Perspective

emmitt01 · September 10, 2017

Supposedly our starting QB sucks. Supposedly there were NO bright spots and we were destroyed in all facets of the game (we were outclassed, no argument there, but let's examine that dark cloud)...

Mason Fine:

Through 1 half he was 13/19 (68%) for 124 yards (9.5 per completion) and 1 INT. At that point in the game the score was 24-10.

The argument goes that he then piled on ALL of his yards against the 3rd team defense...so let's examine further.

At the end of the 3rd quarter he was 18/30 (60%) for 242 yards (13.4 per completion) with 1 TD and 2 INT's. He threw that 72 yard TD pass with 7:07 to play in the 3rd quarter to make the score 38-17. To be certain, the game was pretty well in hand but all of SMU's starters were on the field.

So, is Mason Fine a scrub or...and bear with me...is it possible the game plan was abysmal and he completed the only long pass he was allowed to try???

Now, about that defense that we are told had NO bright spots. Let's concede that Courtland Sutton treated us like a rented mule (again, scheme anyone?) and examine everything going on outside of him...

SMU's starting running back, Xavier Jones, had the following stats (he finished with 74 yards and 2 TD):

At halftime he had 5 carries for a whopping 3 yards (1.6 per).

By the end of the 3rd quarter his Heisman campaign consisted of 11 carries for 23 yards (2.09 per).

If you want to talk about someone doing all their damage in garbage time discuss his other 51 yards and both TD's in the 4th quarter against a gassed defense.

Am I saying we are world beaters? Absolutely not. Am I saying we are a lock for another bowl game? Again, nope. But I am saying that there ARE things to build on, there ARE (mainly coaching) areas that can be improved and we DO have D1 athletes on this roster...despite what the "all gloom, all the time" keyboard warriors and their "if you say 'accountability' enough times, magic happens!" mantra might tell you.

Aldo · September 10, 2017

Say it louder for the people in the back.

The offense didn't move last year even when in garbage time. The offense moved last night.

In CUSA play, we will be ok.

1-1 after two games. Ten games to go in the regular season.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Aldo

UNTLifer · September 10, 2017

Thank you. I expect the usual suspects to try and shoot holes in this, but the facts will show they are either shooting blanks or have an extreme bias. There were a number of throws Fine made, the long ball to Guyton, the rolling out to his left throw that was negated by a phantom holding call in the end zone and another throw, I believe to Lawrence, where he was rolling left and throwing against his body that were dead on perfect. There is a lot to grow on and improve upon and this team is fully capabke of winning CUSA.

KingDL1 · September 10, 2017

30 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Supposedly our starting QB sucks. Supposedly there were NO bright spots and we were destroyed in all facets of the game (we were outclassed, no argument there, but let's examine that dark cloud)...

Mason Fine:

Through 1 half he was 13/19 (68%) for 124 yards (9.5 per completion) and 1 INT. At that point in the game the score was 24-10.

The argument goes that he then piled on ALL of his yards against the 3rd team defense...so let's examine further.

At the end of the 3rd quarter he was 18/30 (60%) for 242 yards (13.4 per completion) with 1 TD and 2 INT's. He threw that 72 yard TD pass with 7:07 to play in the 3rd quarter to make the score 38-17. To be certain, the game was pretty well in hand but all of SMU's starters were on the field.

So, is Mason Fine a scrub or...and bear with me...is it possible the game plan was abysmal and he completed the only long pass he was allowed to try???

Now, about that defense that we are told had NO bright spots. Let's concede that Courtland Sutton treated us like a rented mule (again, scheme anyone?) and examine everything going on outside of him...

SMU's starting running back, Xavier Jones, had the following stats (he finished with 74 yards and 2 TD):

At halftime he had 5 carries for a whopping 3 yards (1.6 per).

By the end of the 3rd quarter his Heisman campaign consisted of 11 carries for 23 yards (2.09 per).

If you want to talk about someone doing all their damage in garbage time discuss his other 51 yards and both TD's in the 4th quarter against a gassed defense.

