[NT Daily] Opinion: Some students find the Mean Green Brigade lacking

aztecskin · October 11, 2017

4 hours ago, jbb123 said:

Hi everyone,

GB alum here. I'm a longtime lurker of this forum and I made an account just to respond to the tomfoolery that's unfolded over the last day.

Anyone who chastises kids who give up their time, energy, and money towards supporting UNT athletics through the veil of an Internet forum should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps many of the GB members do much more to support UNT athletics than some of the armchair band directors on this forum.

The Green Brigade is certainly not the Longhorn band or the OSU band just as the football team is not UT or OSU. Their traditions are not our traditions. What the Green Brigade does have, however, is a well-earned international reputation for excellence in showmanship and musicianship—more than that could be said for many programs at UNT.

I'm disappointed to see so many entitled responses from laymen fans who think that the Green Brigade should sacrifice curricular efforts in order to satisfy Jim Bob's thirst for Pat Boone. If you want to treat the Green Brigade like they're obligated to provide you a service, make yourself a paying customer with a hefty donation, as I'm sure many of you can afford to make, to the College of Music. Otherwise, treat these kids as if they're giving their best efforts week in and week out for you.

Thank a Green Brigade member when you see them on Saturday—they do more for the University than you do.

P.S. I'm looking forward to the "Wear your G.D. uniform" banner that'll be flying over campus on Sunday afternoon.

Eh we don't hand out Good Job, Good Effort shirts here. That would be your grandparents' department.

I certainly don't appreciate the weight of your argument being "Other UNT Programs are sh&& so appreciate the relative goodness!"

Best efforts, week in and week out -- I think the majority of the replies here were aimed at the staff and the direction and not necessarily at the students. A hit dog will holler tho.

Thank a GB member -- gtho with that nonsense.

Also, wear your uniform.

greenminer · October 11, 2017

I don't know if this still holds true, but when I was a member in 1999/2001, all those hours during the fall (class time + rehearsals + game day routine) were rewarded with 1.0 credit hour.

It never really bothered me, but I could tell it rubbed a vocal minority the wrong way who wanted that 3.0+ to weigh heavier into their GPA.

untjim1995 · October 11, 2017

4 hours ago, jbb123 said:

Hi everyone,

GB alum here. I'm a longtime lurker of this forum and I made an account just to respond to the tomfoolery that's unfolded over the last day.

Anyone who chastises kids who give up their time, energy, and money towards supporting UNT athletics through the veil of an Internet forum should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps many of the GB members do much more to support UNT athletics than some of the armchair band directors on this forum.

The Green Brigade is certainly not the Longhorn band or the OSU band just as the football team is not UT or OSU. Their traditions are not our traditions. What the Green Brigade does have, however, is a well-earned international reputation for excellence in showmanship and musicianship—more than that could be said for many programs at UNT.

I'm disappointed to see so many entitled responses from laymen fans who think that the Green Brigade should sacrifice curricular efforts in order to satisfy Jim Bob's thirst for Pat Boone. If you want to treat the Green Brigade like they're obligated to provide you a service, make yourself a paying customer with a hefty donation, as I'm sure many of you can afford to make, to the College of Music. Otherwise, treat these kids as if they're giving their best efforts week in and week out for you.

Thank a Green Brigade member when you see them on Saturday—they do more for the University than you do.

P.S. I'm looking forward to the "Wear your G.D. uniform" banner that'll be flying over campus on Sunday afternoon.

This right here is the reason we are what we are...a music school. Read the disdain this poster has for your opinion...the fake appreciation for sports here—we get it, you and your ilk think that the football game is what surrounds halftime and your performances, not the other way around.

And here’s the worst part for guys like me who actually like sports at the college level and could care less about watching a band march...you have waaaayyyy more UNT students, alumni, faculty, administrators, and the local Dentonites that agree with you and loathe me.

Congratulations, I guess....

KingDL1 · October 11, 2017

5 hours ago, jbb123 said:

Hi everyone,

GB alum here. I'm a longtime lurker of this forum and I made an account just to respond to the tomfoolery that's unfolded over the last day.

Anyone who chastises kids who give up their time, energy, and money towards supporting UNT athletics through the veil of an Internet forum should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps many of the GB members do much more to support UNT athletics than some of the armchair band directors on this forum.

The Green Brigade is certainly not the Longhorn band or the OSU band just as the football team is not UT or OSU. Their traditions are not our traditions. What the Green Brigade does have, however, is a well-earned international reputation for excellence in showmanship and musicianship—more than that could be said for many programs at UNT.

