Another Iowa observation thread

[GrandGreen]

Good:

Iowa game reminds me a lot of Florida game last year, but with a much better offense

Despite lopsided loss, overall this was one of Littrell's best games

Shanbour looked really solid, backup QB will see a lot of action

Linebackers, a big question mark, played very well and are proving to be a plus unit

Pass defense was substantially improved

Defensive line played very well for most of the game

Overall defense got gassed in the second half, still gave up few big plays

DL Young had lb number of tackles, super game

Mohammad is an unexpected force 

Great run by Wilson

Fine continues to grow, one tough player

Nine receivers had receptions

Best offensive pass blocking in recent memory

Bad:

Iowa completely controlled game in second half

Lack of defensive depth was evidence 

NT offense can't score if they are not on the field 

As a P5 program, Iowa was just much deeper 

Another loss in a guarantee game

 

Ugly:

Penalties, this game could have been a lot closer

Many penalties were of the stupid variety

NT discipline has to improve 

Punting, NT should forget about the rugby kicks

 

 

 

 

 

[BTG_Fan1]

Have we heard anything about Darden? He was injured by our own man on that last KR, and had to be helped off?

[UNTLifer]

Agree that we have to give up the stupid rugby kicks.

Disagree on LB's, mainly Garner.  Saw him take bad angles or just get run out of plays.  Must improve.

Would love to hear updates on injuries to Fine, Darden, Wheeler and Johnson.

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

Yeah GARDNER was a NON factor during the game.  McDonald was in on more tackles than he was for sure.

 

Another great showing for my adopted player 

 

Its not a good sign that my adopted player has led the Mean Green in tackles 2 out of the 3 games this year and in the other he was tied for 2nd. Werent we supposed to have another safety end our NFL draft drought??  What is he doing?

 

 

[KRAM1]

20 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Agree that we have to give up the stupid rugby kicks.

Disagree on LB's, mainly Garner.  Saw him take bad angles or just get run out of plays.  Must improve.

Would love to hear updates on injuries to Fine, Darden, Wheeler and Johnson.

Didn't Keena (or one of our punters last season) do pretty well with that rugby style punt in certain situations?  Seems to me, that while it isn't so much a thing of beauty, that it can be quite effective in certain situations.  Is it the style of punt or the execution that seems to be this year's challenge?

[Green Crazy]

5 minutes ago, KRAM1 said:

Didn't Keena (or one of our punters last season) do pretty well with that rugby style punt in certain situations?  Seems to me, that while it isn't so much a thing of beauty, that it can be quite effective in certain situations.  Is it the style of punt or the execution that seems to be this year's challenge?

Keena did use the rugby punt, but he was a far superior punter to Kenworthy.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, KRAM1 said:

Didn't Keena (or one of our punters last season) do pretty well with that rugby style punt in certain situations?  Seems to me, that while it isn't so much a thing of beauty, that it can be quite effective in certain situations.  Is it the style of punt or the execution that seems to be this year's challenge?

Yep.  He did.   But not nearly as much as we're seeing with Kenworthy (about 1/2 the time).   Keena would do it in certain situations to throw off the opposing defense as his rollout allowed his blocking to get downfield... or, he would run for a 1st down.   Kenworthy seems to have a decent leg if he doesn't shank or rugby-kick.

[DT 90]

Reminded me of  K-State '12 and Georgia in '13.  Mean Green can play straight up with the big dogs, just needs better bounces here and there.    

Edited September 19, 2017 by DT 90

[MeanGreenHoops]

We didn't look to over-matched. But, IOWA kept it very vanilla. Kind of like we did against Lamar.

Defense could never get off the field. That is a problem (feature) of Littrell era so far.

Oline played better, but they were rarely (never?) blitzed.

Wilson is special.

The secondary got whipped deep like every game but IOWA overthrew them keeping it close.

Worried about Darden, he is a good player and limped off.

 

 

[UNTLifer]

ALERT: Iowa is a vanilla team.

