The problem with the UNT offense

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

He got smashed on blitzes, I never saw an Olineman get straight up beat tonight while pass blocking....

Edited September 10, 2017 by Got5onIt

GrandGreen · September 10, 2017

15 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

1) Play calling. From the get go, SMU dared and I mean absolutely triple dog dared us to beat them in the air. And it never ended. They were shading safeties literally all night. Less than a handful of plays I saw a true cover 2-with a true 2 deep. It was shaded with the SS pinching down hard on top of the LB's or shuffling over to usually the field side of the field. It doesn't matter how many yards MF had. That is completely irrelevant.

Problem, is that NT played basically the same defense. It was like both coaching staffs thought their opponents' run games were key based on a game against an overmatched lower division team.

UNTLifer · September 10, 2017

2 hours ago, UNT90 said:

I would expect this exact post from your blind... self. Fine isn't allowed/can't throw the deep ball, and there obviously isn't another QB on the roster any better. After 2 years, that is a recruiting failure. You do realize Fine is a Littrel recruit, right?

But then again, RV would still be here if you had anything to say about it.

I expect the same from you. Fine is 32-47 for 424 yards, hits Guyton with a perfectly thrown deep ball, makes throws on the run, etc.. and you blame him. I am well aware Fine is a SL recruit and he is far from failing. You prove your bias and ignorance every time you open your mouth. You make claims abojt me that you can't back up including your RV comment. You have zero solutions, and bring nothing to the table. We win and you are nowhere to be found on here. We lose, and you show up pounding your chest like the typical know it all.

But then again, you are a fair weather fan any way. Enjoy TCU.

2 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Let's review Fine's stats at the end of the night.

The idiocy in this fan base is stunning. Keep believing in fairy tails, folks.

32-47 for 424 yards, 3 TD's and 2 Int's

Your idiocy/bias is limitless.

2 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Well, my apologies. Thank you for being on the right side of history. Expect Lifer to now stalk you to eternity.

You should really let your obsession with me go, d-bag.

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

6 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I expect the same from you. Fine is 32-47 for 424 yards, hits Guyton with a perfectly thrown deep ball, makes throws on the run, etc.. and you blame him. I am well aware Fine is a SL recruit and he is far from failing. You prove your bias and ignorance every time you open your mouth. You make claims abojt me that you can't back up including your RV comment. You have zero solutions, and bring nothing to the table. We win and you are nowhere to be found on here. We lose, and you show up pounding your chest like the typical know it all.

But then again, you are a fair weather fan any way. Enjoy TCU.

32-47 for 424 yards, 3 TD's and 2 Int's

Your idiocy/bias is limitless.

Fine wasn't the issue tonight, imo, but the offense only scored 2 TDs by the end of the 3rd.

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

12 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

Fine wasn't the issue tonight, imo, but the offense only scored 2 TDs by the end of the 3rd.

How is this Masons fault?

Did you not see the countless number of times they had a man coming off the edge that the RB had to pick up, which was hit or miss? Did you see how terrible this OL was? They couldn't get even get 1 yard?

How many times did we run the same play or nearly identical play on 3rd and 5+ with the a WR to the flat and a WR going deeper but the route wasn't developed in time.. Yes Fine had issues tonite, but he far from the biggest problem.. Yes he had 2 INTs but that was him trying to come back, he proved he can throw the deep ball and that alone gives me hope for Fine, because last year he could not make that throw at all..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The biggest problem was the Special teams.. 2 muffed punts, and THE DUMBEST KR call that you will ever see... The first muffed punt was waved offed for Fair Catch interference, which I have to say good job on that PR for seeing the guy in front of him and walking into him to get the 15 yards knowing you get the ball back as well.. The 2nd muffed punt was stupid and did 0 to help the defense which had come out of half time and stopped SMU (I believe in a 3 and out)... The reserve KR was stupid to do so deep in our territory,..

The defense got burned by Sutton, but he is a Rd 1 WR in the NFL draft, and we have seen it first hand.. 1 of his 4 TDs was on a perfect throw to end the 1st half, another TD he broke out of a tackle and 3rd was a blown coverage, the 4th was just a 50/50 ball he got going up vs Hall, who has atleast inches on plus probably 20+ lbs... Yes the other WR had a solid game, but again he didn't do much.. Hall was getting under Sutton's skin which led to a Personal foul, but Brooks did NOT do anything vs Sutton.. I'm sorry but Brooks has not looked like a 1st Team Preseason player at all.. Tackling again is a HUGE problem for this team...