I'm disappointed to see so many entitled responses from laymen fans who think that the Green Brigade should sacrifice curricular efforts in order to satisfy Jim Bob's thirst for Pat Boone. If you want to treat the Green Brigade like they're obligated to provide you a service, make yourself a paying customer with a hefty donation, as I'm sure many of you can afford to make, to the College of Music. Otherwise, treat these kids as if they're giving their best efforts week in and week out for you.

Thank a Green Brigade member when you see them on Saturday—they do more for the University than you do.

P.S. I'm looking forward to the "Wear your G.D. uniform" banner that'll be flying over campus on Sunday afternoon.

UNTLifer · October 11, 2017

6 hours ago, jbb123 said:

Hi everyone,

GB alum here. I'm a longtime lurker of this forum and I made an account just to respond to the tomfoolery that's unfolded over the last day.

Anyone who chastises kids who give up their time, energy, and money towards supporting UNT athletics through the veil of an Internet forum should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps many of the GB members do much more to support UNT athletics than some of the armchair band directors on this forum.

The Green Brigade is certainly not the Longhorn band or the OSU band just as the football team is not UT or OSU. Their traditions are not our traditions. What the Green Brigade does have, however, is a well-earned international reputation for excellence in showmanship and musicianship—more than that could be said for many programs at UNT.

I'm disappointed to see so many entitled responses from laymen fans who think that the Green Brigade should sacrifice curricular efforts in order to satisfy Jim Bob's thirst for Pat Boone. If you want to treat the Green Brigade like they're obligated to provide you a service, make yourself a paying customer with a hefty donation, as I'm sure many of you can afford to make, to the College of Music. Otherwise, treat these kids as if they're giving their best efforts week in and week out for you.

Thank a Green Brigade member when you see them on Saturday—they do more for the University than you do.

P.S. I'm looking forward to the "Wear your G.D. uniform" banner that'll be flying over campus on Sunday afternoon.

I present Exhibit A as to the attitude that is wrong around here from too many.

Uniforms: Here's a question. Why are we the only school that doesn't wear their uniform to the game? Why do we look like the world's biggest Glee Club?

Alumni Giving comments: Can I have some of what you are drinking?

Last, your attitude isn't winning many over.

Got5onIt · October 11, 2017

I said it earlier and I’ll say it again. Wear your GD uniform.

DeepGreen · October 11, 2017

Wish we had an all volunteer marching band.

ps: Dump the attitude GB person!

Stix · October 11, 2017

On 10/9/2017 at 10:21 PM, SilverEagle said:

The Band's slide started when Dr. Winslow took over and dumbed down the fight song, and took out the traditional fanfare that the band always played. Since then the best addition to the band's presentation was the competitive drum line. And that was taken away in recent years when the top group that competes in national competition stopped performing with the marching band. What you see is a good drum line.....but not the best one. The Band, through energy, and showmanship, and school centered traditional tunes is supposed to get the crowd's energy up and into the game........they do none of the above. Their entrance/pre-game is (at best) perfunctory. They show up to amuse themselves and their family and friends. That's it.

Oh, and they got bigger and more unwieldy.

@SilverEagle, you know we agree in general that the band needs to be more integrated into the game experience. But as I was a band member during the Winslow years, I can't agree that he started a "slide". He changed the band from a traditional style to a Drum Corps style, both marching-wise and music-wise, so therefore it inherently was going to make some people unhappy. He came from UCLA - what is their band like, then and now?

I can't let what I have bolded stand any longer. At the Green Brigade reunion last year, I asked Shaun Schietroma, about this. He was member of the drum line in the early 90s (or maybe even late 80s), and is the son of Ron Schietroma who was professor and head of the NT school of music percussion department since the early 1980s when I was a student, until he retired. What he told me is that there was ONE year where the drum line was separated, with an "A" line that went on a tour, and competed at the Percussive Arts Society convention in California, and a "B" line that performed at games. Other than that one year, there has only been one drum line.

And, from my experience at the reunion, I can tell you that the NT drum lines in this day and age are just light years ahead of where the drum lines of my playing days were. These guys are just incredible.

So don't stop criticising what you see wrong with the Green Brigade, but that claim is not valid.

For the record, I LOVE "Fly like an Eagle", but not the way it has devolved to how the Green Brigade currently plays it. They don't play the entire song - it's just playing two riffs, stopping, and then awkwardly starting again. And they play it without any soul. Played in full, it could possibly be the best choice for replacing "Hey Baby" after the 3rd quarter - including singing a verse.

