This is all McCarney's fault!

untjim1995 · September 10, 2017

6 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

The biggest issue is the lack of support this school has given athletics for the entire history of the school until recently.

I'd say RV was a bigger issue than McCarney. During his tenure we went to five bowl games and it was STILL the worst 15 years in UNT football history.

This.

People act like it's some easy thing to recruit kids here while competing with them against schools with more academic prestige (SMU, Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa), schools with better football history in the last decade (LT, Arky state, and ULL) or schools with better reputations with TX HS Coaches and parents (everyone).

The only way to beat this is to do what johnny Jones did with the hoops program. You coach up what you have and you have a wide open door for transfers to come here, until you finally get the attention of the TX HS coaches and parents of recruits. There is no other way to do it at North Texas. History proves it--doesn't matter what conference we are in, doesn't matter what stadium we play in, doesn't matter who are coach or AD is...we are on the bottom of the TX recruiting totem pole for a reason.

Cr1028 · September 10, 2017

15 minutes ago, Ryan Munthe said:

Right? We had a foundation after HoD and Mac lost it and didn't recruit. Here we are.

That foundation was built largely on Todd Dodge recruits that exhausted their eligibility in that game.

Ryan Munthe · September 10, 2017

2 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

This.

People act like it's some easy thing to recruit kids here while competing with them against schools with more academic prestige (SMU, Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa), schools with better football history in the last decade (LT, Arky state, and ULL) or schools with better reputations with TX HS Coaches and parents (everyone).

The only way to beat this is to do what johnny Jones did with the hoops program. You coach up what you have and you have a wide open door for transfers to come here, until you finally get the attention of the TX HS coaches and parents of recruits. There is no other way to do it at North Texas. History proves it--doesn't matter what conference we are in, doesn't matter what stadium we play in, doesn't matter who are coach or AD is...we are on the bottom of the TX recruiting totem pole for a reason.

Yep. That's why I was okay with Mac doing his thing, but he couldn't even fill a roster in the end. That's just bull.

Silent Eagle · September 10, 2017

3 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

This.

People act like it's some easy thing to recruit kids here while competing with them against schools with more academic prestige (SMU, Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa), schools with better football history in the last decade (LT, Arky state, and ULL) or schools with better reputations with TX HS Coaches and parents (everyone).

The only way to beat this is to do what johnny Jones did with the hoops program. You coach up what you have and you have a wide open door for transfers to come here, until you finally get the attention of the TX HS coaches and parents of recruits. There is no other way to do it at North Texas. History proves it--doesn't matter what conference we are in, doesn't matter what stadium we play in, doesn't matter who are coach or AD is...we are on the bottom of the TX recruiting totem pole for a reason.

One eyed Danny once thought like you do...

Rudy · September 10, 2017

But Mac has a National Championship ring.

keith · September 10, 2017

7 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

This.

People act like it's some easy thing to recruit kids here while competing with them against schools with more academic prestige (SMU, Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa), schools with better football history in the last decade (LT, Arky state, and ULL) or schools with better reputations with TX HS Coaches and parents (everyone).

The only way to beat this is to do what johnny Jones did with the hoops program. You coach up what you have and you have a wide open door for transfers to come here, until you finally get the attention of the TX HS coaches and parents of recruits. There is no other way to do it at North Texas. History proves it--doesn't matter what conference we are in, doesn't matter what stadium we play in, doesn't matter who are coach or AD is...we are on the bottom of the TX recruiting totem pole for a reason.

Phew, for a moment there I thought you were going to say it's hard at North Texas.

untjim1995 · September 10, 2017

Just now, Silent Eagle said:

One eyed Danny once thought like you do...

Actually, he didn't at all when he first got here. He was sold on the idea that this was going to be a USF starter kit--big public school in a big metro area. Uber positive everywhere he went about North Texas. And then recruiting here at a new stadium in a better conference after winning 9 games and a HoD Bowl victory meant squat to recruits in this state.

Why? His offense was boring as hell, but TX HS Coaches and parents still felt that there were other schools better for Johnny and Joe than we were. And it literally drove Dan McCarney insane.

Silent Eagle · September 10, 2017

Just now, untjim1995 said:

Actually, he didn't at all when he first got here. He was sold on the idea that this was going to be a USF starter kit--big public school in a big metro area. Uber positive everywhere he went about North Texas. And then recruiting here at a new stadium in a better conference after winning 9 games and a HoD Bowl victory meant squat to recruits in this state.

Why? His offense was boring as hell, but TX HS Coaches and parents still felt that there were other schools better for Johnny and Joe than we were. And it literally drove Dan McCarney insane.

