The Truth seems to be in the middle for me

[MeanGreenHoops]

Read through a lot of the posts on here and my thinking is more in the middle (maybe?)

The concerns everyone had at the beginning of the year O-Line and LB play are a clear problem.

The Oline was getting ripped all day. Fine was getting clobbered and we couldn't run at all.

On the flip side when we came after Hicks our LB's did not get to him. He was too comfortable. When he had to move Hicks struggled. Surprising me I thought the D-Line was ok.

Fine has clearly improved from last year. His limitations are clear and teams are still able to take advantage of them by swarming him. But he has at least gotten better. If he had a great oline he could be real good, but that is a long way from where we are.

Special teams are real bad.

We did what typical guy trying to hard to win does and made a lot of silly mistakes that got the game out of hand.

SMU has a clear talent advantage across the board. Easiest way to think about it, who on our team would start for their team. Can't think of too many that I would say that about.

After two games we look better than last year, but it will take time to cover up the weak spots. However, those weak spots keep this team from being much more than a middle of the pack CUSA team.

Too many people on here make excuses for everything. But I guess that is balanced out by some who say everything is awful.

We are pretty much what we've always been. Slightly below something good and frustrating to cheer for.

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

4 minutes ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

Read through a lot of the posts on here and my thinking is more in the middle (maybe?)

The concerns everyone had at the beginning of the year O-Line and LB play are a clear problem.

The Oline was getting ripped all day. Fine was getting clobbered and we couldn't run at all.

On the flip side when we came after Hicks our LB's did not get to him. He was too comfortable. When he had to move Hicks struggled. Surprising me I thought the D-Line was ok.

Fine has clearly improved from last year. His limitations are clear and teams are still able to take advantage of them by swarming him. But he has at least gotten better. If he had a great oline he could be real good, but that is a long way from where we are.

Special teams are real bad.

We did what typical guy trying to hard to win does and made a lot of silly mistakes that got the game out of hand.

SMU has a clear talent advantage across the board. Easiest way to think about it, who on our team would start for their team. Can't think of too many that I would say that about.

After two games we look better than last year, but it will take time to cover up the weak spots. However, those weak spots keep this team from being much more than a middle of the pack CUSA team.

Too many people on here make excuses for everything. But I guess that is balanced out by some who say everything is awful.

We are pretty much what we've always been. Slightly below something good and frustrating to cheer for.

 

I don't agree with either of the bolded statements.  
Hicks/Peavy were sacked quite a bit.  Lots of pressure in their backfield, and Xavier Jones (who is a heckuva RB) was basically shut down due to the run D.   LB play overall, is fine.

We got beat by Courtland Sutton.  That's it. Plain & simple.   The rest of their team was very beatable.

[MeanGreenHoops]

21 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't agree with either of the bolded statements.  
Hicks/Peavy were sacked quite a bit.  Lots of pressure in their backfield, and Xavier Jones (who is a heckuva RB) was basically shut down due to the run D.   LB play overall, is fine.

We got beat by Courtland Sutton.  That's it. Plain & simple.   The rest of their team was very beatable.

Maybe it was just my take on the game but I felt like we didn't get home on blitzes nearly as well as SMU.

As for talent, do you think we have guys that would be beating out their starters? I don't think the talent gap is huge like OU better or anything, I just think they are slightly better at almost every position. Except for Sutton, he is OU level talent. But I don't think he beat us by himself (great thanks for making me sound crazy because he had 4 TD's).

Edit: TO further my point about the LB's, SMU had no problem converting 3rd downs. That comes down to not getting home by the front 5-6.

Edited September 11, 2017 by MeanGreenHoops
Adding a point

[TreeFiddy]

Our D was hitting Hicks a lot, but most of the time it was after he released the ball.  It was definitely getting to him a bit because when I rewatched the game it was clear he was getting frustrated with the number of times he was getting hit.  Unfortunately for us, it was too little, too late.

[Ben Gooding]

37 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Our D was hitting Hicks a lot, but most of the time it was after he released the ball.  It was definitely getting to him a bit because when I rewatched the game it was clear he was getting frustrated with the number of times he was getting hit.  Unfortunately for us, it was too little, too late.

