If we can't get a 4th and 1...

Harry · September 24, 2017

...in a key point in the game like last night we seriously either need to come up with different play calling or get our asses out on the practice field and start running the goalline drills until we can. I had no problem with the play call but dammit we need to get the job done. I am very happy with the win but that was a key moment in the game that we may face again against a better opponent (ala UTSA or Tech). If they load the box then let Fine call out of it. Need to get that stuff figured out real quick or it is going to come back and bite us! GMG

BTG_Fan1 · September 24, 2017

1 minute ago, Harry said:

...in a key point in the game like last night we seriously either need to come up with different play calling or get our asses out on the practice field and start running the goalline drills until we can. I had no problem with the play call but dammit we need to get the job done. I am very happy with the win but that was a key moment in the game that we may face again against a better opponent (ala UTSA or Tech). If they load the box then let Fine call out of it. Need to get that stuff figured out real quick or it is going to come back and bite us! GMG

It is very worrisome, and it was telling no Wildcat/direct snap to Jeffery either.

What is worrisome is no push from the OL.. I said it in another thread but will leave out the name.. if you can run behind an OL that has 50-60 lbs on the name across from him that is very worrisome.. the OL knows when the snap is coming and they still get pushed back, also the lose of Maiki has likely impacted it with no true FB...

Brining in a 6th OL needs to be considered, and a true power RB like that kid in OK, Lee, that has visited UNT in the past. We need a power back like MB3, TJ Duckett, etc because this is one of the problems with the spread. Inside the 10, the defense doesn't have to cover as much.

BillySee58 · September 24, 2017

For sure. Fine hands off to Wilson leaving the other 9 to block 11 guys crashing the box. Not in our favor

KingDL1 · September 25, 2017

It seems like they were lined up in the shotgun for that fourth and one? If so I hate that.

untjim1995 · September 25, 2017

14 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

It seems like they were lined up in the shotgun for that fourth and one? If so I hate that.

They were. It was a bad decision to go for it there while holding a big lead on your side of the field, then made into a horrible decision by running the play out of shotgun, and then turned into a colossal error when UAB scored as quickly as they did.

But im sure some very knowledgeable and rational posters will tell us differently and that the other team had coached and players, too...

Edited September 25, 2017 by untjim1995

GMG24 · September 25, 2017

Harry hit the nail on the head, I was screaming to check to some variation of quick slant, fade, hot route whatever it is they run. The run had no chance from the start.

12 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

They were. It was a bad decision to go for it there while holding a big lead on your side of the field, then made into a horrible decision by running the play out of shotgun, and then turned into a colossal error when UAB scored as quickly as they did.

But im sure some very knowledgeable and rational posters will tell us differently and that the other team had coached and players, too...

How many times do they practice snapping the ball under center? I can answer that for you 0.

Why don't they practice snapping the ball from under center how dumb!!! Why use valuable practice time for a play you MAY run once or twice a game? Why not be good enough to not put yourself in those situations, and be confident enough in what you do that if you get in that situation you have a play or 4 to be able to run. We should have audibled from the run on that play they literally had 10 dudes in the box. Should have checked and ran a rub type route like they did to us for one of their TD's in the 2nd half.

BTG_Fan1 · September 25, 2017

9 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Harry hit the nail on the head, I was screaming to check to some variation of quick slant, fade, hot route whatever it is they run. The run had no chance from the start.

How many times do they practice snapping the ball under center? I can answer that for you 0.

Why don't they practice snapping the ball from under center how dumb!!! Why use valuable practice time for a play you MAY run once or twice a game? Why not be good enough to not put yourself in those situations, and be confident enough in what you do that if you get in that situation you have a play or 4 to be able to run. We should have audibled from the run on that play they literally had 10 dudes in the box. Should have checked and ran a rub type route like they did to us for one of their TD's in the 2nd half.

I agree they should have changed the play.. Which I do not get, they look over the sideline for plays, you think they could signal in a new play.. My only thought is if they run a quick-slant all the DL has to do is get their arms up and fine wont be able to get it over/through them... Either way (run or pass) if it had failed we would have wondered what coulda been if the other was done.. Just like Seattle in the Superbowl with Lynch.. Do you run him on the 1 or throw it, they threw it and it was an INT...

Also, I was thinking at the end of the game when UAB got the ball, it was with like 1:10 left in the game.. If we had punted it down field it likely would have ate up 1 minute for them to go from where the punt likely ends to where we were stopped..

GMG24 · September 25, 2017

57 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I agree they should have changed the play.. Which I do not get, they look over the sideline for plays, you think they could signal in a new play.. My only thought is if they run a quick-slant all the DL has to do is get their arms up and fine wont be able to get it over/through them... Either way (run or pass) if it had failed we would have wondered what coulda been if the other was done.. Just like Seattle in the Superbowl with Lynch.. Do you run him on the 1 or throw it, they threw it and it was an INT...

Also, I was thinking at the end of the game when UAB got the ball, it was with like 1:10 left in the game.. If we had punted it down field it likely would have ate up 1 minute for them to go from where the punt likely ends to where we were stopped..

If we have Lynch there is no question he's getting the ball. We don't we have a RB who is barely over 200 Lbs I'll take my chance with JG or Kelvin Smith boxing a dude out and getting possession.

GMG24 · September 25, 2017

BTG_Fan1 · September 25, 2017

1 hour ago, GMG24 said:

If we have Lynch there is no question he's getting the ball. We don't we have a RB who is barely over 200 Lbs I'll take my chance with JG or Kelvin Smith boxing a dude out and getting possession.

I totally agree, the only worry is and I would hope GH would be aware of it.. but if it's 4th and 1.. don't run a slant because likely most DL are just going to try and get their hands up with Fine at QB.