His arrogance of thinking his assistant coach championship ring would have kids rubbing one out at the thought of playing for him is what did him in.

Ryan Munthe · September 10, 2017

3 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Actually, he didn't at all when he first got here. He was sold on the idea that this was going to be a USF starter kit--big public school in a big metro area. Uber positive everywhere he went about North Texas. And then recruiting here at a new stadium in a better conference after winning 9 games and a HoD Bowl victory meant squat to recruits in this state.

Why? His offense was boring as hell, but TX HS Coaches and parents still felt that there were other schools better for Johnny and Joe than we were. And it literally drove Dan McCarney insane.

This is the perfect encapsulation of what happened. I could never describe exactly what happened but you put it eloquently.

TheTastyGreek · September 10, 2017

1 minute ago, Silent Eagle said:

His arrogance of thinking his assistant coach championship ring would have kids rubbing one out at the thought of playing for him is what did him in.

Meh... Followed up the guy who was arrogant enough to think his high school staff was ready to step up and take on D1 college football, and who thought a "football plan" was all he needed no matter what level he coached at.

We've had a lot of idiots run our teams. Benford, Binder Betty... Plenty of arrogance, ignorance, and incompetence in varying mix and measure in our hires.

untjim1995 · September 10, 2017

Just now, Silent Eagle said:

His arrogance of thinking his assistant coach championship ring would have kids rubbing one out at the thought of playing for him is what did him in.

I agree with you...I think it just shocked him that he couldn't get recruits to give us a second or third look. But other than dodge's first class when he was a TX HS legend, as well as one of Dickey's classes that had some major talent, recruiting here is almost always between below average and dead-ass last. That's what happens when you use a program for decades as a way to bring in cash and nothing else. Obviously, it's changed now, but the recruiting isn't getting magically fixed here until we either win bigger or we hire somebody that has great name recognition to attract the attention of the recruits in this state.

Just now, TheTastyGreek said:

Meh... Followed up the guy who was arrogant enough to think his high school staff was ready to step up and take on D1 college football, and who thought a "football plan" was all he needed no matter what level he coached at.

We've had a lot of idiots run our teams. Benford, Binder Betty... Plenty of arrogance, ignorance, and incompetence in varying mix and measure in our hires.

They were almost all RV hires or extensions...

BillySee58 · September 10, 2017

Mccarney's two worst classes, according to other FBS coaches, were 2012 and 2013. Those guys are almost all gone, save for a few RS Seniors. Mccarney's best two classes, according to other FBS coaches, were 2014 and 2015 and those guys are the upperclassmen on this team.

Littrell's classes have not featured as many other FBS offers as Mccarney's last two and have only been declining in offers so far. 2018 is currently at 23% of commits having at least 2 other FBS offers. That would be the lowest for us since the alarmingly unproductive class of 2012.

I am far from giving up on Littrell, but any shortcomings we have at this point can almost assuredly be attributed at least in part to his roster management, recruiting, and coaching.

15 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Obviously, it's changed now, but the recruiting isn't getting magically fixed here until we either win bigger or we hire somebody that has great name recognition to attract the attention of the recruits in this state.

Or, I know this seems like a foreign thought on here, we actually found a coach who was a good recruiter and could coach too. Name recognition isn't a necessity. Do you think high school juniors in Texas honestly knew who Frank Wilson was in January 2016? The ones who were not already being recruited by him at LSU.

Littrell has never been seen as a recruiter. You can look on 247 and see the commits he was the lead recruiter on prior to getting this job. It is early on in his tenure, but one of the most unsettling things to me about Littrell is his attempts at being the smartest guy in the room. With recruiting guys who he thinks fit his system and no one else wants, but will make him look smarter if he hits on those recruits. And also on-field coaching. Like running that swing pass out of his own end zone tonight.

meanrob · September 10, 2017

11 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Mccarney's two worst classes, according to other FBS coaches, were 2012 and 2013. Those guys are almost all gone, save for a few RS Seniors. Mccarney's best two classes, according to other FBS coaches, were 2014 and 2015 and those guys are the upperclassmen on this team.

Littrell's classes have not featured as many other FBS offers as Mccarney's last two and have only been declining in offers so far. 2018 is currently at 23% of commits having at least 2 other FBS offers. That would be the lowest for us since the alarmingly unproductive class of 2012.

I am far from giving up on Littrell, but any shortcomings we have at this point can almost assuredly be attributed at least in part to his roster management, recruiting, and coaching.

Or, I know this seems like a foreign thought on here, we actually found a coach who was a good recruiter and could coach too. Name recognition isn't a necessity. Do you think high school juniors in Texas honestly knew who Frank Wilson was in January 2016? The ones who were not already being recruited by him at LSU.

