Mexico, DACA, etc.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 5, 2017

This is a topic that hits close to home for me because my wife is from Mexico, is here legally, but has relatives and other friends here that are not. In fact, she has nephews and nieces that fit under the DACA rules.

I have a couple of observations. The first thing I want to say is, both sides have points, good points that need to be made...but, neither side is going to listen to the other. So we have what we have.

Let me start with my nephews and nieces who were brought here by one of my wife's brothers who wouldn't wait for his papers, and keeps himself (for no good reason) in jeopardy of being deported. Immigrants like him - who could have easily qualified to get here legally the way one of his older brothers did, and my wife and one of her sisters - I don't really feel much sympathy. Their family was well off enough to meet the qualifications to enter legally, and he should have waited like his brother, sister, and my wife.

By not doing so, and bringing his son and daughter, he put them in jeopardy as well. For reasons I will never understand, the nephew and niece have chosen not to go to college; but, they do have jobs. They came here when they were seven and one year old, respectively. The nephew spent two years in school in Mexico, the rest here. The niece simply was raised and went all the way through school here.

Especially for my niece, she literally would be lost living in the little ranch area where my wife's family lives if she gets sent back. I'm not saying that to draw any sympathy. Her dad, my brother-in-law, went in with both eyes open when he chose - and has consistently chosen - to not follow American immigration laws.

I will feel bad for my niece if she gets deported, but...it will not be completely devastating to her. If she goes back, she's got a better education than probably 90% of the kids her age in that area of Mexico. She speaks Spanish and English fluently. She would have no trouble going to most big cities in Mexico and finding work.

My wife's family is from Guanajuato, and there is an artsy tourist city there called San Miguel de Allende. It is a city where you can easily get along if you aren't fluent in Spanish. Many Canadian and American ex-pats are there. My wife has a sister who keeps an apartment there, and they have a store front they lease out there. So, if deported, my niece will be fine.

As for those who are in her situation but do not have a well off enough family back in Mexico, it might be tougher. Might.

They still have the benefit of an American education. And, as much as we bash it here, it is light years beyond what most kids get in Mexico - if they get any at all in Mexico.

And, that brings me to my second point, I have a huge beef with people who criticize America over this issue, saying we are racist, trying to throw out poor, brown-skinned people, etc. If we are racist, then what is the Mexican government? The Mexican government is filled with "brown-skinned people" who refuse to do anything for their fellow "brown-skinned people," who happen to be poor as well.

Which is worse, us enforcing our immigration laws or Mexico for ignoring its own citizens in the first place so that they feel like they had to come up here?

Mexico is horribly irresponsible when it comes to its own people, natural resources, and economy. That is not the fault of the United States. Millions of their citizens are here illegally because the Mexican government sucks, not because of anything we've done. Worse, the Mexican government doesn't care that it sucks. They flaunt it as some sort of badge of honor.

So, point two, I hate and reject the notion that we are somehow worse than the Mexican government who purposely won't take care of their own citizens in the first place when they have the natural resources to be able to do so, but choose to let a few wealthy individuals and politicos look out for themselves to the detriment of all else. They are the main problem, not our immigration laws!

Third point, and this concerns jobs. It is a completely false notion, in my opinion, to assume that losing illegals will somehow hurt the economy; especially in the construction trade. My dad's family in Tulsa have been homebuilders since the 1960s. And, guess what? They've somehow done it with a legal, American work force.

I reject the stupid argument that "home prices will go up." Uh...if you hadn't noticed, home prices have already gone up - even with immigrant labor! Builders are paying immigrant less than they would American workers, but home prices are still higher. The builders and their subcontractors are paying less and pocketing more than before.

You tell me whether that is right or wrong. We used to have strong trades in this country. I fully realize that in some parts of the country Unions simply outpriced themselves (and, still do). But, that was not the case in Texas and most of the South and West.

I think its absurd to say there aren't Americans who can't do the job - or, won't do the job. Yes, they'll do the job, Bill Gates and Tim Cook - but, you'll have to pay them better than you do your immigrant workers you beg the government to let you have more of. Hypocrites to the end.