This is true. Ejiah(?) came in untouched on a sack and stroked Hicks. He didn't not like getting hit like that. He was frustrated with his line literally asking them wth happened. We needed hits like that early and often. Not sporadically. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

This is true. Ejiah(?) came in untouched on a sack and stroked Hicks. He didn't not like getting hit like that. He was frustrated with his line literally asking them wth happened. We needed hits like that early and often. Not sporadically. 

Yep.  Ejiya played well yesterday.  I don't know if Wheeler was rushed back and not at 100%, but he was outplayed at that spot by Ejiya, who was constantly applying pressure when he was sent.

[Cerebus]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

Read through a lot of the posts on here and my thinking is more in the middle (maybe?)

No doomsday knee jerking OR Pollyanna sunshine songs?  This man is a witch.

Burn him.  

[TreeFiddy]

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

No doomsday knee jerking OR Pollyanna sunshine songs?  This man is a witch.

Burn him.  

Yeah, let's just sit on the fence about everything. Going Switzerland has worked well for this athletic program. 

[Censored by Laurie]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenHoops said:

Read through a lot of the posts on here and my thinking is more in the middle (maybe?)

The concerns everyone had at the beginning of the year O-Line and LB play are a clear problem.

The Oline was getting ripped all day. Fine was getting clobbered and we couldn't run at all.

On the flip side when we came after Hicks our LB's did not get to him. He was too comfortable. When he had to move Hicks struggled. Surprising me I thought the D-Line was ok.

Fine has clearly improved from last year. His limitations are clear and teams are still able to take advantage of them by swarming him. But he has at least gotten better. If he had a great oline he could be real good, but that is a long way from where we are.

Special teams are real bad.

We did what typical guy trying to hard to win does and made a lot of silly mistakes that got the game out of hand.

SMU has a clear talent advantage across the board. Easiest way to think about it, who on our team would start for their team. Can't think of too many that I would say that about.

After two games we look better than last year, but it will take time to cover up the weak spots. However, those weak spots keep this team from being much more than a middle of the pack CUSA team.

Too many people on here make excuses for everything. But I guess that is balanced out by some who say everything is awful.

We are pretty much what we've always been. Slightly below something good and frustrating to cheer for.

 

most of this is about where I land after watching...100% sober and relatively un-emotionally (especially as it comes to SMU as a rival...I don't hate SMU and their fans like many of you, I just don't care about them)

the O-Line is an issue, both in the passing game and running game. Mason had very little time most of the day and Jeff/Nic rarely had a hole or even just a true assertive push from our very big line. I'll add that Mason and the backs and ends though need to be far better in blitz recognition and pick-up and that GH (more on him in a bit) needs to be better about taking more from what a defense is giving him. 

ok, more on Harrell now. I love that we have a slew of misdirections and trick plays and I can't wait to see them called when we're between, say, the 35 yard lines. but t run not just one, but two trick-ish plays within 10-15 yards of our own end zone is foolish. so too is take the home-run shot on 4th and 1. so too is to continue to through outs in the flat against a disciplined zone with fast, sure-tackling DBs. so too is to not find more ways to get the ball in the hands of Darden. that kid is gonna be special

and most importantly...so too is to not give Fine more opportunities to stretch the field. He showed he can very capably throw a deep ball and that between Darden, Guyton and Bussey we have legit deep threats and playmakers. Anyone blaming Mason Fine for this loss is either some weird kind of back-up QB-homer biased or just an idiot. I don't think he's "great", mind you, and he has clear limitations...and he definitely missed at least one key throw (to Darden over the middle...sticks in my mind) but he's a true sophomore, looks improved from last year and is a tough as nails gamer. 

I thought the D-Line held it's own. I think we have a very fine rotation between Moore, Young, Tauaalo and Flusche in the sort of interior positions that will improve when English returns...Hamilton is legit, but rush end could stand some more depth...Tillman Johnson's fall from grace has been precipitous...any word on him? injury or does this scheme just not suit him?

