's almost as if they are purposely not giving him the ball. I understand the Tee it high and let it fly mentality, but they have to understand that Wilson is still their best player and they just do not give him enough touches per game for me. It's like they are sure Wilson will reach a 1,000 and that they are just trying to get Fine to 3,000 and Guyton to 1,000. Why else would Fine play a whole game that was over by halftime? What are your thoughts?

Edited October 22, 2017 by Venson
Misspelled words.

[NT93]

I hope the coaches have zero concern for getting players stats.

[Ben Gooding]

7 minutes ago, Venson said:

Is it me or is the offense going away from Wilson. It's almost as if they are purposely not giving him the ball. I understand the Tee it high and let it fly mentality, but they have to understand that Wilson is still their best player and they just do not give him enough touches per game for me. It's like they are sure Wilson will reach a 1,000 and that they are just trying to get Fine to 3,000 and Guyton to 1,000. Why else would Fine play a whole game that was over by halftime? What are your thoughts?

Yes. Very much so. You can almost feel it in the momentum of the game as they quickly move away from Wilson then to only hand him the ball in difficult obvious run downs. Same stuff happened vs UTSA, but it was overlooked because we somehow won. 

I sit end zone seats front row in Apogee for home games. When this feeling or momentum starts to happen I have a guy on my very row that screams out over and over and over again to give the ball to Wilson. It's nice. He saves my voice for other things. And between him and I, no one else of at least ear shot of me says much of anything or evenvcheers on 3rd down, etc. 

[BTG_Fan1]

11 minutes ago, Venson said:

Is it me or is the offense going away from Wilson. It's almost as if they are purposely not giving him the ball. I understand the Tee it high and let it fly mentality, but they have to understand that Wilson is still their best player and they just do not give him enough touches per game for me. It's like they are sure Wilson will reach a 1,000 and that they are just trying to get Fine to 3,000 and Guyton to 1,000. Why else would Fine play a whole game that was over by halftime? What are your thoughts?

He took a big hit before half and landed on his shoulder (plus 1 or 2 FAU players) but the crew said he got hit in the elbow.. he came in later and ran once and left not moving/gingerly moving that arm.. he also laid a pretty big blow to a UTSA player in the 4th (I believe) and was in pain (both times he favored the same shoulder/arm his left).. 

wilson runs like a 220-225 lb RB and is dinged up most likely. 

This game was not going to be a running game because of FAUs ability to dominate our Defense... them running and scoring made it so we had to pass

Edited October 22, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

[Venson]

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

He took a big hit before half and landed on his shoulder (plus 1 or 2 FAU players) but the crew said he got hit in the elbow.. he came in later and ran once and left not moving/gingerly moving that arm.. he also laid a pretty big blow to a UTSA player in the 4th (I believe) and was in pain (both times he favored the same shoulder/arm his left).. 

wilson runs like a 220-225 lb RB and is dinged up most likely. 

Thanks for the update. I still think they don't give him enough touches. At the end of the day, we are still playing with a lot of McCarney's players and they were built to run the football. All of Littrell's recruits are sophomores, freshmen, or redshirt freshmen. The ones who are not are JC players.

[GrandGreen]

10 minutes ago, NT93 said:

I hope the coaches have zero concern for getting players stats.

By leaving a banged up Fine in to the end, I think they are very concerned about stats.   

[Venson]

Just now, GrandGreen said:

By leaving a banged up Fine in to the end, I think they are very concerned about stats.   

That was my thoughts. They should have brought Shanbour in.

[NT93]

1 minute ago, GrandGreen said:

By leaving a banged up Fine in to the end, I think they are very concerned about stats.   

I don't know if has to do with getting him stats or not, but I agree, it makes no sense.

[GrandGreen]

1 minute ago, NT93 said:

I don't know if has to do with getting him stats or not, but I agree, it makes no sense.

The only other answer is they just don't have anybody else, which they do.  

Whether Fine was left in to pad his stats, the offensive stats, or just to keep from losing by a few more tds; it is still related to making the stats look a little better than if someone else was at QB.  

What most coaches would have done is put in a sub, and run the ball to eat as much clock as possible. 

[BTG_Fan1]

9 minutes ago, Venson said:

Thanks for the update. I still think they don't give him enough touches. At the end of the day, we are still playing with a lot of McCarney's players and they were built to run the football. All of Littrell's recruits are sophomores, freshmen, or redshirt freshmen. The ones who are not are JC players.

Agreed at time they don’t but they do need to keep the carries monitored.. he has a history of injuries and cramps, also with him leaving it’s likely smart to get smith action on top of his performance in practice is worth of PT as well.

I would rather them sit Wilson vs ODU and get him close to 100% for LAT/Army/UTEP, but he won’t let that happen. I’m just glad he was able to not suffer anything major like a pulled calf/hammy in that humidity on top of the turf conditions with players losing their footing.

8 minutes ago, NT93 said:

I don't know if has to do with getting him stats or not, but I agree, it makes no sense.