Am I saying we are world beaters? Absolutely not. Am I saying we are a lock for another bowl game? Again, nope. But I am saying that there ARE things to build on, there ARE (mainly coaching) areas that can be improved and we DO have D1 athletes on this roster...despite what the "all gloom, all the time" keyboard warriors and their "if you say 'accountability' enough times, magic happens!" mantra might tell you.

What a joke they beat us like a rag doll, they put 54 freaking points on us and could have put more points on the board if they wanted.

If SMU did not have use Sutton here and there who cares they got it done. We were not competitive after the first quarter and just got worse. It like a team being proud they held there opponent to 24 passing yards oh but they gave up 600 yards running. SMU took advantage of what we gave them and we gave them plenty.

emmitt01 · September 10, 2017

6 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

What a joke they beat us like a rag doll, they put 54 freaking points on us and could have put more points on the board if they wanted.

If SMU did not have use Sutton here and there who cares they got it done. We were not competitive after the first quarter and just got worse. It like a team being proud they held there opponent to 24 passing yards oh but they gave up 600 yards running. SMU took advantage of what we gave them and we gave them plenty.

I'd never let facts or stats get in the way of a good narrative...but, just for kicks, let's look at them...

Their QB Ben Hicks was 20/39 (51%) for 312 yards and 4 TD's. If we take away, how was it you put it "Sutton here and there", they (again your words) "got it done", right?

Well, without the future NFL'er and his "here and there" contribution, Hicks was 12/31 (39%) for 149 yards and 0 TD's. Damn, maybe he'll have to share the Heisman with Xavier Jones!!!

SMH

outoftown · September 10, 2017

53 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

Supposedly our starting QB sucks. Supposedly there were NO bright spots and we were destroyed in all facets of the game (we were outclassed, no argument there, but let's examine that dark cloud)...

Mason Fine:

Through 1 half he was 13/19 (68%) for 124 yards (9.5 per completion) and 1 INT. At that point in the game the score was 24-10.

The argument goes that he then piled on ALL of his yards against the 3rd team defense...so let's examine further.

At the end of the 3rd quarter he was 18/30 (60%) for 242 yards (13.4 per completion) with 1 TD and 2 INT's. He threw that 72 yard TD pass with 7:07 to play in the 3rd quarter to make the score 38-17. To be certain, the game was pretty well in hand but all of SMU's starters were on the field.

So, is Mason Fine a scrub or...and bear with me...is it possible the game plan was abysmal and he completed the only long pass he was allowed to try???

Now, about that defense that we are told had NO bright spots. Let's concede that Courtland Sutton treated us like a rented mule (again, scheme anyone?) and examine everything going on outside of him...

SMU's starting running back, Xavier Jones, had the following stats (he finished with 74 yards and 2 TD):

At halftime he had 5 carries for a whopping 3 yards (1.6 per).

By the end of the 3rd quarter his Heisman campaign consisted of 11 carries for 23 yards (2.09 per).

If you want to talk about someone doing all their damage in garbage time discuss his other 51 yards and both TD's in the 4th quarter against a gassed defense.

Am I saying we are world beaters? Absolutely not. Am I saying we are a lock for another bowl game? Again, nope. But I am saying that there ARE things to build on, there ARE (mainly coaching) areas that can be improved and we DO have D1 athletes on this roster...despite what the "all gloom, all the time" keyboard warriors and their "if you say 'accountability' enough times, magic happens!" mantra might tell you.

If you read my post in the general observations thread, then you know: I am right there with you.

drex · September 10, 2017

We are in a terrible situation, in some ways. Our 'fans' want us to produce a product before they will buy in. We have no wiggle room because of our dire straits in fund raising. NT is looking for long term investors and the potential investors are looking for blue chip stock.

KingDL1 · September 10, 2017

7 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

I'd never let facts or stats get in the way of a good narrative...but, just for kicks, let's look at them...

Their QB Ben Hicks was 20/39 (51%) for 312 yards and 4 TD's. If we take away, how was it you put it "Sutton here and there", they (again your words) "got it done", right?

