This is all McCarney's fault!

Ben Gooding · September 10, 2017

Just now, BTG_Fan1 said:

We do have a lot of good fit kids, but they are young and are performing (Nic Smith, Darden, Rico, Hambone, Lawerence, etc)... the problem areas like OL, none of them are playing and the current guys are not playing well.. Yes, a current "system guy" like Mayfield are playing but its having someone with some college experience vs a true freshman...

Also, I've said it before.. But if recruiting is so easy (as you seem to believe) then why don't you and whoever else write up a script and email it/maill to the staff? Better yet go up and meet with them on Tuesday nights and help them out when they are on the phones talking with recruits? I even bet they will give you a sideline pass and hire you if you're as good as you have claimed to be.

Performing in blowouts is not performing. I mean somebody has to be handed the ball and someone has to be thrown the ball.

It's not my damn job. It's theirs. They get paid handsomely to do it. Do it better.

meanrob · September 10, 2017

56 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We do have a lot of good fit kids, but they are young and are performing (Nic Smith, Darden, Rico, Hambone, Lawerence, etc)... the problem areas like OL, none of them are playing and the current guys are not playing well.. Yes, a current "system guy" like Mayfield are playing but its having someone with some college experience vs a true freshman...

Also, I've said it before.. But if recruiting is so easy (as you seem to believe) then why don't you and whoever else write up a script and email it/maill to the staff? Better yet go up and meet with them on Tuesday nights and help them out when they are on the phones talking with recruits? I even bet they will give you a sideline pass and hire you if you're as good as you have claimed to be.

This is the dumbest argument in the history of arguments. Littrell gets paid a lot of money. Recruiting is part of the job. I don't care if it's easy or hard. To be a successful college coach you have to recruit well. Period. You want some fan to get on the phone and recruit as opposed to the guys getting paid six-figures to do it? You want him to draw up the damn game plan too?

If any coach or administrator in a competitive business doesn't think it's fair to be based on wins or losses, I've got a solution for him/her. Get in another line of work.

The only thing worse than kneejerk overreactions is absolute cluelessness. And suggesting a fan write up a script for a FBS coach to use for recruiting is the pinnacle of cluelessness. Although the look on Littrell's face when Ben handed him the piece of paper would be damn priceless.

Edited September 10, 2017 by meanrob

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

12 minutes ago, meanrob said:

This is the dumbest argument in the history of arguments. Littrell gets paid a lot of money. Recruiting is part of the job. I don't care if it's easy or hard. To be a successful college coach you have to recruit well. Period. You want some fan to get on the phone and recruit as opposed to the guys getting paid six-figures to do it? You want him to draw up the damn game plan too?

If any coach or administrator in a competitive business doesn't think it's fair to be based on wins or losses, I've got a solution for him/her. Get in another line of work.

The only thing worse than kneejerk overreactions is absolute cluelessness. And suggesting a fan write up a script for a FBS coach to use for recruiting is the pinnacle of cluelessness. Although the look on Littrell's face when Ben handed him the piece of paper would be damn priceless.

The purpose of me saying for someone to go work the phones, is because its the same people that says recruiting sucks.. These are the same people bitching about Bean, our 2018 QB Commit, that had offers from LAT, SMU, CSU, and others... Yes the LAT offer was off the table but he was still offered, so it counts because he was offered at 1 time... So apparently we are able to recruit some, but we don't suck...

If recruiting sucks and its so easy that fans can point it out, go do something about it, us sitting around and bitching on GMG.com isn't going to fix something. People bitched about RV for years and it didn't do anything on here or with a damn banner, why GMG.com carry any more weight now??

You don't like the way something is being fixed, do you go bitch about it online hoping it gets fixed or do you do it yourself? If you're that good at good at recruiting, I bet WB will hire whoever it is.. If he is paying SL $1M to coach, image what he would pay someone who can recruit and just work the phones 1 or 2 times a week..

