Group of 17 Explanation

Ben Gooding · August 10, 2017

8 minutes ago, letsgiveacheer said:

I just visited the current Mean Green Club page and besides being a bit of a mess, it appears the membership list has not been updated since June 2015.

http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/mg-club/ntex-mg-club-body.html

Of course it hasn't. Being a hold to the vest AD is a bad AD. No way around it. And it's not just MGC membership numbers, it's literally everything.

BTG_Fan1 · August 10, 2017

4 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

We don't know. But don't you think WB would be like, "Guys, we re-worked his contract because schools were sniffing around and we think we have the right guy in SL." Because if he doesn't put a statement out like that and we know that he didn't if that is in fact the case, it makes him look like how we looks with this whole facility thing and the Liberty series...incompetent. And something tells me that we would know if schools were sniffing around. Common sense says they wouldn't. But if they were, someone, the sniffing school or our school, would've caught wind of it and we would've heard about it. It was premature, but you will defend until you are blue in the face. And that's your prerogative.

To note, it doesn't matter what SL did in his first year or what he inherited. You don't extend after year 1 in a 5 year contract when this much uncertainty. If you want to give a raise, give it. But don't handcuff the program. I figured you knuckleheads would agree given what JUST happened to this program. But, no. It's crazy.

A 1 year is not handcuffing this program, we see other colleges that have coaches extended out to 5,6 or more years in some cases.. It is safe to say that with SL that he is going to here for at least 2 or 3 more even if the thing goes down hill, but I doubt that happens, and if he keep trending up he is out in that time with bigger programs more than willing to buy him out... Handcuffing a program is multiple bad contracts and buyouts... Again, WB re-did SL contract because of how poorly it was put together by RV that has been reported and said by WB to Vito, the whole SL going else where is not proven but is something that could happen down the road... With that being said if it does happen, I would like to hope that WB contract to SL is better for UNT in terms of buyout etc. compared to the SL/RV contract.

Dmac, RV, etc are handcuffs to the program... NOT SL, Gmac, WB (yet)... But again EVERYONE should agree that SL/Gmac/WB are light years ahead of Dmac/TB/RV

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

True but we have a pretty good idea as to why it happened. The guy lost a big chunk of his staff after leading a 1-win team to a bowl. You can spin that all day with the tired old G5 argument "well that means we're hiring great coaches" but it isn't good to have that happen so early in the regime. That type of key turnover so early on is concerning and can affect recruiting and many other things in terms of the building of the team itself. It probably made Litty feel like he was on an island. Secondly, we know that some power schools with big budgets could have been sniffing around. There are some OC's making >$1 Mill out there. Thirdly, Wren didn't hire Seth -- and while they may be the best of friends now, if I am Seth's agent I want financial assurances that I will be made whole if things go south which unfortunately has been our track record. What if Smatty gets a bigger gig? What if the new chancellor is related to Al Hurley? What if the job of a lifetime opens up. There are a lot of variables that have to be considered here.

Here are some pieces from the @Brett Vito article:

I think the thing that is interesting is that WB and NS put into the contract about them being present... You have to wonder, are they willing to be here long term and pass over other potential openings or was this something put in by SL camp to make him more affordable if they leave?

Ben Gooding · August 10, 2017

14 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

A 1 year is not handcuffing this program, we see other colleges that have coaches extended out to 5,6 or more years in some cases.. It is safe to say that with SL that he is going to here for at least 2 or 3 more even if the thing goes down hill, but I doubt that happens, and if he keep trending up he is out in that time with bigger programs more than willing to buy him out... Handcuffing a program is multiple bad contracts and buyouts... Again, WB re-did SL contract because of how poorly it was put together by RV that has been reported and said by WB to Vito, the whole SL going else where is not proven but is something that could happen down the road... With that being said if it does happen, I would like to hope that WB contract to SL is better for UNT in terms of buyout etc. compared to the SL/RV contract.

Dmac, RV, etc are handcuffs to the program... NOT SL, Gmac, WB (yet)... But again EVERYONE should agree that SL/Gmac/WB are light years ahead of Dmac/TB/RV

I think the thing that is interesting is that WB and NS put into the contract about them being present... You have to wonder, are they willing to be here long term and pass over other potential openings or was this something put in by SL camp to make him more affordable if they leave?