I wish Vito had asked this, but it needs to be asked and I hope @Matthew Brune asks or can find out why Fine was left in

[AustinFromUNT]

I think they kept Fine in for the game experience. He is a true sophomore. Every play he is in is more film he gets to watch of himself. He’s our future QB (Next 2 years at least), so you should at least salvage something out of this game.

[Mean_Green09]

29 minutes ago, AustinFromUNT said:

I think they kept Fine in for the game experience. He is a true sophomore. Every play he is in is more film he gets to watch of himself. He’s our future QB (Next 2 years at least), so you should at least salvage something out of this game.

Was the extra quarter going to make him a better player? No. He didn’t deserve to be out there. It was pure stubbornness by this staff leaving him out there to take more shots. Same thing with Guyton. 

It was a chance to let the backups play and get some development. 

SL was probably hoping to get some kind of momentum going into the next game by hoping that they would end on a good note. Unfortunately by leaving the starters in he probably did more damage. 

Stupid & Stubborn 

[aztecskin]

15 hours ago, Venson said:

Is it me or is the offense going away from Wilson. It's almost as if they are purposely not giving him the ball. I understand the Tee it high and let it fly mentality, but they have to understand that Wilson is still their best player and they just do not give him enough touches per game for me. It's like they are sure Wilson will reach a 1,000 and that they are just trying to get Fine to 3,000 and Guyton to 1,000. Why else would Fine play a whole game that was over by halftime? What are your thoughts?

yep. I said before the game that I thought Jeff could get big yards against them especially if they were concerned about Guyton (they were). Jeff's first carry was for like 8 yards and then we went away from that. While we did try to give it to him on short yardage, the numbers overwhelming show we do much better on 1st and 2nd down going to him. 

 

[Cr1028]

14 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

By leaving a banged up Fine in to the end, I think they are very concerned about stats.   

Mitch Maher, they have you as one of their top concerns.

[BTG_Fan1]

9 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

I think they kept Fine in for the game experience. He is a true sophomore. Every play he is in is more film he gets to watch of himself. He’s our future QB (Next 2 years at least), so you should at least salvage something out of this game.

I know that this did not happen, but if Fine had gone out and gets injured is it worth those extra 10/15 snaps? What if he had been injured and was going to miss 3/4 weeks? That means he misses LAT and possibly Army.. That means we are down to 1 QB with actual game experience in Quinn who had 1 drive vs WKU (last year), 1 drive (2 plays) vs Iowa, and 2 or 3 series vs Lamar.. 

Mason was already banged up from before the bye week, and had been hit ALOT vs UTSA, and in that game.. Give the kid a breather.. Let Quinn come in and play.. Heck if they were that worried about allowing him to get experience, why did he come out vs Lamar? 

I get the point but the staff can not sale me on they left in the offense or defense for experience.. because they get the vast # of the reps during the week and games.. You can't sale me on the positives (of playing young guys) because I did not see guys them go deep into the WR pool, nor did I see the likes of T.Davis, Sanders, Johnson, Tony K that are true-freshman playing on defense..Heck they even had Tucker running the ball late and he is a RS SR.. 

[Cr1028]

Maybe they don't want a qb controversy. Maybe Quinn's 80% completion percentage with the lone incompletion being a drop by Hair-Griffin has them scared to put him in. Maybe the poise and maturity he showed in Iowa City in his lone drive has them frightened for some reason. Maybe Quinn isn't "special". No telling but my feeling after the FAU game is that unless Mason is forced off the field due to injury or his helmet coming off, Shanbour will not see the field unless with the field goal team....period.

[Venson]

10 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

Maybe they don't want a qb controversy. Maybe Quinn's 80% completion percentage with the lone incompletion being a drop by Hair-Griffin has them scared to put him in. Maybe the poise and maturity he showed in Iowa City in his lone drive has them frightened for some reason. Maybe Quinn isn't "special". No telling but my feeling after the FAU game is that unless Mason is forced off the field due to injury or his helmet coming off, Shanbour will not see the field unless with the field goal team....period.

You could be right. Quinn should have played. That's how Fine got his start last season. He came in during clean-up duty for Morris against SMU and started the rest of the season until he was hurt against WKU. For some reason, I think Shanbour is a better player and that SL really doesn't want to play him because he didn't recruit him.

[VideoEagle]

You pull a starter to give more experience to the backup when you have a very experienced started. We don't have a very experience starter. When you have a starter without a lot of experience you give him every snap you can. Fine is a true sophomore which means even if he started every game his freshman year he still could use more game time. And he didn't start every game last year. He is still making mistakes and misreads that experience will help fix. If he's a Senior or RS Junior, you pull him, but not when he still needs to see things from the actual field in order to learn. 

I understand the backup QB is the fan favorite on every team, but no the coaches weren't "padding" anyone's stats. They were letting Fine learn and gain experience in a tough situation. It wasn't going to pay of in this game, but it will in a year or two. That's what happens when you have a young starting QB. 

[UNTLifer]

6 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

You pull a starter to give more experience to the backup when you have a very experienced started. We don't have a very experience starter. When you have a starter without a lot of experience you give him every snap you can. Fine is a true sophomore which means even if he started every game his freshman year he still could use more game time. And he didn't start every game last year. He is still making mistakes and misreads that experience will help fix. If he's a Senior or RS Junior, you pull him, but not when he still needs to see things from the actual field in order to learn. 