Well, without the future NFL'er and his "here and there" contribution, Hicks was 12/31 (39%) for 149 yards and 0 TD's. Damn, maybe he'll have to share the Heisman with Xavier Jones!!!

SMH

In this case the only stats that matter is the final score and our lack to get back in the game kills me. We were not competitive last night, shit you want a bright spot we had more fans in the stadium than SMU I think and I am sure we could get louder.

emmitt01 · September 10, 2017

3 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

In this case the only stats that matter is the final score and our lack to get back in the game kills me. We were not competitive last night, shit you want a bright spot we had more fans in the stadium than SMU I think and I am sure we could get louder.

On this I agree completely. Make no mistake, we have SERIOUS work to be done. My greater point is that the sky isn't falling...just dangling 😄

Ben Gooding · September 10, 2017

7 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

I'd never let facts or stats get in the way of a good narrative...but, just for kicks, let's look at them...

Their QB Ben Hicks was 20/39 (51%) for 312 yards and 4 TD's. If we take away, how was it you put it "Sutton here and there", they (again your words) "got it done", right?

Well, without the future NFL'er and his "here and there" contribution, Hicks was 12/31 (39%) for 149 yards and 0 TD's. Damn, maybe he'll have to share the Heisman with Xavier Jones!!!

SMH

If if's and but's were candy and nuts, then we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

182 yards of passing and 2 touchdowns came in complete garbage time vs G5 2nd and 3rd teamers in 1 quarter. Even then, we still had 2 turnover on downs in the very same quarter. 250+ yards were when the game was no longer in question starting at about the 8 or 9 minute mark of the 3rd quarter. These numbers are what they are, not made up and not pushed with a spin. You can keep trying to say the naysayers have some kind of agenda, but it's the very thing you are doing...Pushing an a agenda.

KingDL1 · September 10, 2017

1 minute ago, emmitt01 said:

On this I agree completely. Make no mistake, we have SERIOUS work to be done. My greater point is that the sky isn't falling...just dangling 😄

I am not sure I have enough tequila for a bad season

NM Green · September 10, 2017

I saw score updates from afar and didn't have to weather the beating in person.

My outside the fishbowl looking in:

1. Doesn't sound like we sustained injuries which is great!

2. Team didn't quit even when I did and went back to watching osu vs ou on the big screen.

3. Smu is going to give tcu a game this year. They may not beat them as it appears that all 3 metro teams are improved. Even smu fan is saying we improved and will compete for cusa.

4. Smu may be the best team we play this year. I actually think it is harder to play your mirror. Smu and UNT seem to be very similar in styles. Iowa could be there for the taking and could smu 2017 beat Iowa 2017? I say yes sir. So why can't we? Go give the flying high Hawkeyes heck next weekend!

5. I think utsa is primed to win this league. It will be fun to welcome them to Denton.

It's still going to be a fun run!

GMG

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

I saw the talent last night. NT has the talent to win. However, there isn't enough talent to overcome bad coaching.....

Edited September 10, 2017 by Got5onIt

UNTexas · September 10, 2017

I hope they bench our punt returners and put in anyone who can catch or just get away from the ball.

emmitt01 · September 10, 2017

13 minutes ago, UNTKING said:

Boy I wish we had Alec Morris last night to come into the 4th quarter for Fine.

????

So that Morris could play from waaaaay behind?

GangGreen · September 10, 2017

9 minutes ago, UNTexas said:

I hope they bench our punt returners and put in anyone who can catch or just get away from the ball.

Side Show Joe · September 10, 2017

17 minutes ago, UNTexas said:

I hope they bench our punt returners and put in anyone who can catch or just get away from the ball.

Darden got the job done. Too bad it took a game and a half for our special teams coach to figure that out.

emmitt01 · September 10, 2017

14 minutes ago, UNTKING said:

No so he can get praised like Fine did last season when Fine got garbage points and yards. And yet the same thing happened yesterday.

