Looking for bright spots

Green Crazy · September 11, 2017

stare into the sun and flash bulbs if you want bright spots. ;)

GangGreen · September 11, 2017

23 hours ago, KingDL1 said:

Lifer I was really embarrassed for us yesterday. and it is the same shit a different year.

I don't blame any of our fans to have optimism or look for the silver lining. I've been trying to do the same thing for the last 20+ years, as well.

Personally, I just don't have the fortitude to continue to do so. I accept it. We suck and have sucked for as long as I have watched the team. We have had some bright spots along the way, but most programs would look back on these as springboards to further success.

Every time we have had success (in North Texas terms) it has resulted in another long drawn out rebuilding process that never happens. We have been told as fans to just hang in there for another 3-4 years.

Once we move into a new stadium things will change. If we could just play against more regional opponents, things will change. If we can get an indoor practice facility, things will change. If we can pay our coaches more money, things will change.

I have no clue how close we are to turning the corner. It is very understandable why our alumni are so disillusioned, apathetic and just worn out.

untjim1995 · September 11, 2017

8 minutes ago, GangGreen said:

I don't blame any of our fans to have optimism or look for the silver lining. I've been trying to do the same thing for the last 20+ years, as well.

Personally, I just don't have the fortitude to continue to do so. I accept it. We suck and have sucked for as long as I have watched the team. We have had some bright spots along the way, but most programs would look back on these as springboards to further success.

Every time we have had success (in North Texas terms) it has resulted in another long drawn out rebuilding process that never happens. We have been told as fans to just hang in there for another 3-4 years.

Once we move into a new stadium things will change. If we could just play against more regional opponents, things will change. If we can get an indoor practice facility, things will change. If we can pay our coaches more money, things will change.

I have no clue how close we are to turning the corner. It is very understandable why our alumni are so disillusioned, apathetic and just worn out.

This.

Sometimes, you just make it easier on yourself to not really get your expectations up at all. The few times I have, after 2003-2004 seasons, as well as after the 2013 season, it has gone back to crush my Mean Green soul. I follow the team because they are my alma mater and I don't want to be a t-shirt fan of some football power and claim them as my own just because my school likes music and arts in the same way A&M, UT, OU, Tech, etc...like football and basketball.

It took me 20+ years to get to that point, but it has put a lot of things in perspective. If you cannot win, its usually because the commitment isn't there financially, administratively, or from fan support. Its better today than it ever has been, but that damage that had been done for so long until the last 5+ years is too much to overcome for our program. The reputation is dog$hit with non diehard fans, media, other schools higher up the FBS foodchain than us, and even worse, the Texas HS football coaches, recruits, and their parents. To expect Seth Littrell to be able to just start winning 8+ games a year in his first head coaching job at the place that was the worst program in America when he inherited it is just Pie-in-the-sky. Frankly, I said this when he got hired, but it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't get it done here and is fired after 4 or so years on the job--just because of the pure mountain of manure he inherited and is trying to rebuild. And if it happens, our program will still be light years better for the next coach than where it was when SL took the job, where the worst AD in America was still in charge, the roster was full of quitters as evidenced by Portland State, and our offensive parts were 180 degrees from SL's offense that he has built his reputation on.

Losing to the Ponies doesn't change any reality we are currently sitting in up in Denton. SMU is way ahead of us still--and they should be. They pay more, have more name recognition, and play in a better conference. It sucks, but it is what it is.

If we lose to UAB in a few weeks, then I'll gladly tell you that SL is failing and that we have made almost no progress since we got massacred by a FCS team at home on Homecoming in 2015. But I think we will throttle those guys--it'll just be in front of about 12k in real butts-in-seats attendance.

Ben Gooding · September 11, 2017

12 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

This.

Sometimes, you just make it easier on yourself to not really get your expectations up at all. The few times I have, after 2003-2004 seasons, as well as after the 2013 season, it has gone back to crush my Mean Green soul. I follow the team because they are my alma mater and I don't want to be a t-shirt fan of some football power and claim them as my own just because my school likes music and arts in the same way A&M, UT, OU, Tech, etc...like football and basketball.

It took me 20+ years to get to that point, but it has put a lot of things in perspective. If you cannot win, its usually because the commitment isn't there financially, administratively, or from fan support. Its better today than it ever has been, but that damage that had been done for so long until the last 5+ years is too much to overcome for our program. The reputation is dog$hit with non diehard fans, media, other schools higher up the FBS foodchain than us, and even worse, the Texas HS football coaches, recruits, and their parents. To expect Seth Littrell to be able to just start winning 8+ games a year in his first head coaching job at the place that was the worst program in America when he inherited it is just Pie-in-the-sky. Frankly, I said this when he got hired, but it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't get it done here and is fired after 4 or so years on the job--just because of the pure mountain of manure he inherited and is trying to rebuild. And if it happens, our program will still be light years better for the next coach than where it was when SL took the job, where the worst AD in America was still in charge, the roster was full of quitters as evidenced by Portland State, and our offensive parts were 180 degrees from SL's offense that he has built his reputation on.

