DRC: ESPN fan temperature rankings -- Are UNT fans really distraught?

Harry · August 22, 2017

Let's be honest, UNT did not always support the program to the level they are today. They were doing just enough to be able to say they had a program and reap the positive aspects of marketing etc. I see much of this occurring during the Hurley regime. Yes a move was made to I-A but that was done on the cheap, building crappy metal bleachers to meet the attendance requirements. Other than that not much else was invested. At the time you got caught up in the move to I-A hoping it would lead to bigger things. In hindsight you realize that it was a shell game, smoke and mirrors and had little chance of much success.

During the Pohl administration I think they really actually started to realize that it would take investment. You saw Gene Stallings come in and give his assessment. You saw the move to the Belt which was the best we could do and did give us access to a bowl game. You had 4 straight bowl years under Dickey which were a great step but we could not beat or compete with an out of conference opponent to save our lives. That diminished the value of those bowls in the eyes of our fans in my opinion. I do believe the bowls and success gave us just enough push to make much needed facilities a reality however and for that I am eternally grateful.

Next you had the Gretchen B/Dodge years where we were able to finally get the athletic center and stadium finalized. Wow - huge step forward for UNT historically, but when compared to other similar sized programs we were just playing catch-up. I think many of us fell prey to the belief that the facilities would change the game when in reality it was something that we should have done a long time ago. Rawlins shows up and the facilities combined with our location gives us a spot in C-USA which was the best conference we had been in since Fry.

I marked 2011 as the first time that UNT was really in this deal. Prior to that, our coaches were woefully underpaid and we played in a dilapidated stadium, sub-par facilities etc. We paid Mac decent money and allowed him to pay his assistants. We had a nice stadium and decent facilities. Mac looks like the guy, then has major health issues and other than a terrific 2013 season things go downhill in recruiting and on the field. But at least starting in 2011 we had a fighting shot.

Fast forward to now (2017), and we have highly thought of coaches and assistants who are well compensated. We make buy-outs to get the guys like McCasland that we need. We identify issues in our facilities and set goals to get them repaired or in place. We have a very highly thought of AD who has a track record of success. So in my mind, we are well above where we were in 2011 which was the high water mark in my years of following football. We have all the pieces in place to be successful in this conference. Will it be easy? Hell no. Every school in C-USA is throwing major resources at their sports programs. Heck, UTSA just announced the matched our salary for Litrell paying Wilson $900K. But even with that being said, we are well positioned to have success in this league now versus underfunding the program in past years and hoping for the best.

So in that particular regard, I do agree with Vito that there is a lot of excitement and optimism around UNT these days and for good reason.

Cerebus · August 22, 2017

10 minutes ago, dd992emo said:

Some can't seem to understand why a team that increased the season win total by a factor of 5 didn't just increase it by 8, instead.

If they can do that again this year, I'll be much less distraught.

VideoEagle · August 22, 2017

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

If they can do that again this year, I'll be much less distraught.

It be thrilled with a factor of 1.5, much less a full 5.

Monkeypox · August 22, 2017

I don't know if the majority of our fan base is distraught, because I'm not sure we have a fan base. If the people who still follow the program aren't:

1) Active students

2) Recent Alumni

3) Masochists

Then I think labeling them as "distraught" is okay, but it's still not really the right word. I'm not overly positive about the program, but I'm hopeful enough that I still buy some game tickets every year and expect us to be competitive. Still, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we got beat by Lamar in week one and went on to win 2-3 games. I also wouldn't be surprised if we won 9-10 games this year. The only thing that would surprise me is if we went undefeated or had multiple winning seasons in a row or beat someone that mattered. And I don't mean "Cincinnati" matter or "SMU" matter. I mean it has to matter somewhere outside of our current fan base and tiny bubble of caring about North Texas athletics.

I've seen just about everything else. Most people from my era of school (late 90s) don't care anymore, even those that like football. They're not distraught, though, because they've never really been given a reason to care. UT fans and alumni are distraught, because they went from a powerhouse that everyone talked about to an also-ran. I think to be distraught, you'd have to have been in a better position than you are currently, and we really haven't.

Matt from A700 · August 23, 2017

I am distraught that football season still hasn't started yet so sports writers have nothing else to talk about other than remind us we are distraught.

shootermcgavin44 · August 23, 2017

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I would say that the majority of our fan base is excited about the direction of the program. I am not distraught. I would be if I thought we were headed in the right direction. I would label our fan base as optimistic at this point. A year ago distraught might have been the correct label.

Majority of the fan base? We can't even get close to filling up a 30k stadium

UNTLifer · August 23, 2017

6 minutes ago, shootermcgavin44 said:

Majority of the fan base? We can't even get close to filling up a 30k stadium

What does that have to do with a majority? A majority is just a percentage of a number and has nothing to do with our stadium's capacity.

shootermcgavin44 · August 23, 2017

38 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

What does that have to do with a majority? A majority is just a percentage of a number and has nothing to do with our stadium's capacity.

Our fan base is terrible, 5k-6k die hards at most. #olddenton mindset of pandering to the same ole folks. Do something different.