Sure thing buddy...because Alec Morris was the missing ingredient

Fine put up 182 yards and 2 TD's in the 4th when our only option was throwing. Clearly he is to blame for the game plan that put us in that position.

Edited September 10, 2017 by emmitt01

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

40 minutes ago, UNTexas said:

I hope they bench our punt returners and put in anyone who can catch or just get away from the ball.

They did... Darden...

TreeFiddy · September 11, 2017

This game unraveled starting with 2:00 left in the 2nd qtr and went through the first 3 or 4 minutes of the 3rd. We gave up 21 unanswered points and the game was pretty much over. Most of the damage was pretty much self inflicted rather than domination by smoo.

Failure to stop them on 3rd and long, inability to fair catch a punt, blown coverage by secondary for easy Sutton TD, tip pass interception, inexplicable overturn of Flusche's interception, etc... and it was church.

emmitt01 · September 11, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTKING said:

Oh wait remember when you thought Dajon Williams was the ingredient lol

Ya I think you need to revaluate on how you look at Qbs.

Just for fun, let's evaluate Morris vs Fine last year and all of those "garbage time" stats Mason put up.

SMU(loss)- Morris went 24/39 (61%) for 237 yards, 2 TD and 3 INT

Bethune Cookman (win)- Morris was 4/11 (36%) for 13 yards and 1 INT...Fine was 11/22 (50%) for 108 yards. We won this game on the ground, and it's Bethune Cookman, but those are the stats

Florida (loss)- Fine was 6/22 (27%) for 66 yards and 1 INT

Rice (win)- Fine was 17/27 (63%) for 232 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT

MUTS (loss)- Fine went 35/54 (65%) for 303 yards and 1 TD

Marshall (win)- Fine went 18/28 (64%) for 206 yards and 1 TD

Army (win)- Fine went 9/17 (53%) for 118 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT

UTSA (loss)- Fine went 27/38 (71%) for 257 yards, 1 TD and 2 INT...and rushed 12 times for 91 yards and 1 TD

La Tech (loss)- Fine went 23/34 (68%) for 207 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT

Sooo Fine was 3-4 as a starter (throwing out Bethune Cookman and giving him no credit for that game).

Combined he passed for 1,389 yards, 6 TD and 6 INT. 556 of those yards 3 TD and 2 INT came in the 3 wins. I think we can safely say he wasn't throwing for many "garbage" yards in those games.

Of the remaining yards, let's be as overtly critical as possible and assume that 75% of them came in garbage time. We know that's an insane standard but I'd hate to combat your silliness with anything less than erring in your favor. If we do so, that means that about 45% of the total yards were what you would call "garbage" yards.

Not pretty, but let's examine Morris after Fine's injury.

WKU (loss)- Morris was 14/26 (54%) for 108 yards and 1 INT.

USM (win)- Morris went 14/29 (48%) for 267 yards, 2 TD and 1 INT

UTEP (loss)- Morris was 23/42 (55%) for 197 yards and 2 TD

So, in the 4 games where he was the starter he was 1-3. He threw for a combined 809 yards, 6TD and 4 INT (again, throwing out the FCS school Bethune Cookman)

Keeping in mind that two of these games (UTEP and WKU) were among the biggest blowout losses we suffered...and since we threw out 75% of Mason's yards in his losses...let's do the same for Morris. So, that leaves a combined 406 yards of the total 809 (or 50%) of his passing yards that would be "garbage" yards.

Fine- 133/220 (60%) overall with 45% assumed as "garbage" yards

Morris- 75/136 (55%) overall with 50% assumed as "garbage " yards

Of course, I guess, instead of actually examining the numbers, we could stick with your wild ass assumptions and assertions.

Edited September 11, 2017 by emmitt01

emmitt01 · September 11, 2017

3 minutes ago, UNTKING said:

As I recalled we relied heavily on our run game and the fact that Morris was thrown into the wolves after the SMU game, we continue to have people give Fine a pass with excuses. But this coming from the guy who thought Dajon Williams was the answer one season lol

So wild ass it is