Losing to the Ponies doesn't change any reality we are currently sitting in up in Denton. SMU is way ahead of us still--and they should be. They pay more, have more name recognition, and play in a better conference. It sucks, but it is what it is.

If we lose to UAB in a few weeks, then I'll gladly tell you that SL is failing and that we have made almost no progress since we got massacred by a FCS team at home on Homecoming in 2015. But I think we will throttle those guys--it'll just be in front of about 12k in real butts-in-seats attendance.

The commitment is there 2 of the 3. We pay our HC the 2nd most in CUSA. We pay our assistants the 4th most in CUSA. We have a top 3 CUSA athletic budget. We have the 2nd nicest stadium in CUSA. The financial commitment has been put in place via the administration. When talking about our peers, we do less with more. And it's unacceptable. But what fan, the normal type of fan, is going to get excited hearing about getting dog sledded by SMU and probably night trained by Iowa in back-to-back weeks. After these 2 weeks fully play out, do you think the normal fan will come how to watch us against the University of Alabama at Birmingham Blazers AKA Dragons. No. No chance. We can't get fan support because we can't win games consistently. We can't win games consistently because we can't recruit with success. We are paying, in comparison to our peers, a premium price for a quality product. And we aren't receiving it. Recruiting will be Seth Littrell's demise. But the same people will be clamoring about whoever our new coach is for whatever unjustified reasons they vomit up whenever X coach is still signing 10th place ranked classes in CUSA. Want to win? Want to beat SMU? Want to compete for division championships? Well, you better want to start recruiting better.

Huff · September 11, 2017

To me there are two bright spots about this game. Number one is that the game is over. Number two is that we don't play them again this season.

untjim1995 · September 11, 2017

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

The commitment is there 2 of the 3. We pay our HC the 2nd most in CUSA. We pay our assistants the 4th most in CUSA. We have a top 3 CUSA athletic budget. We have the 2nd nicest stadium in CUSA. The financial commitment has been put in place via the administration. When talking about our peers, we do less with more. And it's unacceptable. But what fan, the normal type of fan, is going to get excited hearing about getting dog sledded by SMU and probably night trained by Iowa in back-to-back weeks. After these 2 weeks fully play out, do you think the normal fan will come how to watch us against the University of Alabama at Birmingham Blazers AKA Dragons. No. No chance. We can't get fan support because we can't win games consistently. We can't win games consistently because we can't recruit with success. We are paying, in comparison to our peers, a premium price for a quality product. And we aren't receiving it. Recruiting will be Seth Littrell's demise. But the same people will be clamoring about whoever our new coach is for whatever unjustified reasons they vomit up whenever X coach is still signing 10th place ranked classes in CUSA. Want to win? Want to beat SMU? Want to compete for division championships? Well, you better want to start recruiting better.

We pay our Head Coach half of what SMU pays. Chad Morris was TX HS Coach and was the highest paid assistant coach in America before he came to SMU. He and they have name recognition with TX HS Coaches, Parents, and recruits. All oft eh CUSA stuff you point out is right--and that's who we will play starting in two weeks, CUSA teams. SMU may have been a dreg of college football a few years back, but like Southern Miss did, they hired right, spent cash, and used their NAME RECOGNITION/REPUTATION to rebuild their programs. We don't have that last part because our reputation was allowed for decades to be dog$hit compared to other Texas/regional schools.

SL may be a failure here, or he may not be, but in the second game of his second season, he lost a game at team that is in a better conference, with a coach making double his salary and about to make the leap to being a P5 giant head coach if things keep progressing, while playing at their place. That is normal to happen to a team that is a bit over a year removed from being the absolute worst team in America and suffered the worst loss in modern college football history less than two years ago. That doesn't just go away by September of a brand new coach's second season on the job, with an OC in the same situation, while coaching a group of players who were recruited here to run a 1975 Caprice Classic and now have to run the equivalent of a sports car. And you're trying to do that with a roster made up largely of recruits who didn't have strong offers from other FBS programs that we want to emulate.