It should be an embarrassment to the national Chamber of Commerce that they have shilled for illegals for so long as well, undercutting Americans and legal immigrants. For what? So that its member can have a better margin for their bottom line?

No tears shed. When the rich and powerful - in politics and business - squeeze out American workers, college graduates, and legal immigrants, then we've gone too far in the wrong direction.

The next few days, weeks, months, and years will bring changes to our family because of this law. But, make no mistake, what we have is as much the fault of Mexico's leaders themselves - as well as our own politicians and big business CEOs - as it is anyone else's.

In fact, to me, and millions of others, the main culprits are in this order: (1) Mexican government, (2) American politicians and CEO-types undercutting American workers by shilling for a protected illegal work force, and (3) Immigration policy.

It's a damn shame that some kids are caught in the middle of it. But, it was their own home government's doing in the first place, along with CEO's and politicians in this country looking to line their own pockets and vote totals.

Edited September 5, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

GTWT · September 6, 2017

14 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

This is a topic that hits close to home for me because my wife is from Mexico, is here legally, but has relatives and other friends here that are not. In fact, she has nephews and nieces that fit under the DACA rules.

I have a couple of observations. The first thing I want to say is, both sides have points, good points that need to be made...but, neither side is going to listen to the other. So we have what we have.

Let me start with my nephews and nieces who were brought here by one of my wife's brothers who wouldn't wait for his papers, and keeps himself (for no good reason) in jeopardy of being deported. Immigrants like him - who could have easily qualified to get here legally the way one of his older brothers did, and my wife and one of her sisters - I don't really feel much sympathy. Their family was well off enough to meet the qualifications to enter legally, and he should have waited like his brother, sister, and my wife.

By not doing so, and bringing his son and daughter, he put them in jeopardy as well. For reasons I will never understand, the nephew and niece have chosen not to go to college; but, they do have jobs. They came here when they were seven and one year old, respectively. The nephew spent two years in school in Mexico, the rest here. The niece simply was raised and went all the way through school here.

Especially for my niece, she literally would be lost living in the little ranch area where my wife's family lives if she gets sent back. I'm not saying that to draw any sympathy. Her dad, my brother-in-law, went in with both eyes open when he chose - and has consistently chosen - to not follow American immigration laws.

I will feel bad for my niece if she gets deported, but...it will not be completely devastating to her. If she goes back, she's got a better education than probably 90% of the kids her age in that area of Mexico. She speaks Spanish and English fluently. She would have no trouble going to most big cities in Mexico and finding work.

My wife's family is from Guanajuato, and there is an artsy tourist city there called San Miguel de Allende. It is a city where you can easily get along if you aren't fluent in Spanish. Many Canadian and American ex-pats are there. My wife has a sister who keeps an apartment there, and they have a store front they lease out there. So, if deported, my niece will be fine.

As for those who are in her situation but do not have a well off enough family back in Mexico, it might be tougher. Might.

They still have the benefit of an American education. And, as much as we bash it here, it is light years beyond what most kids get in Mexico - if they get any at all in Mexico.

And, that brings me to my second point, I have a huge beef with people who criticize America over this issue, saying we are racist, trying to throw out poor, brown-skinned people, etc. If we are racist, then what is the Mexican government? The Mexican government is filled with "brown-skinned people" who refuse to do anything for their fellow "brown-skinned people," who happen to be poor as well.

Which is worse, us enforcing our immigration laws or Mexico for ignoring its own citizens in the first place so that they feel like they had to come up here?

Mexico is horribly irresponsible when it comes to its own people, natural resources, and economy. That is not the fault of the United States. Millions of their citizens are here illegally because the Mexican government sucks, not because of anything we've done. Worse, the Mexican government doesn't care that it sucks. They flaunt it as some sort of badge of honor.

So, point two, I hate and reject the notion that we are somehow worse than the Mexican government who purposely won't take care of their own citizens in the first place when they have the natural resources to be able to do so, but choose to let a few wealthy individuals and politicos look out for themselves to the detriment of all else. They are the main problem, not our immigration laws!