Google - Fly Like An Eagle lyrics

THOR · October 11, 2017

9 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Do y'all like the basketball band?

i think that may be the kind of entertainment y'all are wanting... but the b-ball band is voluntary, while the GB is an actual class. Maybe think of it that way instead of them being there solely for your entertainment.

Also, this:

Also, @jbb123, that entrance is not the best way to open up any kind of dialogue/understanding.

that was a paid band, not much, but paid when i was there 95-97

UNTFan23 · October 11, 2017

8 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

This right here is the reason we are what we are...a music school. Read the disdain this poster has for your opinion...the fake appreciation for sports here—we get it, you and your ilk think that the football game is what surrounds halftime and your performances, not the other way around.

And here’s the worst part for guys like me who actually like sports at the college level and could care less about watching a band march...you have waaaayyyy more UNT students, alumni, faculty, administrators, and the local Dentonites that agree with you and loathe me.

Congratulations, I guess....

North Texas is far, far from just a music school. Tour the new Business Leadership Building or the Engineering school campus and you'd see the university is pouring resources into other programs than just Music and the Arts. It's also just part of the reason the College of Arts and Science was split into two separate schools (School of Arts & School of Science).

I get that perception is reality but you are feeding into that perception.

Ryan Munthe · October 11, 2017

13 hours ago, jbb123 said:

Hi everyone,

GB alum here. I'm a longtime lurker of this forum and I made an account just to respond to the tomfoolery that's unfolded over the last day.

Anyone who chastises kids who give up their time, energy, and money towards supporting UNT athletics through the veil of an Internet forum should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps many of the GB members do much more to support UNT athletics than some of the armchair band directors on this forum.

The Green Brigade is certainly not the Longhorn band or the OSU band just as the football team is not UT or OSU. Their traditions are not our traditions. What the Green Brigade does have, however, is a well-earned international reputation for excellence in showmanship and musicianship—more than that could be said for many programs at UNT.

I'm disappointed to see so many entitled responses from laymen fans who think that the Green Brigade should sacrifice curricular efforts in order to satisfy Jim Bob's thirst for Pat Boone. If you want to treat the Green Brigade like they're obligated to provide you a service, make yourself a paying customer with a hefty donation, as I'm sure many of you can afford to make, to the College of Music. Otherwise, treat these kids as if they're giving their best efforts week in and week out for you.

Thank a Green Brigade member when you see them on Saturday—they do more for the University than you do.

P.S. I'm looking forward to the "Wear your G.D. uniform" banner that'll be flying over campus on Sunday afternoon.

Thanks for coming to the Stars game!

Wear your freaking uniform.

If my instrument of choice going into college wasn’t a violin I would’ve wanted to be in the GB...and damn sure would’ve wanted to wear my damn uniform...😩

SilverEagle · October 11, 2017

StixStix

Thanks for the correction. Yes, a new director always brings about new marching styles....unless of course your the Aggie Band. I didn't object to the style of marching that Winslow brought about, just his "relaxed" attitude regarding the role of the band at football games. I haven't seen the UCLA Band since they performed at the Arkansas game more than two decades ago. Very Rice-like. I don't like the Rice band, but what they do fits in better with their resources and their personality.

So the drum line today is better than the days of "across the heartland" and "the 747"?

I'm going to respectfully disagree.

Cerebus · October 11, 2017

15 hours ago, jbb123 said:

Thank a Green Brigade member when you see them on Saturday—they do more for the University than you do.

LOL, no. There are posters on here who have donated millions. Not just to athletics, but to the University as a whole.

Now as far as your comments that the band is a credit course, and that the director is teaching a class to prepare people for their career. I think that is a valid point. I also know that our previous AD and previous band director did not always see eye to eye, that may have left a lingering bad taste in both sides mouth. Hopefully The Wren™ can work to build a better relationship.

MeanGreen17 · October 11, 2017

2 hours ago, Ryan Munthe said:

Thanks for coming to the Stars game!

Wear your freaking uniform.

If my instrument of choice going into college wasn’t a violin I would’ve wanted to be in the GB...and damn sure would’ve wanted to wear my damn uniform...😩

I can tell you the vast majority of the band would love to wear their uniform to all the games and pretty much everyone in the band hates how the summer band uniform looks. It’s not their decision.