We are paying a high price for a coach, at out level, because we are hoping to have a guy here that will make up a lot of lost ground. There's a long way to go on that part, but to many here, the cost is all they see and can't believe we still suck. It's the same thing our fans thought when we moved up to I-A, then moved into Apogee, then moved up to CUSA, then hired Mac, and now pay Littrell even more money...nothing changes, even with these improvements, because, shocking, EVERYBODY ELSE IMPROVED THIS STUFF ALONG TIME AGO that our few fans want to be like. Again, until shown otherwise, beyond a few exceptions to the rule over the last 22 years, recruiting here cannot be done at a level above SMU. Since that who we are comparing ourselves to right now, we need to its apples to oranges, no matter how much it crushes the fanbase around here that hates a school that was last relevant on the national scene 35 years ago. That's how asinine this "rivalry" is...they don't give a phuck about us and we get pissed when they use their $$$ and influence to beat us into the ground.

We are watching a school like UTSA fly by because they didn't get lost in the weeds on how much to charge students for an athletic fee--they charged the full amount, just like Texas State did...we didn't though, because it hurts the value proposition here. We are watching UTSA fly by because they hired a great recruiter from LSU that knows all of the coaches in high schools across Texas and Louisiana and is selling them on building something special. If a school could have a negative (below zero) ranking with HS coaches in this state, it would be us because of what they have known us to be for decades. And finally they are playing P5 names competitively and getting series with them at home. We are instead drooling over a series with SMU, who has shown time and again that we are nothing to them and if they lose to us, their coach is immediately on the firing line. You want to fix recruiting here? Coach up the kids you have here and beat CUSA teams first. They are all on our level. Then, get to the point where AAC and MWC teams can get beaten by us, both from a coaching standpoint and from better recruits. Two seasons ago, we couldn't beat anyone without miraculous circumstances. Last year, we started winning low level CUSA games. This year, we need to beat a UTSA, an ODU, even A USM on the road, while beating the UTEPs, Rices, and UABs of the world, too. Beat Army at home. Get to 6 wins and make a bowl again. Show improvement That's realistic steps to get the recruiting to improve here--if it can. Because right now, there is absolutely nothing that says it can improve or that it will improve to where the gmg posters want it to get to.

Ben Gooding · September 11, 2017

4 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

We pay our Head Coach half of what SMU pays. Chad Morris was TX HS Coach and was the highest paid assistant coach in America before he came to SMU. He and they have name recognition with TX HS Coaches, Parents, and recruits. All oft eh CUSA stuff you point out is right--and that's who we will play starting in two weeks, CUSA teams. SMU may have been a dreg of college football a few years back, but like Southern Miss did, they hired right, spent cash, and used their NAME RECOGNITION/REPUTATION to rebuild their programs. We don't have that last part because our reputation was allowed for decades to be dog$hit compared to other Texas/regional schools.

SL may be a failure here, or he may not be, but in the second game of his second season, he lost a game at team that is in a better conference, with a coach making double his salary and about to make the leap to being a P5 giant head coach if things keep progressing, while playing at their place. That is normal to happen to a team that is a bit over a year removed from being the absolute worst team in America and suffered the worst loss in modern college football history less than two years ago. That doesn't just go away by September of a brand new coach's second season on the job, with an OC in the same situation, while coaching a group of players who were recruited here to run a 1975 Caprice Classic and now have to run the equivalent of a sports car. And you're trying to do that with a roster made up largely of recruits who didn't have strong offers from other FBS programs that we want to emulate.

We are paying a high price for a coach, at out level, because we are hoping to have a guy here that will make up a lot of lost ground. There's a long way to go on that part, but to many here, the cost is all they see and can't believe we still suck. It's the same thing our fans thought when we moved up to I-A, then moved into Apogee, then moved up to CUSA, then hired Mac, and now pay Littrell even more money...nothing changes, even with these improvements, because, shocking, EVERYBODY ELSE IMPROVED THIS STUFF ALONG TIME AGO that our few fans want to be like. Again, until shown otherwise, beyond a few exceptions to the rule over the last 22 years, recruiting here cannot be done at a level above SMU. Since that who we are comparing ourselves to right now, we need to its apples to oranges, no matter how much it crushes the fanbase around here that hates a school that was last relevant on the national scene 35 years ago. That's how asinine this "rivalry" is...they don't give a phuck about us and we get pissed when they use their $$$ and influence to beat us into the ground.