Third point, and this concerns jobs. It is a completely false notion, in my opinion, to assume that losing illegals will somehow hurt the economy; especially in the construction trade. My dad's family in Tulsa have been homebuilders since the 1960s. And, guess what? They've somehow done it with a legal, American work force.

I reject the stupid argument that "home prices will go up." Uh...if you hadn't noticed, home prices have already gone up - even with immigrant labor! Builders are paying immigrant less than they would American workers, but home prices are still higher. The builders and their subcontractors are paying less and pocketing more than before.

You tell me whether that is right or wrong. We used to have strong trades in this country. I fully realize that in some parts of the country Unions simply outpriced themselves (and, still do). But, that was not the case in Texas and most of the South and West.

I think its absurd to say there aren't Americans who can't do the job - or, won't do the job. Yes, they'll do the job, Bill Gates and Tim Cook - but, you'll have to pay them better than you do your immigrant workers you beg the government to let you have more of. Hypocrites to the end.

It should be an embarrassment to the national Chamber of Commerce that they have shilled for illegals for so long as well, undercutting Americans and legal immigrants. For what? So that its member can have a better margin for their bottom line?

No tears shed. When the rich and powerful - in politics and business - squeeze out American workers, college graduates, and legal immigrants, then we've gone too far in the wrong direction.

The next few days, weeks, months, and years will bring changes to our family because of this law. But, make no mistake, what we have is as much the fault of Mexico's leaders themselves - as well as our own politicians and big business CEOs - as it is anyone else's.

In fact, to me, and millions of others, the main culprits are in this order: (1) Mexican government, (2) American politicians and CEO-types undercutting American workers by shilling for a protected illegal work force, and (3) Immigration policy.

It's a damn shame that some kids are caught in the middle of it. But, it was their own home government's doing in the first place, along with CEO's and politicians in this country looking to line their own pockets and vote totals.

Yes it is a damn shame that kids are caught in the middle of it. Regardless of who brought them to the US they are now Americans. They speak English. They are educated in US schools. They share American values. They are American. Sending them back to Mexico, or Honduras, or Jamaica is grossly inhumane.

KRAM1 · September 6, 2017

41 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Yes it is a damn shame that kids are caught in the middle of it. Regardless of who brought them to the US they are now Americans. They speak English. They are educated in US schools. They share American values. They are American. Sending them back to Mexico, or Honduras, or Jamaica is grossly inhumane.

Pretty much agree, but why have the vast majority not taken steps to become citizens? Has to be a compromise somewhere for these kids. It is a shame that D.C. Is in no mood to compromise. Neither side can get out of its own way these days to do the people's business. Trump gave Congress a "shot over the bow" in giving them 6 months to act as, he is correct, this is an issue for Congress not presidential powers. This one is now squarely in the lap of Congress. Can the Dems get over their butthurt over losing to Trump enough to actually serve the people? Can the R's see these kids as something other than a typical illegal alien enough to actually serve the people? We shall see. We shall see. Six months is long enough. The end result is on Congress. Will the bunch of fools actually act in the people's interest?

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 6, 2017

2 hours ago, GTWT said:

Yes it is a damn shame that kids are caught in the middle of it. Regardless of who brought them to the US they are now Americans. They speak English. They are educated in US schools. They share American values. They are American. Sending them back to Mexico, or Honduras, or Jamaica is grossly inhumane.

They are not American. They were born in Mexico. And, it is not grossly inhumane to send them back to a country where they speak the language and have family. If we sent the illegal Mexican immigrants to Chad or Ethiopia or Syria, that would be inhumane.

And, to say they don't have their own culture here is simply a lie. I go dozens of parties and celebrations a year with my wife's family and friends. The Mexicans are very good at inculcating their culture to their children here in America. So, there would be may be a hint of culture shock to a Mexican immigrant sent back to Mexico, but that is all.

So, the question is: why isn't the Mexican government responsible for its own people?

Mexico isn't like resource poor, like Chad or Ethiopia. It's not worn torn, like Syria. It's people are not oppressed, like Cubans and North Koreans...and now, Venezuelans.