Littrell has never been seen as a recruiter. You can look on 247 and see the commits he was the lead recruiter on prior to getting this job. It is early on in his tenure, but one of the most unsettling things to me about Littrell is his attempts at being the smartest guy in the room. With recruiting guys who he thinks fit his system and no one else wants, but will make him look smarter if he hits on those recruits. And also on-field coaching. Like running that swing pass out of his own end zone tonight.

I completely agree with this but there was a 0% chance Mac was going to change his ways. I can't say that about Littrell. I think you're right on with the "smarter" theory and that only works for specific players, not whole classes.

I think you can get really bogged down in picking out specific bad calls. I was more concerned why we went away from the quick passes and why we didn't go more uptempo when those short passes were working. Or why we didn't go downfield earlier.

Either way, I think we are a better team than last year but we'll start finding out after Iowa.

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

SMU did not out athlete NT tonight. Sutton obviously, but no way in hell did I see a better team across the board wearing blue. Poor coaching performance by the head coach & two knuckle head coordinators....

BillySee58 · September 10, 2017

4 minutes ago, meanrob said:

I completely agree with this but there was a 0% chance Mac was going to change his ways. I can't say that about Littrell. I think you're right on with the "smarter" theory and that only works for specific players, not whole classes.

I think you can get really bogged down in picking out specific bad calls. I was more concerned why we went away from the quick passes and why we didn't go more uptempo when those short passes were working. Or why we didn't go downfield earlier.

Either way, I think we are a better team than last year but we'll start finding out after Iowa.

Oh, for sure. I'm really hoping that Littrell adapts and changes what he needs to in order to be successful here. Because even though it seems like a popular idea on here that he won't be here long before he moves up to a P5 job, I think he's going to be here a while based on the resumes of the G5 coaches who actually did get hired by P5s.

And yeah, I don't get bogged down by individual calls, just was pointing one out as an example of something I was referencing. Like I said, I'm not giving up on Littrell but I think he's at the point now where shortcomings by our program now and in the future can be attributed more to him than Mccarney.

GMG24 · September 10, 2017

1 minute ago, BillySee58 said:

Oh, for sure. I'm really hoping that Littrell adapts and changes what he needs to in order to be successful here. Because even though it seems like a popular idea on here that he won't be here long before he moves up to a P5 job, I think he's going to be here a while based on the resumes of the G5 coaches who actually did get hired by P5s.

And yeah, I don't get bogged down by individual calls, just was pointing one out as an example of something I was referencing. Like I said, I'm not giving up on Littrell but I think he's at the point now where shortcomings by our program now and in the future can be attributed more to him than Mccarney.

Here is what I'd like to see more of, Tunnel Screen, Vertical Concepts, Now routes (one step get the ball), PA pass using Wilson and Smith as decoys, giving JG 2/3 Fades a quarter (hopefully remind him to line up on the top of the #s so he has a chance), More QB run game incorporated

Id like to see less Wild cat with Wilson bc we can't run block to save our lives, less RB swings after he motions, Mason Fine getting buried even after he's let the ball go.

meanrob · September 10, 2017

1 minute ago, BillySee58 said:

Oh, for sure. I'm really hoping that Littrell adapts and changes what he needs to in order to be successful here. Because even though it seems like a popular idea on here that he won't be here long before he moves up to a P5 job, I think he's going to be here a while based on the resumes of the G5 coaches who actually did get hired by P5s.

And yeah, I don't get bogged down by individual calls, just was pointing one out as an example of something I was referencing. Like I said, I'm not giving up on Littrell but I think he's at the point now where shortcomings by our program now and in the future can be attributed more to him than Mccarney.

I still blame Mac but in all fairness I despise Mac. To me, Littrell never seemed like the high energy guy that was going to get this thing turned around quickly. Mac leaving the cupboard bare didn't help. That's not giving a pass to Littrell on his recruiting, he needs to have a good class this year. I just prepared myself for a slow build.

If Brohm at WKU was the standard, Littrell ain't going anywhere for a while.

TheTastyGreek · September 10, 2017

Just now, meanrob said:

I still blame Mac but in all fairness I despise Mac. To me, Littrell never seemed like the high energy guy that was going to get this thing turned around quickly. Mac leaving the cupboard bare didn't help. That's not giving a pass to Littrell on his recruiting, he needs to have a good class this year. I just prepared myself for a slow build.

If Brohm at WKU was the standard, Littrell ain't going anywhere for a while.

Based on our last 13 years, I think we may have just flat out had our cupboard stolen and nobody bothered to report it to the cops.

untjim1995 · September 10, 2017

11 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

SMU did not out athlete NT tonight. Sutton obviously, but no way in hell did I see a better team across the board wearing blue. Poor coaching performance by the head coach & two knuckle head coordinators....