We don't know what we have in WB, SL, or GMAC. We hope for good results. But the sample size is too small for SL on the field. Off the field, we know exactly what we have in SL. With WB we have no idea what we have because 1) small sample size and 2) He won't discuss anything of importantance with his constituents. With GMAC, we have 0 sample size to speak of.

But, if our standard is to be better than RV, DM, and TB then we aren't asking for a whole hell of a lot.

UNTLifer · August 10, 2017

4 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

I know. That's what I was saying. Lifer was inferring that maybe someone could've possibly wanted him. I know we hired him. I meant no one wanted him after his 1st season here.

I didn't infer anything. You said we took SL and nobody wanted him.

Ben Gooding · August 10, 2017

2 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I didn't infer anything. You said we took SL and nobody wanted him.

Wrong. Go re-read.

UNTLifer · August 10, 2017

6 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

No one wanted SL. No one wanted DM. As a coach, I think most people have bought into SL. But on a dime, this program can flourish and take off or it can crash and burn 2015 style. When a program is in this kind of transition or instability or uncertainty, you don't hand out raises and extensions. It makes absolutely 0 sense.

Hmmm, what am I missing here. Your first sentence in the above clearly says, "No one wanted SL."

BTG_Fan1 · August 10, 2017

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

We don't know what we have in WB, SL, or GMAC. We hope for good results. But the sample size is too small for SL on the field. Off the field, we know exactly what we have in SL. With WB we have no idea what we have because 1) small sample size and 2) He won't discuss anything of importantance with his constituents. With GMAC, we have 0 sample size to speak of.

But, if our standard is to be better than RV, DM, and TB then we aren't asking for a whole hell of a lot.

WB, SL, Gmac are not the old guard of RV, TB and Dmac like you and other think...

These are guys that have been trending up and people that are young... And yes the sample sizes are small but you and others are acting like it has been set in stone that WB is just like RV because he hasn't put out the master plan yet, the man hasn't even been here 1 year yet! NS has more confidence in WB than in RV, and that is why he bought RV out... NS is paying for the sushi place on the square basically and for him to go home... WB has improved the facilities in terms of redoing the tennis courts with plans for more, approved a new Soccer/Track stadium, int he works for an IPF all in less than 1 year, on top of doing improvements to the athletic complex and offices, among other things that he has done.

You and others act like SL is a crap recruiter and it has been proven that the recruiting sites are not correct... SL has been here for what 16 months, and he took over a program that was on life-support.. SL turned a team that under mac got DESTROYED by Portland State, and yes you can say the WSU game as well but again it was the BIGGEST BLOW OUT ever... SL changed the culture of that team and brought in a staff that got basically the same group of guys to a bowl game and damn near won it

Gmac has yet to play a game but has gotten great reviews just like SL did from previous coaches he worked with and national media... He has brought in solid recruits as well...

Again.... I think darn near every single person on here would say we are in a better position today under WB/SL/Gmac than in the past under RV/Mac/TB.. Yes you can say that SL was an RV guy, but he never coached a game under him, and he was likely on the way out as well

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Hmmm, what am I missing here. Your first sentence in the above clearly says, "No one wanted SL."

The Russians typed that, not him...

Ben Gooding · August 10, 2017

14 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Hmmm, what am I missing here. Your first sentence in the above clearly says, "No one wanted SL."

IN REGARDS TO CONTRACT EXTENSIONS. Damn man.

14 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

WB, SL, Gmac are not the old guard of RV, TB and Dmac like you and other think...

These are guys that have been trending up and people that are young... And yes the sample sizes are small but you and others are acting like it has been set in stone that WB is just like RV because he hasn't put out the master plan yet, the man hasn't even been here 1 year yet! NS has more confidence in WB than in RV, and that is why he bought RV out... NS is paying for the sushi place on the square basically and for him to go home... WB has improved the facilities in terms of redoing the tennis courts with plans for more, approved a new Soccer/Track stadium, int he works for an IPF all in less than 1 year, on top of doing improvements to the athletic complex and offices, among other things that he has done.