Mexico is lazy and arrogant. It has the natural resources to take care of itself, but it chooses to use those to enrich their political and big business leaders. They love it when their poor to go to America, so that they can wash their hands of them...while profiting from the money they send back home in remittances.

Mexico needs to be held responsible for its poor governance. Some people like to say the United States shouldn't be the world's police. Fair enough. But, by the same token, we shouldn't be the world's foster care program either.

And, in Mexico's case especialmente, we shouldn't be the foster care answer for a country who has the resources to enrich its own citizens, but steadfastly chooses not to do so.

Mexico has no excuse. It is culpable for the lives of their own citizens, not us.

Our neighbors to the north, Canada, has a much harsher geography and less natural resources than Mexico, but somehow manages it to the benefit of its own citizens, and to the degree that they are not pouring illegally across our northern border.

It's question of the will of Mexico to quit f*cking around and do something for its own people with its own resources instead of dumping their poor and criminal on us and expecting us to foot the bill at every turn.

Edited September 6, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

Rudy · September 6, 2017

I do believe that there should be a path to citizenship for people that are here illegally. Once a path is agreed upon, there is an amnesty period in which people would be allowed to come forward without fear of deportation, you become a documented immigrant, complete your steps towards citizenship and become a citizen. If you choose not to, then that is on you, and you should be subject to removal.

I've had several people ask me if there were going to be mass deportations. I had to reassure them that we were not going to go house to house, or to every Catholic church to find and remove people.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 6, 2017

44 minutes ago, Rudy said:

I do believe that there should be a path to citizenship for people that are here illegally. Once a path is agreed upon, there is an amnesty period in which people would be allowed to come forward without fear of deportation, you become a documented immigrant, complete your steps towards citizenship and become a citizen. If you choose not to, then that is on you, and you should be subject to removal.

I've had several people ask me if there were going to be mass deportations. I had to reassure them that we were not going to go house to house, or to every Catholic church to find and remove people.

There is a path to citizenship. https://www.uscis.gov/

In fact, instead of renewing her green card this year, my wife has applied for naturalization to become a U.S. citizen. There is a path, and she's on it. Legally, as always.

Why are people here illegally supposed to be afforded a pathway over, or different than, the one my wife, a legal immigrant, is on?

And, again, why do we owe it to them instead of Mexico taking back and taking care of their own citizens? Why isn't Mexico held responsible for its own citizens?

Mexico has enough resources to take care of its own citizens. It isn't war torn. It isn't ruled by a dictator. Just because it does a sh*tty job of managing its own economy we should be responsible for its citizens who come here illegally?

That makes sense to you? Are we now lowering the immigration bar to allowing entry to people whose countries simply have sh*tty economies of their own making? Jose couldn't find a job in his home country so here came here illegally and cut grass for 17 years. We should now give him citizenship? After all, it's been 17 years and he still thinks he wouldn't be able to find work back home (he doesn't really know, he just assumes...plus, in Mexico, he's not getting subsidized rent and so forth).

He's also fathered five children with his own penis, too, while he's been here. Some kids now drive around with him in the truck when he's out mowing on weekends and summers when school is out. We can't send him back now?

While we are at it, should we also change the laws regarding things like embezzlement? For instance, if someone steals from their corporation, should they be free from prosecution if they get away with it for a certain number of years? And, if they use that embezzled money to do noble things like provide food, shelter, and clothing for their own kids? I mean, why are we beefing with these people? They just stole to support their family right? And, they got a way with it for a long time? What's the harm?

The other employees maybe didn't get raises because of it? So what. At least they have jobs. Why are they complaining?

Investors were misled about the use their stakes? So what. They already have plenty of money anyway. After all, they had enough just to give to the company in the first place. They didn't say anything for all those years while it was embezzled; why let them have their day in court now?

The whole thing is stupid. Mexico, not the United States, should be responsible for its own citizens. We have a pathway to citizenship, and always have.

We've made exceptions in the past for legitimate situations such a Cubans fleeing Castro and Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian refugees after the Vietnam and the surrounding countries fell to communists and dictators.