Linebackers...first and foremost, Colton McDonald is not an answer. let's get that heart and speed and leadership onto special teams and leave the linebacking for those who can actually read the game. I'd be good with Ejiya and Garner inside, Wheeler outside...maybe Minor/Peters show enough to provide some depth...or everyone seems to be pretty high on Fulp...no need to be thinking about redshirts right now...

DBs...I mean, they know. We have 3 good, not great corners and 2 better safeties who both had pretty bad games. I'm good with saying this was Courtland Freeman just beating us, so long as those 5 players aren't ok with that, and I doubt they are. 

Special Teams, save for Moore, made me so damn nervous the whole night. MGTexan is right, just stick Darden back there and use the other 10 as blockers/rushers...both in terms of his dynamism and hands I feel a lot better with him back there already.

as far as talent...SMU had 3-4 players clearly a tier above, but that's about it.  I think Fine offers more than Hicks...I'd take our stable of backs over SMU's and then my 4-wide look would have 2 SMU receivers and 2 UNT (Freeman/Quinn/Darden/Guyton)

we're gonna get beat up again next week in Iowa. there will be positives to take away and I hope some/most of you actually look for them. Season begins with UAB. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

8 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

...
when English returns
...

Chatted with him at the game, sitting in a handicapped seat with his leg-injury-scooter, still in a boot...  Pissed as hell.   He wants to be out there badly, but does not appear to be anywhere near ready.   I know some folks were hoping for maybe UAB, but that's not gonna happen.

[Censored by Laurie]

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

Chatted with him at the game, sitting in a handicapped seat with his leg-injury-scooter, still in a boot...  Pissed as hell.   He wants to be out there badly, but does not appear to be anywhere near ready.   I know some folks were hoping for maybe UAB, but that's not gonna happen.

disappointing, but DL is pretty far down my list of concerns. 

[Cerebus]

31 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Yeah, let's just sit on the fence about everything. Going Switzerland has worked well for this athletic program. 

It's worked out pretty well for Switzerland.  

[MeanGreenHoops]

22 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

most of this is about where I land after watching...100% sober and relatively un-emotionally (especially as it comes to SMU as a rival...I don't hate SMU and their fans like many of you, I just don't care about them)

the O-Line is an issue, both in the passing game and running game. Mason had very little time most of the day and Jeff/Nic rarely had a hole or even just a true assertive push from our very big line. I'll add that Mason and the backs and ends though need to be far better in blitz recognition and pick-up and that GH (more on him in a bit) needs to be better about taking more from what a defense is giving him. 

ok, more on Harrell now. I love that we have a slew of misdirections and trick plays and I can't wait to see them called when we're between, say, the 35 yard lines. but t run not just one, but two trick-ish plays within 10-15 yards of our own end zone is foolish. so too is take the home-run shot on 4th and 1. so too is to continue to through outs in the flat against a disciplined zone with fast, sure-tackling DBs. so too is to not find more ways to get the ball in the hands of Darden. that kid is gonna be special

and most importantly...so too is to not give Fine more opportunities to stretch the field. He showed he can very capably throw a deep ball and that between Darden, Guyton and Bussey we have legit deep threats and playmakers. Anyone blaming Mason Fine for this loss is either some weird kind of back-up QB-homer biased or just an idiot. I don't think he's "great", mind you, and he has clear limitations...and he definitely missed at least one key throw (to Darden over the middle...sticks in my mind) but he's a true sophomore, looks improved from last year and is a tough as nails gamer. 

I thought the D-Line held it's own. I think we have a very fine rotation between Moore, Young, Tauaalo and Flusche in the sort of interior positions that will improve when English returns...Hamilton is legit, but rush end could stand some more depth...Tillman Johnson's fall from grace has been precipitous...any word on him? injury or does this scheme just not suit him?

Linebackers...first and foremost, Colton McDonald is not an answer. let's get that heart and speed and leadership onto special teams and leave the linebacking for those who can actually read the game. I'd be good with Ejiya and Garner inside, Wheeler outside...maybe Minor/Peters show enough to provide some depth...or everyone seems to be pretty high on Fulp...no need to be thinking about redshirts right now...