The WRs were biggest surprise tonite.. Guyton and Darden had GREAT games.. Fine looked solid but still had 2 INTs and missed a big throw to Guyton down the sideline on 4th down.. Lawerence had a solid game.. UNT also, allowed SMU to change out defensive players whenever they wanted even when UNT was not making any subs, which wasn't often since it seemed as if we were changing formations after nearly every single play... GH or Mason needs to point it out that the other team is changing out personal and go up call a quick play for a free 5 yards... Wilson had an off night, yes it sucks but the man has been reliable for us.. the OL was bad, but mason didn't help with pointing out some of the potential blitzers either.

Yes the L hurts but us finding potential big time players in Lawerence (big game vs a D1 defense), Darden locked down the PR spot and had multiple TDs, and Guyton showing he can be a guy to stretch defenses is big too. Also, Fine has now matched/topped last years TD mark for him as well...

Ben Gooding · September 10, 2017

11 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

How is this Masons fault?

Did you not see the countless number of times they had a man coming off the edge that the RB had to pick up, which was hit or miss? Did you see how terrible this OL was? They couldn't get even get 1 yard?

How many times did we run the same play or nearly identical play on 3rd and 5+ with the a WR to the flat and a WR going deeper but the route wasn't developed in time.. Yes Fine had issues tonite, but he far from the biggest problem.. Yes he had 2 INTs but that was him trying to come back, he proved he can throw the deep ball and that alone gives me hope for Fine, because last year he could not make that throw at all..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The biggest problem was the Special teams.. 2 muffed punts, and THE DUMBEST KR call that you will ever see... The first muffed punt was waved offed for Fair Catch interference, which I have to say good job on that PR for seeing the guy in front of him and walking into him to get the 15 yards knowing you get the ball back as well.. The 2nd muffed punt was stupid and did 0 to help the defense which had come out of half time and stopped SMU (I believe in a 3 and out)... The reserve KR was stupid to do so deep in our territory,..

The defense got burned by Sutton, but he is a Rd 1 WR in the NFL draft, and we have seen it first hand.. 1 of his 4 TDs was on a perfect throw to end the 1st half, another TD he broke out of a tackle and 3rd was a blown coverage, the 4th was just a 50/50 ball he got going up vs Hall, who has atleast inches on plus probably 20+ lbs... Yes the other WR had a solid game, but again he didn't do much.. Hall was getting under Sutton's skin which led to a Personal foul, but Brooks did NOT do anything vs Sutton.. I'm sorry but Brooks has not looked like a 1st Team Preseason player at all.. Tackling again is a HUGE problem for this team...

The WRs were biggest surprise tonite.. Guyton and Darden had GREAT games.. Fine looked solid but still had 2 INTs and missed a big throw to Guyton down the sideline on 4th down.. Lawerence had a solid game.. UNT also, allowed SMU to change out defensive players whenever they wanted even when UNT was not making any subs, which wasn't often since it seemed as if we were changing formations after nearly every single play... GH or Mason needs to point it out that the other team is changing out personal and go up call a quick play for a free 5 yards... Wilson had an off night, yes it sucks but the man has been reliable for us.. the OL was bad, but mason didn't help with pointing out some of the potential blitzers either.

Yes the L hurts but us finding potential big time players in Lawerence (big game vs a D1 defense), Darden locked down the PR spot and had multiple TDs, and Guyton showing he can be a guy to stretch defenses is big too. Also, Fine has now matched/topped last years TD mark for him as well...

That 4th and 1 call was a bad play call. Plain bad. No other way around it. We, up to that point and later throughout the night, had 0 interior push to speak of to warrant that call. It was bad. It was a THIS is what we're doing and I HOPE it works kind of call. Dumb.

Mason Fine, for his height and weight, is a decent QB. Bob Stoops said when Fine was in high school if he was 2 or 3 inches taller he'd have 25 FBS offers and now, with time to actually see Fine in action for a good while, I believe it. He has a good arm, decent accuracy, tough kid, plays hard, but his measurables are his problem and they come with no solution. And that is why is seeped through the cracks and landed at UNT.