PS: would it hurt to actually act like civil people every once and awhile? Some of y’all need to calm down.

Edited October 11, 2017 by MeanGreen17

Cerebus · October 11, 2017

16 minutes ago, MeanGreen17 said:

PS: would it hurt to actually act like civil people every once and awhile? Some of y’all need to calm down.

Are you addressing GreenBacker? Because if you join a college football fan forum and immediately start throwing hay makers, present a holier than thou attitude, question the intelligence of the posters, and top it off call yourself a better fan than everyone else... what do you expect?

Truthfully, I have been pleasantly surprised with the lack of invective hurled back.

UNT Five&Dime · October 11, 2017

You all act like the uniforms they don't wear look good.

jbb123 · October 11, 2017

I was more than a little pissed when I wrote my response yesterday. My bad for crossing the line. I appreciate civil discourse as much as the next person, but I cannot defend what I interpreted as several posters involving kids in their criticisms.

To say that the annual GB bashing threads are frustrating is an understatement. Anyone who has worked tirelessly to support the university should not be berated online. While there is always room for constructive criticism, there are better outlets to influence effective change. At the same time, the director's discretion as a longtime music educator and tenured professor needs to be trusted.

Many people have brought up great points about the structure of the GB and how it yields the current results. Many other school's athletics programs offer their marching members significant scholarships (GB kids pay to be there), and are comprised mostly of volunteers. The Green Brigade is a marching band, and it is apparent that several steps need to be taken by athletics to move it in the direction that you want.

My general longtime perception is that the GB is unappreciated and that leaves me torn as an alum and an athletics supporter. Some of the kids read these posts, and I know for a fact that they don't generally feel supported by the Mean Green faithful.

Seriously, please thank a kid when you see them on Saturday. Knowing that you appreciate what they do, even though you may not care for it, will do more for them than you might expect.

Christopher Walker · October 11, 2017

22 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

I could never imagine the NT Daily pulling an article that was negative about athletics, but maybe they have...then again, the music folks are protecting their baby here and it is the primary window to the university, so they have the protected status that athletics has at most every other university...

There is no protected status - that's invalid. If anything, the College of Music has maintained its reputation and high-level of performance almost in spite of every compromise imaginable, whether it be resources, facilities, et al. This was hammered home by a facilities+acoustics/financial audit we received last year. It's actually only recently where donations and grants have started to rise across the university overall that we have seen any boosting to our own resources.

14 hours ago, GreenBacker said:

The biggest difference I see at UNT as compared to the big schools is that for the longest time UNT has been a school with a strong music program and poor athletics. We have a high percentage of music majors in the band because they are paying tuition for a class that is required for them to become music educators. Yes, many of them are great supporters of the football team, and throughout the years have been some of the only students left on that side of the stadium at the end of games. However, most are there to be prepared for their career teaching music in Texas.

The director is leading the marching band in addition to numerous duties in the college of music. I am not aware of the breakdown of his salary, but I would imagine most of it is coming from the college of music and not the athletic department. If we want a football band, and not a marching band, that can happen over time with several years of winning and lots of $$$ from the athletic department. Winning will attract more non music majors and the athletics department will make more money. Big time athletic departments that get more of a say in what the marching band does are helping to pay each kid in the marching band a stipend into the thousands, plus footing a lot of the bill for the athletic band directors salary.

I too wish we were in uniforms, and hope to continue to create new traditions through the green brigade. I just think it’s hard to call out the directors for teaching a class (it is a class) the way they feel will prepare their students best for their profession. The marching band students are the ones footing the bill here and yet often times on this board are treated as if they should have the same commitment to football as the players who are being provided a football scholarship worth thousands of dollars. I think we can all agree they are great musicians just as we can agree there are things they can do better to improve the gameday atmosphere. We just have to grow to a point where we can put our money where our mouth is.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Christopher Walker

GreenBacker · October 11, 2017

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

Are you addressing GreenBacker? Because if you join a college football fan forum and immediately start throwing hay makers, present a holier than thou attitude, question the intelligence of the posters, and top it off call yourself a better fan than everyone else... what do you expect?

Truthfully, I have been pleasantly surprised with the lack of invective hurled back.

You mean jbb123 who started the thread?

Cerebus · October 11, 2017

1 hour ago, GreenBacker said:

You mean jbb123 who started the thread?

Yes, my bad. I apologize.

1 hour ago, jbb123 said:

My general longtime perception is that the GB is unappreciated and that leaves me torn as an alum and an athletics supporter. Some of the kids read these posts, and I know for a fact that they don't generally feel supported by the Mean Green faithful.