You better hope it was talent and how it's been developed because these coaches are here for a long time. Otherwise, we will have another disastrous run for the next 3 years and will again be hiring someone new to try and build something here.

Just now, TheTastyGreek said:

Based on our last 13 years, I think we may have just flat out had our cupboard stolen and nobody bothered to report it to the cops.

I think a cupboard was never built and we just left food out on the counter tops--with an unlocked door to walk in at anytime you want.

shootermcgavin44 · September 10, 2017

42 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Mccarney's two worst classes, according to other FBS coaches, were 2012 and 2013. Those guys are almost all gone, save for a few RS Seniors. Mccarney's best two classes, according to other FBS coaches, were 2014 and 2015 and those guys are the upperclassmen on this team.

Littrell's classes have not featured as many other FBS offers as Mccarney's last two and have only been declining in offers so far. 2018 is currently at 23% of commits having at least 2 other FBS offers. That would be the lowest for us since the alarmingly unproductive class of 2012.

I am far from giving up on Littrell, but any shortcomings we have at this point can almost assuredly be attributed at least in part to his roster management, recruiting, and coaching.

Or, I know this seems like a foreign thought on here, we actually found a coach who was a good recruiter and could coach too. Name recognition isn't a necessity. Do you think high school juniors in Texas honestly knew who Frank Wilson was in January 2016? The ones who were not already being recruited by him at LSU.

Littrell has never been seen as a recruiter. You can look on 247 and see the commits he was the lead recruiter on prior to getting this job. It is early on in his tenure, but one of the most unsettling things to me about Littrell is his attempts at being the smartest guy in the room. With recruiting guys who he thinks fit his system and no one else wants, but will make him look smarter if he hits on those recruits. And also on-field coaching. Like running that swing pass out of his own end zone tonight.

No doubt I believe Littrell can coach. But its always about the johnny and the joes more than the X's and O's

meanrob · September 10, 2017

Just now, TheTastyGreek said:

Based on our last 13 years, I think we may have just flat out had our cupboard stolen and nobody bothered to report it to the cops.

Don't know how much a cupboard is worth but it's not near the millions Mac stole from us. And he's in a rocking chair somewhere still thinking it's North Texas' fault.

TheTastyGreek · September 10, 2017

1 minute ago, meanrob said:

Don't know how much a cupboard is worth but it's not near the millions Mac stole from us. And he's in a rocking chair somewhere still thinking it's North Texas' fault.

At least Mac had the decency to steal his million in chunks instead of all at once.

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

19 minutes ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

No doubt I believe Littrell can coach. But its always about the johnny and the joes more than the X's and O's

He got schooled tonight, imo...

Ben Gooding · September 10, 2017

2 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

This.

People act like it's some easy thing to recruit kids here while competing with them against schools with more academic prestige (SMU, Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa), schools with better football history in the last decade (LT, Arky state, and ULL) or schools with better reputations with TX HS Coaches and parents (everyone).

The only way to beat this is to do what johnny Jones did with the hoops program. You coach up what you have and you have a wide open door for transfers to come here, until you finally get the attention of the TX HS coaches and parents of recruits. There is no other way to do it at North Texas. History proves it--doesn't matter what conference we are in, doesn't matter what stadium we play in, doesn't matter who are coach or AD is...we are on the bottom of the TX recruiting totem pole for a reason.

Nu huh...Everyone says #goodfit after we get a commit and again like 20 times on NSD. It must be true. We have a lot of good fits, so we have to fit them to something. Maybe one can be a good fit at punt returning. That'd be great. Recruiting doesn't matter, I think we can win with development. .. . . . . . .

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

6 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Nu huh...Everyone says #goodfit after we get a commit and again like 20 times on NSD. It must be true. We have a lot of good fits, so we have to fit them to something. Maybe one can be a good fit at punt returning. That'd be great. Recruiting doesn't matter, I think we can win with development. .. . . . . . .

We do have a lot of good fit kids, but they are young and are performing (Nic Smith, Darden, Rico, Hambone, Lawerence, etc)... the problem areas like OL, none of them are playing and the current guys are not playing well.. Yes, a current "system guy" like Mayfield are playing but its having someone with some college experience vs a true freshman...

Also, I've said it before.. But if recruiting is so easy (as you seem to believe) then why don't you and whoever else write up a script and email it/maill to the staff? Better yet go up and meet with them on Tuesday nights and help them out when they are on the phones talking with recruits? I even bet they will give you a sideline pass and hire you if you're as good as you have claimed to be.