Edited August 23, 2017 by shootermcgavin44

Ryan Munthe · August 23, 2017

Brett.

5-8 is no bueno. Don't care who you are.

Aquila_Viridis · August 23, 2017

Why bring notoriety to espn drivel that is paid for by the SEC to keep everyone else down? North Texas jumped over 50 spots in this year's Forbes college rankings released earlier this month. Sure that still leaves us at a lowly 500 but it shows both how far we have to go and how far we can go. I find it to be one of many very encouraging steps. Why put up a picture of someone hanging their head? It's a tremendous challenge elevating a university weighted down by its past. DRC is not helping with this kind of thing. Did you sell out too or something?

Ryan Munthe · August 23, 2017

4 minutes ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

Why bring notoriety to espn drivel that is paid for by the SEC to keep everyone else down? North Texas jumped over 50 spots in this year's Forbes college rankings released earlier this month. Sure that still leaves us at a lowly 500 but it shows both how far we have to go and how far we can go. I find it to be one of many very encouraging steps. Why put up a picture of someone hanging their head? It's a tremendous challenge elevating a university weighted down by its past. DRC is not helping with this kind of thing. Did you sell out too or something?

Ah, yes, Forbes college rankings, where Rate Your Professor rankings play a major factor.

Aquila_Viridis · August 23, 2017

Right that's what got Harvard and others to the top.

Mean Green 93-98 · August 23, 2017

Just for the record, this sports news agency that is claiming the clairvoyance to know each school's fan temperature is the same sports news agency knuckleheaded enough to pull a broadcaster of Asian descent off the UVa broadcast...because his name happens to be Robert Lee. So...take what they have to say with a certain grain of salt.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Mean Green 93-98

GrandGreen · August 23, 2017

If we are distraught now, we must have been suicidal for most of the last forty years.

SilverEagle · August 23, 2017

11 hours ago, Harry said:

Let's be honest, UNT did not always support the program to the level they are today. They were doing just enough to be able to say they had a program and reap the positive aspects of marketing etc. I see much of this occurring during the Hurley regime. Yes a move was made to I-A but that was done on the cheap, building crappy metal bleachers to meet the attendance requirements. Other than that not much else was invested. At the time you got caught up in the move to I-A hoping it would lead to bigger things. In hindsight you realize that it was a shell game, smoke and mirrors and had little chance of much success.

During the Pohl administration I think they really actually started to realize that it would take investment. You saw Gene Stallings come in and give his assessment. You saw the move to the Belt which was the best we could do and did give us access to a bowl game. You had 4 straight bowl years under Dickey which were a great step but we could not beat or compete with an out of conference opponent to save our lives. That diminished the value of those bowls in the eyes of our fans in my opinion. I do believe the bowls and success gave us just enough push to make much needed facilities a reality however and for that I am eternally grateful.

Next you had the Gretchen B/Dodge years where we were able to finally get the athletic center and stadium finalized. Wow - huge step forward for UNT historically, but when compared to other similar sized programs we were just playing catch-up. I think many of us fell prey to the belief that the facilities would change the game when in reality it was something that we should have done a long time ago. Rawlins shows up and the facilities combined with our location gives us a spot in C-USA which was the best conference we had been in since Fry.

I marked 2011 as the first time that UNT was really in this deal. Prior to that, our coaches were woefully underpaid and we played in a dilapidated stadium, sub-par facilities etc. We paid Mac decent money and allowed him to pay his assistants. We had a nice stadium and decent facilities. Mac looks like the guy, then has major health issues and other than a terrific 2013 season things go downhill in recruiting and on the field. But at least starting in 2011 we had a fighting shot.

Fast forward to now (2017), and we have highly thought of coaches and assistants who are well compensated. We make buy-outs to get the guys like McCasland that we need. We identify issues in our facilities and set goals to get them repaired or in place. We have a very highly thought of AD who has a track record of success. So in my mind, we are well above where we were in 2011 which was the high water mark in my years of following football. We have all the pieces in place to be successful in this conference. Will it be easy? Hell no. Every school in C-USA is throwing major resources at their sports programs. Heck, UTSA just announced the matched our salary for Litrell paying Wilson $900K. But even with that being said, we are well positioned to have success in this league now versus underfunding the program in past years and hoping for the best.

So in that particular regard, I do agree with Vito that there is a lot of excitement and optimism around UNT these days and for good reason.

OK, I've tried to get my point over by using the brand-new-school-built-in-a-depressed-area-doesn't-automatically-translate-into-causing-parents-to-CARE-about-their-kids-education analogy. Let me try another familiar cultural comparison.......Church.

When it comes to the dominate religions in Texas, let's call them evangelical-type churches, there are two main expectations that are the foundation of their culture(s)

1. Always show up to Church services and/or Church events

2. Always tithe........or close to it.

The most successful football programs in Texas, and the rest of the U.S. for that matter, have the same CULTURAL EXPECTATIONS.

OUR FOUNDING FATHERS AT NORTH TEXAS NEVER HAD EITHER OF THOSE EXPECTATIONS. They raised us to be a bunch of (sports) heathens.......FOR DECADES!