Edited September 10, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

meanrob · September 10, 2017

9 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

The purpose of me saying for someone to go work the phones, is because its the same people that says recruiting sucks.. These are the same people bitching about Bean, our 2018 QB Commit, that had offers from LAT, SMU, CSU, and others... Yes the LAT offer was off the table but he was still offered, so it counts because he was offered at 1 time... So apparently we are able to recruit some, but we don't suck...

If recruiting sucks and its so easy that fans can point it out, go do something about it, us sitting around and bitching on GMG.com isn't going to fix something. People bitched about RV for years and it didn't do anything on here or with a damn banner, why GMG.com carry any more weight now??

You don't like the way something is being fixed, do you go bitch about it online hoping it gets fixed or do you do it yourself? If you're that good at good at recruiting, I bet WB will hire whoever it is.. If he is paying SL $1M to coach, image what he would pay someone who can recruit and just work the phones 1 or 2 times a week..

Appointing yourself the one to counter everyone's criticism on here doesn't change a damn thing either. If people can't blow off steam on a message board after a bad loss, when/where can they?

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

Just now, meanrob said:

Appointing yourself the one to counter everyone's criticism on here doesn't change a damn thing either. If people can't blow off steam on a message board after a bad loss, when/where can they?

Steam can be blown off, but have a legitimate reason for what you say..

Like the offense hasn't progressed under GH and we have the same crap game plan since WK1 last year.. not just GH can't coach, let's fire him..

Saying recruiting sucks, but yet being glad we land a recruiting to only 2-3 weeks later saying the recruit sucks, makes no sense..

If we go out and beat Iowa, idc if it's by 1 or by 20.. everyone will forget the whole SMU game and be glad our problems are over with.. if you had asked people before the season they would have said 1 thing, and if you had asked after Lamar you likely wouldn't have gotten the same response.. People overreact and will come to their medium in a few days..

Yes, we got our ass kicked, now move on and let's go.. Those guys in the coaching room know it and the players know it too..

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

Ass absolutely destroyed by a program that is supposed to be on our level. You say deal with it? Move on? This wasn't Texas or OU last night.

You say the Coaches know this?????

untjim1995 · September 10, 2017

6 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Nu huh...Everyone says #goodfit after we get a commit and again like 20 times on NSD. It must be true. We have a lot of good fits, so we have to fit them to something. Maybe one can be a good fit at punt returning. That'd be great. Recruiting doesn't matter, I think we can win with development. .. . . . . . .

Recruiting does matter. But let's say you are decent G5 level recruit that is rated 3*. You are being recruited out of a typical TX HS by UTSA, UNT, Rice, La Tech, Arky State, and Texas State. So, this is what you can know going into the recruiting battle. Rice will get anyone who cares a ton about the degree value, as it's probably the best academic school in the region. If the kid cares about winning and going to the NFL, La tech will look really good here. If the kid wants to get away from home, for a more traditional college experience, Arkansas State looks pretty solid. So that leaves the kids who feel like they want in on the ground floor at a school who is building up their programs. UTSA has poured a lot into its program, uses its location to get P5s to come and play there and hired a guy who had recruiting connections throughout texas and Louisiana to bring talent in, as well as administrative backing to win, even if its blurring the lines on some staff members and other areas. That last part is not what we will ever do here--athletics will NEVER matter here like it does at other places. It's NEVER gonna trump Music, Fine Arts, or a value education as the primary windows here in Denton. And college coaches know it and so do TX HS coaches and parents.

Your choice here is what it always is--either follow the team because they are yours, knowing full well that the ceiling here has proven to be a 9-win season and the floor is a 1-win season. Or you give up and stop, like the other 99% of the UNT Family has (see MGC membership and the fact that 1 out of every 3800 alums donate to the athletic department). It really is just that simple...