Mexico has never been in one of those types of situations. It's simply a poorly managed country. Setting the bar at "poorly managed country's people can come on in" is setting the bar too low...in my opinion.

Edited September 6, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

MeanGreenTexan · September 6, 2017

My wife is an elementary teacher and came home one day upset.
A meth addict came up to the school, stole 3 bikes right off the rack, and took them to a pawn shop to get drug money.
Of course, there are surveillance cams all over a pawn shop, so the police found the bikes and gave them back to their rightful owners after a police report was filed.
2 bikes were returned to their owners.
1 was not because the parents were afraid to file the police report due to their status. Bike impounded, kid without bike. Sad. Only 1 victim in this story due to dice-roll decisions by multiple adults and a constant fear/threat of separation.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 6, 2017

24 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

My wife is an elementary teacher and came home one day upset.
A meth addict came up to the school, stole 3 bikes right off the rack, and took them to a pawn shop to get drug money.
Of course, there are surveillance cams all over a pawn shop, so the police found the bikes and gave them back to their rightful owners after a police report was filed.
2 bikes were returned to their owners.
1 was not because the parents were afraid to file the police report due to their status. Bike impounded, kid without bike. Sad. Only 1 victim in this story due to dice-roll decisions by multiple adults and a constant fear/threat of separation.

So, if you are afraid to report a crime because you have already willingly broken the law, you get amnesty? And, you should especially get it because you were able to have a kid somewhere along the line, and send him/her to a school funded by American and legal immigrant tax dollars?

The Mexican government should be absolved of any responsibility of your existence because you've been in America illegally long enough to have had a child and a bike stolen?

Here's something to stop the lies about there "not being jobs back home in Mexico": https://tradingeconomics.com/mexico/unemployment-rate

Unemployment rate there is currently lower than it is in America.

WHAT? How did that happen? We keep being told there are no jobs in Mexico. What? American politicians and immigrants lawyer-types might be lying to us about Mexico?

Say it ain't so!

Edited September 6, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

MeanGreenTexan · September 6, 2017

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

So, if you are afraid to report a crime because you have already willingly broken the law, you get amnesty? And, you should especially get it because you were able to have a kid somewhere along the line, and send him/her to a school funded by American and legal immigrant tax dollars?

The Mexican government should be absolved of any responsibility of your existence because you've been in America illegally long enough to have had a child and a bike stolen?

Here's something to stop the lies about there "not being jobs back home in Mexico": https://tradingeconomics.com/mexico/unemployment-rate

Unemployment rate there is currently lower than it is in America.

WHAT? How did that happen? We keep being told there are no jobs in Mexico. What? American politicians and immigrants lawyer-types might be lying to us about Mexico?

Say it ain't so!

I didn't say any of that. Just relaying a sad story about the realities of it all.

Something about forest for the trees...

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 6, 2017

Wait...there's more! Home Ownership Rate in Mexico is higher than the U.S.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/home-ownership-rate
https://tradingeconomics.com/mexico/home-ownership-rate

WHAT? How can that be? We're told the Mexicans have no place to live!

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I didn't say any of that. Just relaying a sad story about the realities of it all.

Something about forest for the trees...

I see them both. And, so does the Mexican government.

GTWT · September 6, 2017

Mexico is lazy and arrogant.

Oh my dear God........

Rudy · September 7, 2017

MeanGreenMailbox, I meant a path for citizenship for those who entered illegally. I don't approve of skirting the laws regarding legal immigration, and I completely sympathize with those who have come here legally being upset with those who have not my idea for illegal immigrants won't be popular on here, but I believe they should serve a mandatory stint in the US Military. They enjoyed the freedoms of this counryh, soshould give back to the country and it's legal residents. Serve a stint in a support role, ie: cook, mechanic, clerk, etc. Once they have served their time, then they are eligible for citizenship, and if they wish to stay in the military and transition to a combat role, then they could. This would also give them a skill they could use in the private sector and provide a career they could support their family with.

GTWT · September 7, 2017

2 hours ago, TCUFrog said:

He is talking about the Mexican gov't and he is 100% correct.