GMG24 · September 25, 2017

8 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I totally agree, the only worry is and I would hope GH would be aware of it.. but if it's 4th and 1.. don't run a slant because likely most DL are just going to try and get their hands up with Fine at QB.

Then you have OL punch them in the stomach and they'll drop their hands naturally. Also you don't run the slant to the inside WR where it could get batted down. Pick your favorite outside WR and let it rip.

aztecskin · September 25, 2017

18 hours ago, Harry said:

...in a key point in the game like last night we seriously either need to come up with different play calling or get our asses out on the practice field and start running the goalline drills until we can. I had no problem with the play call but dammit we need to get the job done. I am very happy with the win but that was a key moment in the game that we may face again against a better opponent (ala UTSA or Tech). If they load the box then let Fine call out of it. Need to get that stuff figured out real quick or it is going to come back and bite us! GMG

I would rather us go 4-wide and then run it.

After the bye-week last season we debuted the pistol look v Army. I expect after this week Harrell and company will break out some new stuff. UTSA really turned the game with their short-yardage stops on us last year and there will be a crucial conversion or two that we need to get.

Honestly, when was the last time we converted on 4th and short?

MGNation92 · September 25, 2017

2 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

I would rather us go 4-wide and then run it.

After the bye-week last season we debuted the pistol look v Army. I expect after this week Harrell and company will break out some new stuff. UTSA really turned the game with their short-yardage stops on us last year and there will be a crucial conversion or two that we need to get.

Honestly, when was the last time we converted on 4th and short?

When we put Richard "Big D*ck" Abbe in at FB and handed it to him.

UNTLifer · September 25, 2017

3 hours ago, GMG24 said:

Then you have OL punch them in the stomach and they'll drop their hands naturally. Also you don't run the slant to the inside WR where it could get batted down. Pick your favorite outside WR and let it rip.

That, or roll Fine out with a pass/run option.

keith · September 25, 2017

21 hours ago, Harry said:

...in a key point in the game like last night we seriously either need to come up with different play calling or get our asses out on the practice field and start running the goalline drills until we can. I had no problem with the play call but dammit we need to get the job done. I am very happy with the win but that was a key moment in the game that we may face again against a better opponent (ala UTSA or Tech). If they load the box then let Fine call out of it. Need to get that stuff figured out real quick or it is going to come back and bite us! GMG

If you can't pick up a 3rd and 2 from your own 45, then you probably shouldn't be going for it on 4th and 1 from your own 46.

untjim1995 · September 25, 2017

4 minutes ago, keith said:

If you can't pick up a 3rd and 2 from your own 45, then you probably shouldn't be going for it on 4th and 1 from your own 46.

This.

If you cannot run an offensive play where you need a yard, yet you have to be in shotgun because your center has no idea how to hike the ball to a QB under his butt, you should probably not go for it on your side of the field, either.

Our offensive strategies are so freaking polar opposites over the last 15 years--Dickey passed the ball only when he had to or when we were ahead against SBC teams. Dodge does the full spread offense and cannot get a yard or two when you need it, while piling up great stats out of the red zone. McCarney comes her and reverts to DickeyBall, just a 2.0 version, with a QB that throws the ball downfield very rarely. And now Littrell comes here and his offensive approach is Dodgeball 2.0, just more successful (so far) in getting wins, but again doesn't get us much in terms of yards when you need them because of stupid things like ONLY TAKING A SNAP IN SHOTGUN AT ALL TIMES...

greenminer · September 25, 2017

14 hours ago, GMG24 said:

It's the silliest stance in the history of any debate: "you don't know my craft, so I should be immune from criticism."

On 11/16/2014 at 10:13 AM, Cerebus said:

I am really tired of this argument. Let me explain once again. We are customers, the coaches are contractors we have hired. Now I hire contractors because they have skills I don't have. I don't know how to do major plumbing, but if the plumber I hire does some work that causes the toilet to flush directly out of the shower head, despite the fact I am not a plumber I have every right to complain about the work and fire the contractor.

I don't know how to coach college football, I am helping to pay paying for a contractor to come in to do that. I am very unhappy with the work the contractor has delivered so far.

The sub contractor (MAC) had better figure out how to fix his crew (other coaches/recruiters) or I am going to lose faith in that subcontractor, and start to wonder why the general contractor (RV) doesn't get more blame for hiring so many subpar sub contractors (Dodge, Benford, etc).

Aldo · September 25, 2017

59 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

yet you have to be in shotgun because your center has no idea how to hike the ball to a QB under his butt

That's not how that works

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

you should probably not go for it on your side of the field, either.

Totally legitimate issue that should be more of the focus. Can't get 1 yard against SMU, Iowa, or UAB? Punt that.

UNT 90 Grad · September 26, 2017

16 hours ago, greenminer said:

It's the silliest stance in the history of any debate: "you don't know my craft, so I should be immune from criticism."

Miner detail, but in this case Wilcox isn't saying not to criticize the quality of the work output from the plumber. He's saying you look silly trying to tell the plumber how to go about doing it right. If you knew how to go about doing it right, you wouldn't have needed to hire the plumber for his expertise.

RBP79 · September 26, 2017

4th and 1...our side of the field...opening of 2nd half.....just kick it away.

MeanGreenHoops · September 26, 2017

4 hours ago, RBP79 said:

4th and 1...our side of the field...opening of 2nd half.....just kick it away.

I sure hope Vito asks about this. Also up 16. Weird call and let UAB get back in the game giving them hope.

GrandGreen · September 26, 2017

The go for it on fourth is only being complained about because it didn't work. NT offense was going well and pass defense at that point was not totally exposed. Not sure a bold or bad play call IMO.

Bad pass defense was the only reason this game was close, not a bad play call or any other missteps that NT had.