You yourself said the primary concern of the director was to prepare the students for their work as music educators, not to create a great experience for the football fans. That is a totally valid way for him to approach this. You just then shouldn't be surprised when the football fans can tell the director is more concerned with other things that making it a great experience for the crowd.

I am sorry but the crowd is going to appreciate that he is a doing a good job getting you prepared to teach. No more than they are going to appreciate that a chemistry lab is doing a great job getting people ready for jobs in chemistry.

1 hour ago, jbb123 said:

Seriously, please thank a kid when you see them on Saturday.

Just to clarify I have never seen anyone rip on a band member. Criticism is focused on the band director. He is the one that decides what you where, what you play, when you play it, what your performance is like.

Fans can tell the members are great musicians, but if the band itself isn't what they want, they can criticize it. Some of the strongest criticism comes from former members.

UNTLifer · October 11, 2017

2 hours ago, jbb123 said:

I was more than a little pissed when I wrote my response yesterday. My bad for crossing the line. I appreciate civil discourse as much as the next person, but I cannot defend what I interpreted as several posters involving kids in their criticisms.

To say that the annual GB bashing threads are frustrating is an understatement. Anyone who has worked tirelessly to support the university should not be berated online. While there is always room for constructive criticism, there are better outlets to influence effective change. At the same time, the director's discretion as a longtime music educator and tenured professor needs to be trusted.

Many people have brought up great points about the structure of the GB and how it yields the current results. Many other school's athletics programs offer their marching members significant scholarships (GB kids pay to be there), and are comprised mostly of volunteers. The Green Brigade is a marching band, and it is apparent that several steps need to be taken by athletics to move it in the direction that you want.

My general longtime perception is that the GB is unappreciated and that leaves me torn as an alum and an athletics supporter. Some of the kids read these posts, and I know for a fact that they don't generally feel supported by the Mean Green faithful.

Seriously, please thank a kid when you see them on Saturday. Knowing that you appreciate what they do, even though you may not care for it, will do more for them than you might expect.

1. I have yet to see one thread bashing a student that plays in the GB.

2. A few years ago you would have read threads about how we "never lose halftime, etc..." on here supporting their performances.

3. My problem is the lack of uniforms looks sloppy. For a school with our musical reputation, we should be kicking A and taking names with our band's performances.

4. Many of the tunes played by the band, partial "Fly Like An Eagle," starting and stopping that makes no sense to the listener, "Hey Baby" that has nothing to do with the game, etc... are lost on me and appear, and I emphasize appear, to be self serving.

5. I love the kid's that perform in our band and support their efforts. My criticisms are aimed at the leadership.

jbb123 · October 11, 2017

On 10/10/2017 at 1:00 AM, Got5onIt said:

Music school with a band that looks like they woke up and put on the first clean shirt & shorts for a quick bite to eat at the local McD’s. Don’t forget your ballcap to cover up that messed up hair.

Wear a GD uniform on Saturdays for Christ sakes!!!

On 10/10/2017 at 8:18 AM, MGNation92 said:

I see a lot of butthurt band members on Twitter that took massive offense to this article.

I think they may be a little full of themselves. I was in band for 7 years and it's not THAT hard to learn new stand tunes every week

It's funny because it seems they've been told they're the shit, and judging by their twitter comments, they fully believe it, and fully believe it should not come with ridicule.

Ridiculous. Pull your pampers up, learn your audience, do your job.

On 10/10/2017 at 12:06 PM, KingDL1 said:

The power of a bunch of crybabies.

Looks like we can forever expect such underwhelming performances to continue.

@Cerebus these are the specific posts aimed at kids that I was referring to in my initial response.

As I said earlier, constructive criticism focused at adults is fine. These posts crossed the line.

UNTLifer · October 11, 2017

5 minutes ago, jbb123 said:

@Cerebus these are the specific posts aimed at kids that I was referring to in my initial response.

As I said earlier, constructive criticism focused at adults is fine. These posts crossed the line.

True, but they did put their thoughts out there in public. Don't want responses? Don't speak publicly. They should chalk it up as a lesson learned.

MGNation92 · October 11, 2017

7 minutes ago, jbb123 said:

@Cerebus these are the specific posts aimed at kids that I was referring to in my initial response.

As I said earlier, constructive criticism focused at adults is fine. These posts crossed the line.

I'm glad you took offense. Prove us wrong