Like most gross generalizations it is unfair and inaccurate. The verbiage reflects an all too common bias. Over the last 30 years I've worked with dozens of Mexican scientists and agency officials. Some are indeed arrogant and some seemed lazy. But most were hard-working and anxious to perform their duties. As a whole they are no different than the US scientists and officials I've worked with.

FirefightnRick · September 7, 2017

3 hours ago, GTWT said:

Like most gross generalizations it is unfair and inaccurate.

Oh really?

Rick

GTWT · September 7, 2017

You're right Rick, I'm lumping the Nazis with the KKK & other alt-right groups. I'm guilty of over-generalization. I'm just not sure which group of fine young men I insulted.

UNTLifer · September 7, 2017

23 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

There is a path to citizenship. https://www.uscis.gov/

In fact, instead of renewing her green card this year, my wife has applied for naturalization to become a U.S. citizen. There is a path, and she's on it. Legally, as always.

Why are people here illegally supposed to be afforded a pathway over, or different than, the one my wife, a legal immigrant, is on?

And, again, why do we owe it to them instead of Mexico taking back and taking care of their own citizens? Why isn't Mexico held responsible for its own citizens?

Mexico has enough resources to take care of its own citizens. It isn't war torn. It isn't ruled by a dictator. Just because it does a sh*tty job of managing its own economy we should be responsible for its citizens who come here illegally?

That makes sense to you? Are we now lowering the immigration bar to allowing entry to people whose countries simply have sh*tty economies of their own making? Jose couldn't find a job in his home country so here came here illegally and cut grass for 17 years. We should now give him citizenship? After all, it's been 17 years and he still thinks he wouldn't be able to find work back home (he doesn't really know, he just assumes...plus, in Mexico, he's not getting subsidized rent and so forth).

He's also fathered five children with his own penis, too, while he's been here. Some kids now drive around with him in the truck when he's out mowing on weekends and summers when school is out. We can't send him back now?

While we are at it, should we also change the laws regarding things like embezzlement? For instance, if someone steals from their corporation, should they be free from prosecution if they get away with it for a certain number of years? And, if they use that embezzled money to do noble things like provide food, shelter, and clothing for their own kids? I mean, why are we beefing with these people? They just stole to support their family right? And, they got a way with it for a long time? What's the harm?

The other employees maybe didn't get raises because of it? So what. At least they have jobs. Why are they complaining?

Investors were misled about the use their stakes? So what. They already have plenty of money anyway. After all, they had enough just to give to the company in the first place. They didn't say anything for all those years while it was embezzled; why let them have their day in court now?

The whole thing is stupid. Mexico, not the United States, should be responsible for its own citizens. We have a pathway to citizenship, and always have.

We've made exceptions in the past for legitimate situations such a Cubans fleeing Castro and Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian refugees after the Vietnam and the surrounding countries fell to communists and dictators.

Mexico has never been in one of those types of situations. It's simply a poorly managed country. Setting the bar at "poorly managed country's people can come on in" is setting the bar too low...in my opinion.

Thank you. I hate when people say there isn't a path. There is, just because many choose to ignore it doesn't mean it isn't there. Follow the rules or go home.

14 hours ago, GTWT said:

Like most gross generalizations it is unfair and inaccurate. The verbiage reflects an all too common bias. Over the last 30 years I've worked with dozens of Mexican scientists and agency officials. Some are indeed arrogant and some seemed lazy. But most were hard-working and anxious to perform their duties. As a whole they are no different than the US scientists and officials I've worked with.

I have as well, but he isn't talking about individuals. He is referencing the Mexican government.

14 hours ago, Rudy said:

MeanGreenMailbox, I meant a path for citizenship for those who entered illegally.

Again, there is a path. Follow it or go home. To many say the system is broken but it doesn't make sense.

If I break into your home, don't leave and set up shop that is still breaking and entering. I get arrested, etc... This is a simple analogy to what is happening with illegal immigration. They are "breaking in" to our country. Just because many have and are doing it doesn't mean the system is broken, it means it is not being enforced.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 7, 2017

17 hours ago, TCUFrog said:

He is talking about the Mexican gov't and he is 100% correct.

