Denton activist leads protest of Confederate statue on the Square

GTWT · August 25, 2017

2 hours ago, Aldo said:

Whatever you would like to believe the Civil War was about...whatever. The economics...of slavery. The politics...of slavery. The westward expansion...of slavery. States' rights...of slavery.

Complex? Sure. I've heard all the talking points for decades. This is nothing new to me as a person of color. I've been approached and exposed to it unwillingly many a time just because of what I look like.

When Lincoln won, the south lost all political control over the federal government. Because they felt they had the right to decided whatever they wanted on slavery. So they seceded from the United States.

As far as Confederate battle flags go. The increased prominence in the south - including government buildings - was a direct response to Brown v Board of Education, and other Supreme Court decisions. The State of Georgia did its own study and said as much. South Carolina did the same.

It wasn't a friggin secret.

The governor of Arkansas literally said "blood will run in the streets" if integration in schools happened. Then he closed schools after they continued with integration. That is what the Confederate battle flag represents. People who lived through that are still around today. It isn't something new that's popped up. It has continued to live on.

This isn't about heritage. What heritage and who's heritage are we talking about?

This isn't about political correctness. The Confederate battle flags rose to prominence as a protest and intimidation toward racial integration.

How do you think that makes us people of color feel? All they've got on me is what I look like. Not the content of my character or how my presence could potentially make their life a little brighter.

I certainly sympathize with the angst African American's feel when they see symbols & monuments they associate with people that treated them so shamefully. I don't know if my ancestors had slaves - I hope not. But if they did commit what for me - from my comfortable modern perspective - was a sin against humanity, that wasn't the only thing that defined them. They also loved their children, subsisted in a harsh wilderness, & fought in a terrible conflict. For all their faults they had qualities I admire. They had pride in their heritage & they loved their country (Texas or Virginia - not the federal government). They fought & they died & they had dignity in defeat.

I'm sorry the statues of Robert E. Lee offend you. I'm sorry the song Dixie seems derogatory to you. I understand, but I hope you understand that those things mean something different to me.

UNTLifer · August 25, 2017

Facts many don't know:

1. Why is there outrage now and not under the previous administration?

2. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-E-Lee

3. "Although history knows him mostly as “the Rebel General,” Lee was a disbeliever in slavery and secession and was devoutly attached to the republic that his father and kinsmen had helped bring into being. He was, moreover, very advanced in his rejection of war as a resolution of political conflicts—a fact that has been almost entirely ignored by posterity. As a U.S. Army colonel in Texas during the secession crises of late 1860, he wrote, “[If] strife and civil war are to take the place of brotherly love and kindness, I shall mourn for my country and for the welfare and progress of mankind.”

As the idol of a defeated people, Lee served as an example of fortitude and magnanimity during the ruin and dislocations, the anguish and bitterness of the war’s long aftermath. In those years, he became an enduring symbol to the Southern people of what was best in their heritage."

Aldo · August 25, 2017

3 hours ago, GTWT said:

This isn't about being offended. That's not where the discussion should be. (And not important but I'm Hispanic fwiw).

This about the normalization of a symbol. The history of that symbol is well documented, and claiming it being southern pride is being pretty dismissive of that history.

By the way, thanks everyone for being good debaters.