I understand the backup QB is the fan favorite on every team, but no the coaches weren't "padding" anyone's stats. They were letting Fine learn and gain experience in a tough situation. It wasn't going to pay of in this game, but it will in a year or two. That's what happens when you have a young starting QB. 

SShhh.  That narrative doesn't fit the conspiracy that SL doesn't want Shanbour because he didn't recruit him even through Mac recruits are all over the field at other positions...like Wilson.

[Venson]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

SShhh.  That narrative doesn't fit the conspiracy that SL doesn't want Shanbour because he didn't recruit him even through Mac recruits are all over the field at other positions...like Wilson.

Maybe I am wrong about that, but every time I saw Fine and Shanbour play during the spring, I was convinced Shanbour played better. I was only saying give him a shot in garbage time and see what he can do in a game situation. I mean Tom Brady is probably the best QB to ever play the game, but he may not have ever gotten a chance to prove it if Bledsoe had not gone down with an injury. If Tony Romo wasn't hurt last year, he may not be retired this year after Dak proved he could play. 

6 hours ago, VideoEagle said:

You pull a starter to give more experience to the backup when you have a very experienced started. We don't have a very experience starter. When you have a starter without a lot of experience you give him every snap you can. Fine is a true sophomore which means even if he started every game his freshman year he still could use more game time. And he didn't start every game last year. He is still making mistakes and misreads that experience will help fix. If he's a Senior or RS Junior, you pull him, but not when he still needs to see things from the actual field in order to learn. 

I understand the backup QB is the fan favorite on every team, but no the coaches weren't "padding" anyone's stats. They were letting Fine learn and gain experience in a tough situation. It wasn't going to pay of in this game, but it will in a year or two. That's what happens when you have a young starting QB. 

I can see your point. I wasn't thinking that the backup is always the fan favorite. If that was the case, I would have been calling for Landry Jones of the Steelers 3 weeks ago after Ben's 5 INTs. However, I know Jones sucks and the Steelers should rid themselves of him. I just wanted to see Shanbour because he played really well in the spring and SL said himself that it was diificult decision to decide. Maybe he went with Fine to get him more experience since he will be here long term. Of course anything we say on this board is just pure speculation unless we are mind readers.

[PlummMeanGreen]

J. Wilson has to get the ball more for us to win these last few games--even ODU.

He didn't really get the ball enough vs utsa.

GMG!

[Venson]

9 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

J. Wilson has to get the ball more for us to win these last few games--even ODU.

He didn't really get the ball enough vs utsa.

GMG!

I agree. When he touches the ball on 1st and 2nd down, he usually gets 5 or more yards. He gets stuffed on obvious running downs. If I was a coach and a player was getting 5 yards on first and second down, I would give it to him every time until they proved they could stop it. Maybe that's why I am not coaching and I am commenting on a message board, but that seems logical to me.

[forevereagle]

1 hour ago, Venson said:

When he touches the ball on 1st and 2nd down, he usually gets 5 or more yards.

You have me interested...

1 hour ago, Venson said:

He gets stuffed on obvious running downs.

But now I am just confused...

[VideoEagle]

3 hours ago, Venson said:

Maybe I am wrong about that, but every time I saw Fine and Shanbour play during the spring, I was convinced Shanbour played better. I was only saying give him a shot in garbage time and see what he can do in a game situation. I mean Tom Brady is probably the best QB to ever play the game, but he may not have ever gotten a chance to prove it if Bledsoe had not gone down with an injury. If Tony Romo wasn't hurt last year, he may not be retired this year after Dak proved he could play. 

I can see your point. I wasn't thinking that the backup is always the fan favorite. If that was the case, I would have been calling for Landry Jones of the Steelers 3 weeks ago after Ben's 5 INTs. However, I know Jones sucks and the Steelers should rid themselves of him. I just wanted to see Shanbour because he played really well in the spring and SL said himself that it was diificult decision to decide. Maybe he went with Fine to get him more experience since he will be here long term. Of course anything we say on this board is just pure speculation unless we are mind readers.

 

In both of the examples you gave, the starter was injured and thus the backup HAD to come in. More importantly, in both of those cases you have very experienced starters being backup up by far less experience - rookie in Prescott's case - quarterbacks. The reason to leave an INEXPERIENCED QB in is to allow them to gain experience. If you starter is experienced and the backup is, THEN you pull the starter in garbage time. 

On your second point, I quick Google search finds a full page of people saying Landry Jones should have replaced Ben. It's so common as to be cliche that the backup QB is the most popular player on anytime after the starter has a bad game. 

I am NOT saying never to pull the starter at the end of a game, rather there are very sound, football strategy reasons to sometimes leave an inexperienced starter in. 

[diehardUNTfan]

On 10/22/2017 at 7:02 AM, AustinFromUNT said:

I think they kept Fine in for the game experience. He is a true sophomore. Every play he is in is more film he gets to watch of himself. He’s our future QB (Next 2 years at least), so you should at least salvage something out of this game.

Risk>Reward