Exactly. The Mexican government loves that they don't have to care for their own poor. They gleefully watch them flood American, then criticize America when it tries to stem the flow.

The Mexican government loves the $20 billion+ they get from remittances each year that they don't have to do a damn thing to earn...except keep encouraging their poor to leave, then criticize American politicians who correctly point out the strain it is on our own resources to constantly take care of their poor.

All the Mexican government wants from their poor is for them to keep waiving the Mexican flag over here and keep send their remittances from lawn mowing and house cleaning back home. If they really loved their own citizens, ask yourself, whey wouldn't they be doing everything in their power to entice them back to Mexico.

So, again: Why isn't Mexico responsible for its own citizens? ALL of its citizens, even the poor. Why are they our responsibility not theirs?

No one seems to want to answer that very simple question. The answer, to me, in my experience, and in my wife's family's experience, is that the Mexican government is lazy and arrogant. They know having them here is easy money in remittances, and that there are enough left leaning people in American who will criticize their own government for trying to protect its border and taxpayer dollars.

To criticize the American government for its immigration policies - which, by the way, does work for those who come here legally - but give the Mexican government a pass? Ludicrous.

13 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Thank you. I hate when people say there isn't a path. There is, just because many choose to ignore it doesn't mean it isn't there. Follow the rules or go home.

You're welcome. There is a path. And, a clear path. What these numbskulls want is an path for the lawbreakers - and, the kids of the lawbreakers.

The path takes paperwork, time - AND PROOF THAT YOU HAVE THE MEANS ENOUGH BACK HOME THAT YOU WON'T STAY IN AMERICA after your visa expires. If you are too poor - or, too lazy (like one of my brothers-in-law) - that isn't our fault. That is on your home government, not ours. They are supposed to be trying to make your life better, give you a security net, not us.

Again...on the one hand, people say, we shouldn't be the police of the world. And, again I say, fine - then don't make us the foster home of the world either.

As far as the lawbreakers' kids, Mexico would be well served to try to entice the "educated, hard-working" and Spanish-speaking group back into their country. It is the height of hypocrisy that they get on camera and say, "I want a better life for myself and my kids in America," then turn around and wave the Mexican flag at every turn.

If they really are proud to be Mexican, educated, hard-working - all is this sh*t the media keeps feeding us as they try to get us to feel sorry for the kids - then go back and help the country you claim to love.

It's a joke.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 7, 2017

14 hours ago, GTWT said:

Like most gross generalizations it is unfair and inaccurate. The verbiage reflects an all too common bias. Over the last 30 years I've worked with dozens of Mexican scientists and agency officials. Some are indeed arrogant and some seemed lazy. But most were hard-working and anxious to perform their duties. As a whole they are no different than the US scientists and officials I've worked with.

When I see the Mexican government - for Mexicans in Mexico and abroad - do more to help their own poor, I will change my mind.

When I see the Mexican government lower their immigration standards for the benefit of the Hondurans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans that they regularly catch and their own southern border, and summarily send beck, I will change my mind.

When I see the Mexican government actively recruit the educated "Dreamers" here to help them educate their own people back in Mexico, I will change my mind.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · September 7, 2017

On remittances and Mexico: http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/20/news/economy/mexico-remittances-trump/index.html

This is more laziness by the Mexican government. They have watched as remittances have surpassed foreign oil exports. This is why they fight to keep their people in our country and not theirs.

If I were crafting the DACA legislation, I would include a provision that remittances to Mexico either be:
(1) taxed heavily, or
(2) eliminated altogether.

In short, tell Mexico, we'll keep your "Dreamers," but the price is you must get your sh*t together and start acting like a grown up. Pay for your own sh*t. In short, treat them like a 20-something child who shleps around his parents' house endlessly, f*cking around with a part-time job during the day and staying up half the night playing xbox and looking at porn.