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

Recruiting does matter. But let's say you are decent G5 level recruit that is rated 3*. You are being recruited out of a typical TX HS by UTSA, UNT, Rice, La Tech, Arky State, and Texas State. So, this is what you can know going into the recruiting battle. Rice will get anyone who cares a ton about the degree value, as it's probably the best academic school in the region. If the kid cares about winning and going to the NFL, La tech will look really good here. If the kid wants to get away from home, for a more traditional college experience, Arkansas State looks pretty solid. So that leaves the kids who feel like they want in on the ground floor at a school who is building up their programs. UTSA has poured a lot into its program, uses its location to get P5s to come and play there and hired a guy who had recruiting connections throughout texas and Louisiana to bring talent in, as well as administrative backing to win, even if its blurring the lines on some staff members and other areas. That last part is not what we will ever do here--athletics will NEVER matter here like it does at other places. It's NEVER gonna trump Music, Fine Arts, or a value education as the primary windows here in Denton. And college coaches know it and so do TX HS coaches and parents.

Your choice here is what it always is--either follow the team because they are yours, knowing full well that the ceiling here has proven to be a 9-win season and the floor is a 1-win season. Or you give up and stop, like the other 99% of the UNT Family has (see MGC membership and the fact that 1 out of every 3800 alums donate to the athletic department). It really is just that simple...

But it's simple recruiting to UNT they say on the board! but I totally agree with you with what you said.

Kids present day view UNT as back up option #3 behind the likes of #1 UT, AM, Then #2 schools like Tech.. then it's down to UNT among the others.. if you're in term 3, a lot of kids won't consider you on top of the struggles of this program and department have had

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

31 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

But it's simple recruiting to UNT they say on the board! but I totally agree with you with what you said.

Kids present day view UNT as back up option #3 behind the likes of #1 UT, AM, Then #2 schools like Tech.. then it's down to UNT among the others.. if you're in term 3, a lot of kids won't consider you on top of the struggles of this program and department have had

That's why I continue to say place a major focus on recruiting outside of Texas. DFW kids laugh at UNT. Houston kids laugh at UNT. West Texas kids laugh at UNT.

CA & Florida kids laugh at San Jose St., FAU (maybe not after Kiffin's arrival), & FIU, they aren't familiar with NTs Texas disrespect.

Ben Gooding · September 10, 2017

43 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

But it's simple recruiting to UNT they say on the board! but I totally agree with you with what you said.

Kids present day view UNT as back up option #3 behind the likes of #1 UT, AM, Then #2 schools like Tech.. then it's down to UNT among the others.. if you're in term 3, a lot of kids won't consider you on top of the struggles of this program and department have had

But yet Wilson can lights out recruit.

Dodge could recruit.

I don't want a coach. I want a recruiter with decent assistants.

It's quite fair to say that utsa has made the better hire. Far and away IMO. Everyone dismissed this because Littrell can supposedly coach. Welllllllll, it looks like Wilson can recruit AND coach. Where Wilson's coaching and/or personnel excuses? Oh, he has none because they are winning. Meanwhile, UH knocks off a P5 last night as well.

We're dog paddling in water with Olympic swimmers.

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

16 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

That's why I continue to say place a major focus on recruiting outside of Texas. DFW kids laugh at UNT. Houston kids laugh at UNT. West Texas kids laugh at UNT.

CA & Florida kids laugh at San Jose St., FAU (maybe not after Kiffin's arrival), & FIU, they aren't familiar with NTs Texas disrespect.

Why would a kid from FL/CA pass up going to there version of UNT with it being closer to home?

The problem is the product on the field but that is because of $.. as it's been said only .2% give if we get that up to 1%, that's 5 times as much and image what they could do.

3 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

But yet Wilson can lights out recruit.

Dodge could recruit.

I don't want a coach. I want a recruiter with decent assistants.

It's quite fair to say that utsa has made the better hire. Far and away IMO. Everyone dismissed this because Littrell can supposedly coach. Welllllllll, it looks like Wilson can recruit AND coach. Where Wilson's coaching and/or personnel excuses? Oh, he has none because they are winning. Meanwhile, UH knocks off a P5 last night as well.

We're dog paddling in water with Olympic swimmers.

Wilson also had a presence in the state and connections, is the biggest thing in town outside of the Spurs.. UTSA games are broadcasted as well I believe..

Dodge recruited be the other HW coaches knew him and he was a winner inside the state, literally no one knew who SL was in Texas when he was at UNC... SL had/has to repair all the crap relationships that Mac left behind.. this is apparent by the HC for Beans HS saying they hadn't seen a UNT in years and he is 10-20 miles away from UNT.