And that didn't change until Jitter Nolan and Hayden Fry came along. They set about to try and CHANGE THE CULTURE. One eventually left, and the other was run off. And after that happened, changing the culture has been spotty.......at best. So, build the nicest facilities, hire the most competent administrators and coaches, but how do you set in motion changing the CULTURAL EXPECTATIONS that all successful programs have had in place for DECADES.....1. Always show up, and 2. Always give to the program.

97and03 · August 23, 2017

I am historically distraught but trying to be guardedly optimistic about the season.

Hunter Green · August 23, 2017

19 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

I guess it depends on from which end you're taking fan temperature.

I think conference affiliation matters to the casual fan. We are developing rivalries, but most folks want to see us playing the likes of Texas Tech, Houston and yes, SMU. Those are schools within the state that people identify with as part of the old SWC. They generate interest. I, for one, want to see a series with one, or all of these schools.

Ben Gooding · August 23, 2017

4 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

I think conference affiliation matters to the casual fan. We are developing rivalries, but most folks want to see us playing the likes of Texas Tech, Houston and yes, SMU. Those are schools within the state that people identify with as part of the old SWC. They generate interest. I, for one, want to see a series with one, or all of these schools.

We actually have a series setup with all 3. So, you're in luck.

untjim1995 · August 23, 2017

I think our CUSA West setup is a very nice affiliation for us. I wish we would also play SBC West schools in an even more regionalized conference setup, as well, since that is about as good of a conference situation as we will ever have. Since I don't expect to ever get into the AAC or MWC, but assuming the Big XII leftovers fill those conferences up and we don't lose any CUSA members to them, I think a conference setup like this would be solid:

UTEP, NMSU, UTSA, Texas State, Rice, UNT, La Tech, ULL, Arky State, ULM, USM, and UAB

ODU, Marshall, WKU, Appy State, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, MUTS, Troy, USA, FIU, FAU, Ga State, and Ga Southern

Ben Gooding · August 23, 2017

12 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I think our CUSA West setup is a very nice affiliation for us. I wish we would also play SBC West schools in an even more regionalized conference setup, as well, since that is about as good of a conference situation as we will ever have. Since I don't expect to ever get into the AAC or MWC, but assuming the Big XII leftovers fill those conferences up and we don't lose any CUSA members to them, I think a conference setup like this would be solid:

UTEP, NMSU, UTSA, Texas State, Rice, UNT, La Tech, ULL, Arky State, ULM, USM, and UAB

ODU, Marshall, WKU, Appy State, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, MUTS, Troy, USA, FIU, FAU, Ga State, and Ga Southern

Flip flop UAB and Middle and I can totally get 100% behind this. It would be a solid 12 member conference to be affiliated with moving forward.

wardly · August 23, 2017

I have been an EAGLE fan since my freshman year of 1961, a financial contributor since I established a career in the 70's, served on Foundation Board in 90's, and have been actively involved in football program beginning with Corky Nelson. Having said that, I'm tired. I don't want to meet anymore Athletic Directors, Head Coaches, or travel with the teams.[ although in traveling with them I always had a great time with wonderful stories. ] I will continue to purchase my Club Seats, attend most home games, and try to take an annual football road trip or bowl game.Other than that, at age 74+, I'm just done.The light at the end of the tunnel has looked like a train too long.It's time for you younger boys and girls to pick up the torch of optimism.

Aquila_Viridis · August 24, 2017

That is humbling. Thank you for helping to keep things going. So many factors influence the university's direction. I don't understand all of it but I feel somehow the eagle will rise.

GangGreen · August 24, 2017

On 8/22/2017 at 2:29 PM, Monkeypox said:

I guess it depends on from which end you're taking fan temperature.

Along this same line, most North Texas fans feel like they just discovered why there is a red and a blue thermometer after multiple uses.

outoftown · August 24, 2017

I voted no feeling. The part that has me optimistic is that UNT is clearly stepping up its financial commitment to athletics, and on paper hiring GM for basketball was the most sensible hire in a long time, indicating that WB might do decent hiring. However the three most important sports combine for one winning season in the last 5 years! And that financial commitment can quickly come to bite back. For example we may have raised and prolonged Littrell too early (particularly given the recruiting rankings) and with little need and if he doesn't manage to improve again and improve recruiting, UNT will have invested too much money to just get out of it easily and the new chancellor the board and president etc may at some point just decide that it isn't worth investing this much given the lack of success. We need successes soon to keep it up.

Edited August 24, 2017 by outoftown

TIgreen01 · August 24, 2017

Put me down somewhere in the vicinity of skeptical -> cautiously optimistic, but leaning more to the skeptic. I like the things I'm seeing on the field and in the AD, but I've been fooled by UNT before. Need to see it all come together and not end in a flash, but have some consistency before I truly believe in our "potential" again.

For now, I just like fall Saturdays in Denton. Like the late 90s when we'd spread out across 3 rows of bleachers , eating a lemon chill and watching bad football, I'm generally not that hard to please. That said, put a good, winning team on the field and fans in the stands and I'm on cloud nine.