And please quit talking about Mason Fine's stats. It was against FCS and before the 4th quarter even hit tonight, vs 2nd and 3rd stringers. I know we want to cling to something that has positivity to it, but that's not it. The WR's aren't really it tonight either. They, like Fine, were up against the same 2nd and 3rd stringers. Do you think it was just a coincidence that we starting racking up yardage and points at the same time? Were the UNT players like, 'Oh, it's 52-17, we need to really turn it up now'. No, of course not.

Sutton was left alone waaaaaaaaaay too much. Most of his catches were 1 on 1. His TD catches were all 1 on 1. In DC's defense, help was supposed to be there on one of his long TD's, but was late. The rest of it falls smack on the coaches. Can't leave superior players out on an island with avg to sub avg players and expect good outcomes.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Ben Gooding

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

12 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

And please quit talking about Mason Fine's stats. It was against FCS and before the 4th quarter even hit tonight, vs 2nd and 3rd stringers. I know we want to cling to something that has positivity to it, but that's not it. The WR's aren't really it tonight either. They, like Fine, were up against the same 2nd and 3rd stringers. Do you think it was just a coincidence that we starting racking up yardage and points at the same time? Were the UNT players like, 'Oh, it's 52-17, we need to really turn it up now'. No, of course not.

Sutton was left alone waaaaaaaaaay too much. Most of his catches were 1 on 1. His TD catches were all 1 on 1. In DC's defense, help was supposed to be there on one of his long TD's, but was late. The rest of it falls smack on the coaches. Can't leave superior players out on an island with avg to sub avg players and expect good outcomes.

I agreed with the first half... and I do agree his stats are against FCS and back ups, just like most of his noteworthy production last year.. But the kid still lead effective drives to open the game, not his fault he has a bad/inexperienced OC... SL should have brought in GH to be the QB coach, but needed a guy that had been on OC someplace before, sadly I'm starting to wonder about GH and play calling.. I do agree about the play calling, how it seems to change when the 2/3rd team comes in.. No idea if GH changes the play call or if this OL just struggles that much... I pointed it out last year that Fine only performed vs the backups and its very worrisome, and this is why I would like to see the likes of Pearson or Izzy to get a look, which tonite would have been the perfect time too...

We can say the WRs were or weren't great either tonite, but we saw production/potential production.. Darden had a huge game and should be the offensive MVP, Guyton played well vs his first D1 defense.. Lawerence had a solid game as well after playing sparingly last year and after a big game vs Lamar... Darden HOPEFULLY locked down the PR spot and we will not have to deal with Jenkins or Smiley out there.. I don't know why but I feel way more comfortable as a fan with Darden taking a PR than either of them, but I would think a lot of fans that are aware of the situation would agree.

Got5onIt · September 10, 2017

6 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

How is this Masons fault?

Did you not see the countless number of times they had a man coming off the edge that the RB had to pick up, which was hit or miss? Did you see how terrible this OL was? They couldn't get even get 1 yard?

How many times did we run the same play or nearly identical play on 3rd and 5+ with the a WR to the flat and a WR going deeper but the route wasn't developed in time.. Yes Fine had issues tonite, but he far from the biggest problem.. Yes he had 2 INTs but that was him trying to come back, he proved he can throw the deep ball and that alone gives me hope for Fine, because last year he could not make that throw at all..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The biggest problem was the Special teams.. 2 muffed punts, and THE DUMBEST KR call that you will ever see... The first muffed punt was waved offed for Fair Catch interference, which I have to say good job on that PR for seeing the guy in front of him and walking into him to get the 15 yards knowing you get the ball back as well.. The 2nd muffed punt was stupid and did 0 to help the defense which had come out of half time and stopped SMU (I believe in a 3 and out)... The reserve KR was stupid to do so deep in our territory,..

The defense got burned by Sutton, but he is a Rd 1 WR in the NFL draft, and we have seen it first hand.. 1 of his 4 TDs was on a perfect throw to end the 1st half, another TD he broke out of a tackle and 3rd was a blown coverage, the 4th was just a 50/50 ball he got going up vs Hall, who has atleast inches on plus probably 20+ lbs... Yes the other WR had a solid game, but again he didn't do much.. Hall was getting under Sutton's skin which led to a Personal foul, but Brooks did NOT do anything vs Sutton.. I'm sorry but Brooks has not looked like a 1st Team Preseason player at all.. Tackling again is a HUGE problem for this team...