[meangreenthirteen]

Rugby style kicking is perfect for punters with shitty form. As you saw during one of the only traditional punts (something like 20 yards), our punter completely sucks at traditional punts. Keep with the rugby style, please.

Edited September 18, 2017 by meangreenthirteen

[UNT 90 Grad]

3 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Didn't Keena (or one of our punters last season) do pretty well with that rugby style punt in certain situations?  Seems to me, that while it isn't so much a thing of beauty, that it can be quite effective in certain situations.  Is it the style of punt or the execution that seems to be this year's challenge?

Execution, and not just by the punter.  He has to have good protection back there since he's holding the ball longer (which gives the coverage players more time to get down field).   If this guy gets pressured, watch out for shank city.  

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

ALERT: Iowa is a vanilla team.

They were for this game. I think it was pretty obvious that Ferentz basically told his team to hold the ball and run the clock, that their depth would win the game. And they didn't have to show Penn State or anyone else any new wrinkles they will have for conference play.

[golfingomez]

yeah, i give the defense 5 stars for this game, they are the reason we were in it... and yes, they wore down in the second half, but that's because our offense was hardly able to sustain a drive in the second half (maybe three first downs?) so they were constantly on the field, facing Iowa's fresh 3rd and 4th RB...

I'm a little disappointed we didnt take some more risks offensively in the second half with maybe a trick play or going for it on fourth down.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Know what I've come to hate more than just about anything during the Littrell era?

3rd Downs.

Offensive, Defensive, doesn't matter.   3rd down has proven extremely frustrating over the past season+.

[Censored by Laurie]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Know what I've come to hate more than just about anything during the Littrell era?

3rd Downs.

Offensive, Defensive, doesn't matter.   3rd down has proven extremely frustrating over the past season+.

this more than anything else. it's so mentally deflating on both sides of the ball to do good work on first and second and then piss it away on third. 

Iowa converted on 61% of their third downs...and 80% of their fourth downs. UNT converted 0% on either.

SMU converted 50% of their third downs...and 100% of their fourth downs. UNT converted a combined 39% on third and fourth

hell...get those ratios to 50% on either side and I'll be relatively happy and can live with some aggressive penalties.

I realize that's still a decent opponents conversion rate, but I don't want to go getting too good on third down defensively...means we'll see more punt returns. those make me too nervous.

[GrandGreen]

6 hours ago, meangreenthirteen said:

Rugby style kicking is perfect for punters with shitty form. As you saw during one of the only traditional punts (something like 20 yards), our punter completely sucks at traditional punts. Keep with the rugby style, please.

No, NT's punter is having enough problems with straight on kicks.   I rather see a shanked punk of 20 yards than a blocked rugby kick or a big return.   I am not sure why you think a rugby kick on the run is easier to do than a traditional punt.   It isn't.  

[FirefightnRick]

49 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

   I am not sure why you think a rugby kick on the run is easier to do than a traditional punt.   It isn't.  

Nope.  A traditional, straight-on three step spiral for time and distance is much more difficult. 

 

Rick

[NT93]

1 hour ago, Censored by Laurie said:

this more than anything else. it's so mentally deflating on both sides of the ball to do good work on first and second and then piss it away on third. 

Iowa converted on 61% of their third downs...and 80% of their fourth downs. UNT converted 0% on either.

SMU converted 50% of their third downs...and 100% of their fourth downs. UNT converted a combined 39% on third and fourth

hell...get those ratios to 50% on either side and I'll be relatively happy and can live with some aggressive penalties.

I realize that's still a decent opponents conversion rate, but I don't want to go getting too good on third down defensively...means we'll see more punt returns. those make me too nervous.

I would have sworn SMU converted about 90% on 3rd down.  Maybe they just converted at about that rate in the middle quarters when they scored 30 points. (Joking...sort of)

 

I agree though, the 3rd downs are our biggest enemy right now.  I'm watching the games and I honestly don't even care what the opposition does on 1st and 2nd down because it doesn't matter.  Teams are converting 3rd and short, 3rd and medium, 3rd and long...you name it.  The bright side is that the defense is holding teams to what seems like a lot of 3rd downs, so that's somewhat encouraging. 