We are watching a school like UTSA fly by because they didn't get lost in the weeds on how much to charge students for an athletic fee--they charged the full amount, just like Texas State did...we didn't though, because it hurts the value proposition here. We are watching UTSA fly by because they hired a great recruiter from LSU that knows all of the coaches in high schools across Texas and Louisiana and is selling them on building something special. If a school could have a negative (below zero) ranking with HS coaches in this state, it would be us because of what they have known us to be for decades. And finally they are playing P5 names competitively and getting series with them at home. We are instead drooling over a series with SMU, who has shown time and again that we are nothing to them and if they lose to us, their coach is immediately on the firing line. You want to fix recruiting here? Coach up the kids you have here and beat CUSA teams first. They are all on our level. Then, get to the point where AAC and MWC teams can get beaten by us, both from a coaching standpoint and from better recruits. Two seasons ago, we couldn't beat anyone without miraculous circumstances. Last year, we started winning low level CUSA games. This year, we need to beat a UTSA, an ODU, even A USM on the road, while beating the UTEPs, Rices, and UABs of the world, too. Beat Army at home. Get to 6 wins and make a bowl again. Show improvement That's realistic steps to get the recruiting to improve here--if it can. Because right now, there is absolutely nothing that says it can improve or that it will improve to where the gmg posters want it to get to.

Most of this is pretty valid.

But the season before our worst program in the country season, want to know who was one of the worst programs in the country? SMU.

And again, it's not that we lost to SMU, it's how we lost to SMU. I heard what must've been a former SMU player walking out of the stadium right after the game. He said, "I figured we would win, but not win like that." When their own fans didn't see that ass whipping coming, something is wrong. There was no competitiveness from a team that in theory we should AT LEAST be competitive with, given they not long before us (1 season) were one of the worst programs around.

Our top teams in CUSA have recruited at the level of SMU over the last 4 or 5 years. IMO, our top teams would handle SMU and some would rather easily. It puts the season and our current watermark in perspective. Season 2 typically isn't a boom type season for most coaches. But it's where the culture is still be instilled and being rag dolled by a peer G5 program should not be deemed acceptable.

untjim1995 · September 11, 2017

25 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Most of this is pretty valid.

But the season before our worst program in the country season, want to know who was one of the worst programs in the country? SMU.

And again, it's not that we lost to SMU, it's how we lost to SMU. I heard what must've been a former SMU player walking out of the stadium right after the game. He said, "I figured we would win, but not win like that." When their own fans didn't see that ass whipping coming, something is wrong. There was no competitiveness from a team that in theory we should AT LEAST be competitive with, given they not long before us (1 season) were one of the worst programs around.

Our top teams in CUSA have recruited at the level of SMU over the last 4 or 5 years. IMO, our top teams would handle SMU and some would rather easily. It puts the season and our current watermark in perspective. Season 2 typically isn't a boom type season for most coaches. But it's where the culture is still be instilled and being rag dolled by a peer G5 program should not be deemed acceptable.

Just remember that after June Jones got fired, SMU went out and paid Chad Morris, who was already the highest paid assistant in the country, as well as having been a former Texas HS Head Coach at Bay City, Stephenville, and Lake Travis. They paid him $2 million dollars to become their head coach. Why? Because they knew that combining their cash and private school degree/name recognition with Chad Morris' coaching pedigree and his connections to Texas HS Coaches SHOULD payoff bigtime for everyone involved. Hell, he was recruiting kids to Clemson from Texas while being their OC, just to prove the point here.

We hired a guy who has never coached a down of football before as a head coach anywhere, much less in Texas HS ranks. We looked at his pedigree and offered him the job at almost a million to start, have since bumped it up to around that figure, but he has zero recruiting connections here and he is coaching at a place that regularly recruits below everyone we dream to be included with, usually by a lot, no matter the coach, stadium, conference affiliation, etc...and as it turns out, our quiet coach doesn't exactly light it up on the recruiting front anyway, so now you get the double whammy of horrible history and apathy of the program with an introverted coach who isn't going to convince TX HS coaches and parents to send their kids here because of his motivating style.

All I know is that I have seen zero coaches succeed here at any level of success that garnered even decent exposure from the local media. Obviously, Hayden Fry was able to do it, but he was probably one of the best 50 coaches of alltime if you factor in what he accomplished here and at Iowa. But that guy had charisma and a coaching mind that nobody else has ever combined to have here and use it for success as our head coach. I thought McCarney was gonna be the one, and it started out promising, but the combination of stubbornness, poor recruiting, horrible history, and his health issues all crushed that dream. Maybe SL is the guy to fix it here, like Hayden Fry did, lifting us above so many great SWC teams of the time. But if he doesn't, it isn't like he won't have company as not being able to make a FBS program accomplish much at UNT.

And I can tell by SL's press conference that he is more than a bit peeved at how much we got handled by SMU. I think he thought we would compete better with them. But their talent level is just much higher than ours, again, as it should be. They pay their coach twice what we pay, they play in the toughest G5 conference, and they are in his third year of rebuilding their program with recruits usually rated much higher than ours. It just isn't a surprise to lose by 3 TDs to them on the road, right now, even if should have been worse than that...