The WRs were biggest surprise tonite.. Guyton and Darden had GREAT games.. Fine looked solid but still had 2 INTs and missed a big throw to Guyton down the sideline on 4th down.. Lawerence had a solid game.. UNT also, allowed SMU to change out defensive players whenever they wanted even when UNT was not making any subs, which wasn't often since it seemed as if we were changing formations after nearly every single play... GH or Mason needs to point it out that the other team is changing out personal and go up call a quick play for a free 5 yards... Wilson had an off night, yes it sucks but the man has been reliable for us.. the OL was bad, but mason didn't help with pointing out some of the potential blitzers either.

Yes the L hurts but us finding potential big time players in Lawerence (big game vs a D1 defense), Darden locked down the PR spot and had multiple TDs, and Guyton showing he can be a guy to stretch defenses is big too. Also, Fine has now matched/topped last years TD mark for him as well...

I'm not blaming him. He ran the plays that was called. My wrath is focused on a certain Red Raider who Jason Garretted last year by learning on the fly and was completely schooled by the SMU defensive staff last night. After 10 quick points, SMUs defense made adjustments and stifled NTs offense to zilch until the end of the 3rd quarter (game was all but over by then). Absolutely inexcusable.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Got5onIt

KingDL1 · September 10, 2017

Same BS just a different year!

Unfortunately UNT90 is mostly right, but this starts right at the top.

We need to expect better recruiting, better coaching, better results.

We should have been at the very least competitive with SMU yesterday, instead we looked like a sorry FCS program. we could have lost 70+ yesterday.

BTG_Fan1 · September 10, 2017

4 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

I'm not blaming him. He ran the plays that was called. My wrath is focused on a certain Red Raider who Jason Garretted last year by learning on the fly and was completely schooled by the SMU defensive staff last night. After 10 quick points, SMUs defense made adjustments and stifled NTs offense to zilch until the end of the 3rd quarter (game was all but over by then). Absolutely inexcusable.

My bad if it wasn't clear, wasn't saying you were blaming Fine, but I do agree these long stretches of bad play calling is worrisome and was a major problem last year.

UNTLifer · September 10, 2017

11 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

And please quit talking about Mason Fine's stats. It was against FCS and before the 4th quarter even hit tonight, vs 2nd and 3rd stringers. I know we want to cling to something that has positivity to it, but that's not it. The WR's aren't really it tonight either. They, like Fine, were up against the same 2nd and 3rd stringers. Do you think it was just a coincidence that we starting racking up yardage and points at the same time? Were the UNT players like, 'Oh, it's 52-17, we need to really turn it up now'. No, of course not.

Sutton was left alone waaaaaaaaaay too much. Most of his catches were 1 on 1. His TD catches were all 1 on 1. In DC's defense, help was supposed to be there on one of his long TD's, but was late. The rest of it falls smack on the coaches. Can't leave superior players out on an island with avg to sub avg players and expect good outcomes.

B.S. on your Fine comments. Read emmitt's breakdown of his stats in another thread.

Ben Gooding · September 10, 2017

7 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

B.S. on your Fine comments. Read emmitt's breakdown of his stats in another thread.

It was 52-17. Fine tacked on 200 yards of passing along with 2 passing touchdowns in meaningless garbage time vs mostly back ups. See: 2016 vs MTSU. Very similar statistical performance. Explain to me how that is BS.

Ben Gooding · September 10, 2017

So I see I was -1, but not explained anything...

Daddy Dumpsalot · September 10, 2017

19 hours ago, UNT90 said:

Is at QB. Not one pass over 20 yards the entire 1st half. Not one.

9 and sometimes 10 guys in the box. And the routes most plays don't have a receiver more than 10 yards from the LOS.

If anyone is expecting more than 4 or 5 wins outta this thing, you are delusional.

Put in the kid from Ok St if you don't think Fine can throw deep. He can't be worse.

I disagree...sort of. I've followed this program for years. The years we've done well are hands down when we have a stout offensive line, which in turn gives our receivers time to let the plays develop. I watched last week as well as this week and our O-Line is bad. Our QB was either running or waiting to step into the pocket every passing play, hence the short passes. I fear this season will not be good unless we can fix our O-Line and quickly.