[BTG_Fan1]

7 hours ago, golfingomez said:

yeah, i give the defense 5 stars for this game, they are the reason we were in it... and yes, they wore down in the second half, but that's because our offense was hardly able to sustain a drive in the second half (maybe three first downs?) so they were constantly on the field, facing Iowa's fresh 3rd and 4th RB...

I'm a little disappointed we didnt take some more risks offensively in the second half with maybe a trick play or going for it on fourth down.

While I agree the offense didn't help the defense, the defense didn't do much to help them in the 2nd half.. Long, time eating drives are bad for the Air-RAID.. you get out of your rhythm.. 

Both sides need to improve on 3rd down 

[Censored by Laurie]

3 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

No, NT's punter is having enough problems with straight on kicks.   I rather see a shanked punk of 20 yards than a blocked rugby kick or a big return.   I am not sure why you think a rugby kick on the run is easier to do than a traditional punt.   It isn't.  

it's easier when you're drawing a lot of modern punters from soccer backgrounds...also...when have you ever seen a blocked rugby-style punt? that's actually the whole point of the utilization of that technique...it may not be the prettiest, but it's going to have top-spin and it's going to give the punter time and space in almost all circumstances. 

[Censored by Laurie]

4 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

While I agree the offense didn't help the defense, the defense didn't do much to help them in the 2nd half.. Long, time eating drives are bad for the Air-RAID.. you get out of your rhythm.. 

Both sides need to improve on 3rd down 

long time eating drives are bad for anyone. Iowa made a conscious and concerted effort to keep the ball. a big 10 school played as stereotypical big 10 football as possible in the second half because they both knew they could and that they had to. 

Iowa has 12, mostly generic white dude OLs all tipping the scales at 280 or better...and all but 3 of them are from Iowa, in case anyone thought we were losing recruiting battles...they just kept cycling in zone-blocking fatties and wore down our smaller line

[BTG_Fan1]

1 minute ago, Censored by Laurie said:

long time eating drives are bad for anyone. Iowa made a conscious and concerted effort to keep the ball. a big 10 school played as stereotypical big 10 football as possible in the second half because they both knew they could and that they had to. 

Iowa has 12, mostly generic white dude OLs all tipping the scales at 280 or better...and all but 3 of them are from Iowa, in case anyone thought we were losing recruiting battles...they just kept cycling in zone-blocking fatties and wore down our smaller line

I do agree that they wore down but the offense didn't help them.. they both had problems, trying to find out which caused the other is just like the chicken/egg discussion.. they both had an affect on the other 

[Censored by Laurie]

8 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

I do agree that they wore down but the offense didn't help them.. they both had problems, trying to find out which caused the other is just like the chicken/egg discussion.. they both had an affect on the other 

I mean...it's not though. 

if you're simply saying the offense should've executed better in the second half, I guess...ok...I hear you, but it was still a big 10 defense...but at a certain point if Iowa just says lets play keep-ball they have the depth and ability to do that to our front seven...and that war of attrition is basically the definition of big 10 football...when in doubt they'll do it to PSU, OSU and anyone else on their schedule

[GrandGreen]

6 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

it's easier when you're drawing a lot of modern punters from soccer backgrounds...also...when have you ever seen a blocked rugby-style punt? that's actually the whole point of the utilization of that technique...it may not be the prettiest, but it's going to have top-spin and it's going to give the punter time and space in almost all circumstances. 

Have seem more than a few tackled, which is the main problem with rolling out.   Like to see Kenworthy stats, rugby versus standard.  NT's net punting yardage seems much better on straight up kicks.  He has had some very short kicks with both techniques, but generally his non-rugby kicks are not returned.   

It is strange what is picked out of a lot of observations to debate about.