DRC: Littrell, Kiffin to met in clash of elite offensive minds

Ben Gooding · October 20, 2017

1 minute ago, Cerebus said:

You're moving the goalposts. Your original argument was that my viewpoint was 100% speculation, but that in contrast yours was not. The argument that both our viewpoints were speculation is in fact what I was arguing.

So, do you agree with that? Or are you still arguing that your viewpoint is not speculation. In that case, go ahead and cite your evidence. I'm not 100% sure what is the preferred citation methodology for internet arguments, so I'm going to suggest MLA.

Haha. MLA it is

I guess you didn't fully comprehend my last post, being pulled from the same peer review.

For the sake of argument, I said you MAY be right. But the difference in our speculation(s), is I'm not saying ever. You bring more conviction to your statement in an attempt to almost pass it off as factual. When in fact, it's speculation. I was never basing it off anything except for, never say never. THOUGH, you may be right. But so may I.

Cerebus · October 20, 2017

1 minute ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

The Voertman estate just gave the school $10M

I know that. I also know our endowment is about $1.2B behind TCU. So if we could just another 120 donations of that size we'll catch right up.

TIgreen01 · October 20, 2017

16 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

you do realize that we are having the best fund raising year in history University wide.... I heard NS at the Collin County Alumni event on Weds. night

Go take a look at the AD budgets at the two schools. Really, look at just UNT, then find a single P5 conference that we're within $20 million of.

It's great that UNT is having a great fundraising year. My point is that unless our donors are able to pour another $15-20 million into the football program alone, we're not even competitive with a single P5. Any one of them could double his pay, and his staff's pay without batting an eye. When GP was 2-3 years in at TCU, they were paying him and his staff a salary that was close enough to the P5s that it wasn't a slam dunk to leave for the bigger job. Also, the playoff has completely screwed the G5. No G5 will EVER get into a 4 team playoff. Back in the BCS days, making one of the big 4 games wasn't impossible. GP and Chris Petersen (Boise) made their names crashing the BCS party every other year.

Until they expand the playoff, the G5s really have almost nothing to play for, impo....at least not nearly as much as we did before it. Once the playoff formed, TCU had moved into the Big12, but Boise hadn't. Petersen then left for Washington, where he had a chance to play for something.

Edited October 20, 2017 by TIgreen01

TheColonyEagle · October 20, 2017

This is my 20th year to follow the program. I've never seen a HC leave that wasn't fired.

Cerebus · October 20, 2017

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

For the sake of argument, I said you MAY be right. But the difference in our speculation(s), is I'm not saying ever. You bring more conviction to your statement in an attempt to almost pass it off as factual. When in fact, it's speculation. I was never basing it off anything except for, never say never. THOUGH, you may be right. But so may I.

That wasn't your original argument. Again, your argument was that my guess was 100% speculation, and your argument was not based on speculation. You now seem to be saying your guess was also speculation. In which case we have nothing to argue about.

Ben Gooding · October 20, 2017

Just now, Cerebus said:

That wasn't your original argument. Again, your argument was that my guess was 100% speculation, and your argument was not based on speculation. You now seem to be saying your guess was also speculation. In which case we have nothing to argue about.

It was the sentence I highlighted in my original response. The sentence where 'never' was used. Now if you would've started that sentence with, "In my opinion" or "I believe" then I would've skimmed right over your original post. But you used never, and it caught my attention.

So I will argue what I was basing my argument on.

MeanGreenTexan · October 20, 2017

Here's some evidence that a G5 won't ever move up to join the P5 ever again:
The 2016 Houston Cougars athletic programs are all humming.
They have a deep-pocketed donor in Fertitta.
Their football team would smash most Big12 programs.
Big12 announces they'd be open to expansion. Houston fans are entirely confident they're getting in, because, well, look at TCU!
Instead, they were told to kick expensive rocks.
@Cerebus is right, the landscape has changed since 2011.