That, is what Mexico is right now. Take away their car keys. Take away their cell phones and ipads. Whatever it takes to get them off the dime, out of the house, and supporting themselves. The goodwill is long gone. No more marching into our living rooms with Mexican flags, demanding this right and that right, as a bimbo (male or female) from the Columbia School of Journalism stands there with a microphone and tries to lecture you about how "inhumane" you are for not wanting to support them in your house forever. Complete and utter bullsh*t.

It's not for us to prop up Mexico's lazy government or to take care of their poor - in their country and ours. Mexico needs to get off the dime and help its own people. It is shameful for a country with as many natural resources as Mexico to endlessly choose to lean on the United State constantly - legally and illegally - to prop up their own government and economy instead of helping itself. More shameful still are American politicians who voluntarily defend Mexico's laziness!

And, on top of that, both cravenly try to shame U.S. government officials, politicians, and citizens when they correctly point out the imbalance and begin work to try to change it. Then, the empty-heads in the media jump in.

The reason Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump were popular in 2016 is that, in spite of both having some bad ideas, they have hit on this one common thread: Americans are tired of being taken advantage of by their own industries, companies, and politicians who have spent the last three decades selling them up the river in foreign trade and immigration deals.

Hillary can bitch all she wants about Bernie, but it wasn't Bernie dancing on West Virginia coal miners' graves in person, then totally ignoring Rust Belt states, where millions of jobs have been lost and populations have fled for four decades now.

On the other side, John McCain, Marco Rubio, and all other GOP contenders that Donald Trump dispatched can bitch and criticize him all they want, but he's not the one who spent the campaign downplaying the real damage foreign trade pacts have done to American communities and proposing more "look the other way" immigration ideas that would do no more than further enrich foreign governments and economies on the back of the American taxpayer.

I didn't vote for Bernie or Trump, inasmuch as I find them both repugnant. In fact, I didn't vote at all because I also found Hillary and Jill Stein to be repugnant and wanting to do no more than re-hash all the bad policies that have led us down the road to handing things out to foreign governments as well, punishing the American middle class in the process.

(And...please, Libertarians...there is no magic land of Ayn Rand, okay? You are as bad about that as Liberals are with their Utopia scenarios. Everything costs something, but you can't just leave everyone behind. You are free to go smoke dope and give each other as many venereal diseases as you like. Colorado and Washington state have rolled out a welcome mat for you...go, just go. But, stop running pointless presidential campaigns. Libertarian presidential campaigns are as pointless as fart jokes, and about as intellectually stimulating.)

The bottom line is this: people are sick of it. And, because we live in an age where the mainstream media no longer control the message at the behest of corporations and politicians, people are better educated and have stopped falling for the same old bullsh*t that old school politicians like Hillary Clinton and John McCain are constantly trying to dump on them.

Quit f*cking lying to us, and quit f*cking giving our money and jobs away to foreign countries. And, that starts with Mexico. Hold them accountable for their own people and economy, for f*ck sake!

Mexico has enough oil and gas, they have farm and ranch lands, they have sea ports...they have all of the same things we have and that Canada has. Stop letting them d*ck it away on their own wealthy political and business class, then turn around and come to America, hats in hands, begging for more of our money and jobs!

The free ride for Mexico has got to end.

Edited September 7, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

GTWT · September 7, 2017

The free ride for Mexico has got to end.

Yeah. And they need to pay for that damn wall too.

UNTFan23 · September 7, 2017

30 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Yeah. And they need to pay for that damn wall too.

Maybe by taxing all the money sent to Mexico?

GTWT · September 7, 2017

12 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

Maybe by taxing all the money sent to Mexico?

We already tax their earnings:

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 70 percent and 80 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in
about $7 billion per year into Social Security.

UNTFan23 · September 7, 2017

Just now, GTWT said:

We already tax their earnings:

With 27 billion leaving our economy after those taxes taken out.

GTWT · September 7, 2017

19 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

With 27 billion leaving our economy after those taxes taken out.

Source?

UNTFan23 · September 7, 2017

Just now, GTWT said:

Source?

I misread the CNN article as it said Mexico received 27 billion in remittances but it wouldn't shock me if the amount coming from the US is in the high, high teens or low 20s out of the 27 billion flowing into MX.