You and others act like SL is a crap recruiter and it has been proven that the recruiting sites are not correct... SL has been here for what 16 months, and he took over a program that was on life-support.. SL turned a team that under mac got DESTROYED by Portland State, and yes you can say the WSU game as well but again it was the BIGGEST BLOW OUT ever... SL changed the culture of that team and brought in a staff that got basically the same group of guys to a bowl game and damn near won it

Gmac has yet to play a game but has gotten great reviews just like SL did from previous coaches he worked with and national media... He has brought in solid recruits as well...

Again.... I think darn near every single person on here would say we are in a better position today under WB/SL/Gmac than in the past under RV/Mac/TB.. Yes you can say that SL was an RV guy, but he never coached a game under him, and he was likely on the way out as well

The Russians typed that, not him...

image.jpeg.84844c24bf33cebd5f32120cd66fadf5.jpeg

Your brain...It's a mysterious one.

UNTLifer · August 11, 2017

6 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

IN REGARDS TO CONTRACT EXTENSIONS. Damn man.

Just took it how it was written. Must have missed the part about the extension. Oh, that's right, you didn't state that. Damn Christmas Turkey.

Edited August 11, 2017 by UNTLifer

UNT90 · August 11, 2017

On 8/9/2017 at 2:40 PM, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Pretty much 100% accurate, except that...he did get Apogee built. His weakness was hiring coaches.

But, history will - and, does in the archives here - show that many took RV's side in the Dickey feud. To this day, there are Darrell Dickey haters among the fan base. And, many - if not most - lauded his hiring of high school Todd Dodge. There were many here who thought Dodge should be allowed to coach out his contract.

Things turned sour after the 2014 football and basketball seasons. Before that, I think many here were still on his side.

I credit him with Apogee and upgrading a majority of the other athletic facilities. No one here can seriously look at the facilities the athletes had in 2001 when he took over and say we are worse off from that standpoint. He did get the 17 to help immensely in that area.

For better or worse, though, you are going to be judged by the on field performance of the football and men's basketball teams. It's just that way at the FBS level...and, most other levels. Outside of Johnny Jones' (RV's first big hire) five year run and Dickey's three years win streak and McCarney's record setting 2013 squad, there wasn't much there.

Benford and post-2013 McCarney pushed people over the edge...even the 17.

It didn't push you over the edge. You defended him to the end, only to suck up to the new guy the minute he stepped on campus.

so much for your loyalty, I guess. 😂😂😂😂

Adios, Mofos!

untjim1995 · August 11, 2017

RV did two things here that were a huge improvement and last to this day--1.) he opened up tailgating here. I know, what a genius...actually thinking tailgating for a football game in the state of Texas might gain some popularity and staying power--that's how bad the leadership was before he got here. 2.) He did schedule games against SMU, the one team that the majority of fans wanted us to play regularly.

Other than that, anybody with a grain of understanding of how to run an AD and hire coaches would have done a lot better here.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 11, 2017

11 hours ago, UNT90 said:

It didn't push you over the edge. You defended him to the end, only to suck up to the new guy the minute he stepped on campus.

so much for your loyalty, I guess. 😂😂😂😂

Adios, Mofos!

Wow...did you see UFOs land as well? I've criticized the new guy about dropping Army in favor Liberty and for giving Littrell a raise when he hasn't shown he can recruit any better than Dodge or McCarney. I am also not on board with the new guy wasting money on an IPF inasmuch as it has not been shown to give anyone a competitive advantage, college or pro.

You should change your definition of "sucking up"...or, at least pay attention to what is being posted. I've been skeptical of the new guy since he was hired, due to the challenge UNT athletics poses in general, having been behind for decades, combined with his inexperience. Liberty's AD stealing a home and home from him is simply the most visible example of this, so far. Although, giving Littrell $1 million a year to recruit FCS/Division II guys is a really close second.

Edited August 11, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

KRAM1 · August 11, 2017

11 hours ago, UNT90 said:

It didn't push you over the edge. You defended him to the end, only to suck up to the new guy the minute he stepped on campus.

so much for your loyalty, I guess. 😂😂😂😂

Adios, Mofos!

Did someone ring Froggy's chimes?