DBs...I mean, they know. We have 3 good, not great corners and 2 better safeties who both had pretty bad games. I'm good with saying this was Courtland Freeman just beating us, so long as those 5 players aren't ok with that, and I doubt they are. 

Special Teams, save for Moore, made me so damn nervous the whole night. MGTexan is right, just stick Darden back there and use the other 10 as blockers/rushers...both in terms of his dynamism and hands I feel a lot better with him back there already.

as far as talent...SMU had 3-4 players clearly a tier above, but that's about it.  I think Fine offers more than Hicks...I'd take our stable of backs over SMU's and then my 4-wide look would have 2 SMU receivers and 2 UNT (Freeman/Quinn/Darden/Guyton)

we're gonna get beat up again next week in Iowa. there will be positives to take away and I hope some/most of you actually look for them. Season begins with UAB. 

I try not to rip on Coordinators too much because when you lose or the gambles don't pay off you take more heat than you should. However, totally agree the gambles on our own end (including whoever thought it a good idea to do a reverse on the kickoff early when we were leading) were not the best judgement.

 

 

[Ben Gooding]

7 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

It's worked out pretty well for Switzerland.  

Only if we were Switzerland. 

[Censored by Laurie]

Just now, MeanGreenHoops said:

I try not to rip on Coordinators too much because when you lose or the gambles don't pay off you take more heat than you should. However, totally agree the gambles on our own end (including whoever thought it a good idea to do a reverse on the kickoff early when we were leading) were not the best judgement.

 

 

I think that's my general point...love trick plays, even if they don't come off, but they have to be done with some sense of situational awareness...that if they fail you still have a generally positive or at least neutral subsequent play. everything from Saturday ended up just making bad situations worse

[UNT Mean Green]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't agree with either of the bolded statements.  
Hicks/Peavy were sacked quite a bit.  Lots of pressure in their backfield, and Xavier Jones (who is a heckuva RB) was basically shut down due to the run D.   LB play overall, is fine.

We got beat by Courtland Sutton.  That's it. Plain & simple.   The rest of their team was very beatable.

Yes, and Justin Lawler.

[Withers940]

2 hours ago, Cerebus said:

It's worked out pretty well for Switzerland.  

What about Swaziland 

[Wag Tag]

3 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I think that's my general point...love trick plays, even if they don't come off, but they have to be done with some sense of situational awareness...that if they fail you still have a generally positive or at least neutral subsequent play. everything from Saturday ended up just making bad situations worse

Opponents D for  6- 7 years is still fill the box!!!! Man I am tired of hearing this! 

[MeanGreen_MBA]

5 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I think that's my general point...love trick plays, even if they don't come off, but they have to be done with some sense of situational awareness...that if they fail you still have a generally positive or at least neutral subsequent play. everything from Saturday ended up just making bad situations worse

BUT....if we get past that 1 tackler on the kick-off reverse, there was NOBODY on that side of the field. Nice play for the bad guy....almost a big play for the good guys. 

[VideoEagle]

8 hours ago, Cerebus said:

No doomsday knee jerking OR Pollyanna sunshine songs?  This man is a witch.

Burn him.  

Is he heavier than a duck?

[NT93]

3 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

BUT....if we get past that 1 tackler on the kick-off reverse, there was NOBODY on that side of the field. Nice play for the bad guy....almost a big play for the good guys. 

Thanks for this info.  Both my buddy and I failed to notice if he had open field had the one SMU player not made the play. 

[DeepGreen]

3 hours ago, NT93 said:

Thanks for this info.  Both my buddy and I failed to notice if he had open field had the one SMU player not made the play. 

Check the SMU highlights. Bet it shows what you're looking for.

[UNT Mean Green]

12 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

BUT....if we get past that 1 tackler on the kick-off reverse, there was NOBODY on that side of the field. Nice play for the bad guy....almost a big play for the good guys. 

Yes, absolutely wide open. It looks like a bad call, but it was an excellent call that wasn't executed by one blocker on KO Return.