Ben Gooding · October 20, 2017

11 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Here's some evidence that a G5 won't ever move up to join the P5 ever again:
The 2016 Houston Cougars athletic programs are all humming.
They have a deep-pocketed donor in Fertitta.
Their football team would smash most Big12 programs.
Big12 announces they'd be open to expansion. Houston fans are entirely confident they're getting in, because, well, look at TCU!
Instead, they were told to kick expensive rocks.
@Cerebus is right, the landscape has changed since 2011.

That's circumstantial. It's a dying conference that's trying to keep it's recruiting prestige as well as it's coffers intact for as long as possible (See: 2023). They knew they were getting ready to soon announce a conference championship game for an additional $20M and didn't want to share the revenue. And though Houston may have gotten snubbed, rightfully or not, it may have been just as much or more about finding a suitable 12th member to join Houston in the realignment.

And there have been many jealous old big12 geezers and suits for that matter that still haven't been able to get over the addition of TCU. EX: Barry Switzer. He has been adamant about what a mistake it was to allow TCU in just to take over the DFW recruiting with the stamp of the Big12 approval.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Ben Gooding

MeanGreenTexan · October 20, 2017

10 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

That's circumstantial. It's a dying conference that's trying to keep it's recruiting prestige as well as it's coffers intact for as long as possible (See: 2023). They knew they were getting ready to soon announce a conference championship game for an additional $20M and didn't want to share the revenue. And though Houston may have gotten snubbed, rightfully or not, it may have been just as much or more about finding a suitable 12th member to join Houston in the realignment.

And there have been many jealous old big12 geezers and suits for that matter that still haven't been able to get over the addition of TCU. EX: Barry Switzer. He has been adamant about what a mistake it was to take over the DFW recruiting with the stamp of the Big12 approval.

I don't see any other conferences openly saying they're looking into expansion. And I believe you may see the picture since you referenced conferences trying to make/keep money (what it's all about). Maybe you're just arguing out of hope/desire for UNT... I just don't see it. You're also correct about it being a dying conference... which is why UNT needs to put ourselves in an attractive position so when TCU/Baylor/KSSt/IASt are left without homes, and a new conference is put together, we might be in a place to warrant a place at THAT table.

Edited October 20, 2017 by MeanGreenTexan

Ben Gooding · October 20, 2017

37 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't see any other conferences openly saying they're looking into expansion. And I believe you may see the picture since you referenced conferences trying to make/keep money (what it's all about). Maybe you're just arguing out of hope/desire for UNT... I just don't see it. You're also correct about it being a dying conference... which is why UNT needs to put ourselves in an attractive position so when TCU/Baylor/KSSt/IASt are left without homes, and a new conference is put together, we might be in a place to warrant a place at THAT table.

That was a part of my initial point.

MeanGreenTexan · October 20, 2017

8 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

That was a part of my initial point.

Yeah. But that won't be another P5. It would just be a top-tier G6... or whatever our level of football will be called by that time.

Ben Gooding · October 20, 2017

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Yeah. But that won't be another P5. It would just be a top-tier G6... or whatever our level of football will be called by that time.

That was also a part of my initial point. @Cerebus was just venting why he didn't make my ban 2 months.

MeanGreenTexan · October 20, 2017

3 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

That was also a part of my initial point. @Cerebus was just venting why he didn't make my ban 2 months.

OK. I guess I'm confused as to what the argument is about then if you're in agreement that:
1. No P5s are extending any invites to anyone
&
2. Once the Big12 collapses, there will only be more G5/G6 schools instead of more schools joining P5/P4.

Ben Gooding · October 20, 2017

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

OK. I guess I'm confused as to what the argument is about then if you're in agreement that:
1. No P5s are extending any invites to anyone
&
2. Once the Big12 collapses, there will only be more G5/G6 schools instead of more schools joining P5/P4.

Image result for Im done gif