UTSA doesn't make up excuses because they understand where they are.. People here want to blow up the entire thing or fire coaches after a crappy game.. Yes, GH was bad and has been bad but he did give us the biggest offense day.. Yes it was against a Lamar team in a bad state but it's still a record day... Can't blame Langston for the OL because he literally (for not having his guys) has 0 of his guys on this team outside of possibly Mayfield and the Tyler transfer..

this whole UTSA is lights out compared to UNT is so stupid.. yes they are a conference team, but we are in 2 totally directions.. SL came in to a place that was destroyed and Wilson got a team in way better shape.. UTSA is #2 in SA, we are #9-10 because of the market.. They have alumni that donate and we don't.. if we even got 1%, that's 5 times the donations of now image the real boost to this program in terms of $ to pay coaches, etc

tmjerm · September 10, 2017

Seth and Graham have a long way to go as coaches...they got out coached and I fully expect them to learn from that. You don't become a good in game manager and game planner over night or even over a year. They're competitors. They will keep grinding and will improve. Still a believer in the staff.

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

The kids out of state haven't been exposed to years of bad mouthing NT as they go through high school. Instead, they hear jokes about their local laughingstock University. Clear advantage North Texas. :)

Edited September 10, 2017 by Got5onIt

untjim1995 · September 10, 2017

People on here act like SL just be a great coach because we are paying him the most of any coach in our history...but Chad Morris makes double his salary and has since he got started. And he knows TX HS coaches well because he was one and SMU still has name value around the state. It's not hard to see how this happened last night. They are way ahead of us in every way because they have what we don't--money, name recognition, and recruiting in-roads with TX HS coaches and parents. We have none of that...still. Maybe that changes in five years, like it did when Johnny Jones was here as our hoops coach. But it's nowhere near being settled now.

Ill say again...until someone shows us otherwise, recruiting here is not getting better against other G5s in the region because the ammo is just too strong to be used against us.

GrandGreen · September 10, 2017

McCarney was a bad hire, Dodge was even worse; but that is history. I do wonder why so many assume Littrell is a good coach. He very well maybe, but I have not seen a lot of proof that he is. Losing almost all recruiting battles with peer teams, is certainly not a positive sign. IMO, that is due to his and the staff ability to recruit, not culture, resources or any other excuse. The game plan against SMU didn't work and seemed very ill conceived.

The only significant advantage UTSA has is in coaching, not the dribble often posted. Frankly, if Littrell can't compete with CUSA and Belt teams in recruiting he is another bad hire.

The season is young, and NT is where most though they would be. A loss against SMU was not unexpected, a blow-out loss was.

Littrell is just starting his head coaching career, he should get much better. Fortunately or unfortunately he has a very favorable contract that makes him virtually fireproof for several years.

A winning season will cure a lot of early disappointment.

Green Mean · September 10, 2017

I'm a recruiting idiot so I just usually defer to the experts or people here that are really educated about how all this recruiting stuff goes. The level of recruiting does concern me that we lose out to several peer schools. At some point that's going to catch up if the coaching isn't lights out awesome. I've always said that in the position we're in...while getting an ace recruiter is great and all, I won't expect to get great recruits until we win and do it consistently for a few years. With that happening I've believed we need a coaching staff that can truly coach and develop and that means coaching up the team mightily. Boise State did and has done that for years and it's done wonders for them. I'm fine with SL not being the ace recruiter type because that's where a good staff can help with that. I guess time will tell on what this hire is going to do and we'll start seeing it the last third of the this season and next season.

I think UTSA is a really interesting subject. Many here have completely trashed on them but I give them nothing but props as they've done a great job getting off the ground and the thing that they have is they didn't have any history prior which means no history of just being losers and putrid. While we've been around forever our history tells the general public and recruits that we stink and we have that losers mentality and culture. Kids are just going gravitate towards something like UTSA IMO and I Just think the way they've started the whole program has been nothing short of impressive and nowthey are not only in a conference with us in just a few short years it looks like they have totally surpassed us program wise and most importantly perception wise IMO.