Group of 17 Explanation

[AustinFromUNT]

So as someone who is comparatively new to the whole UNT athletics scene could someone please explain to me in detail what the group of 17 is. I've seen it referenced several times but still have no clue what it even is. Thanks.

[forevereagle]

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

[MeanGreenTexan]

It's a dated reference to the Apogee-suite-level, mega-donors who supposedly appreciated their access to the goings-on within the AD (re: having RV's ear) more than seeing the program succeed.
I haven't really seen a reference to this same group of people in this kind of way since Wren showed up.

[All About UNT]

I would defer to my colleague, UNT90, on the explanation for that colloquial term

[Aldo]

No

Man I'm grumpy today

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

1 hour ago, AustinFromUNT said:

So as someone who is comparatively new to the whole UNT athletics scene could someone please explain to me in detail what the group of 17 is. I've seen it referenced several times but still have no clue what it even is. Thanks.

 

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, AustinFromUNT said:

So as someone who is comparatively new to the whole UNT athletics scene could someone please explain to me in detail what the group of 17 is. I've seen it referenced several times but still have no clue what it even is. Thanks.

Back under RV's tenure, during the last 5 years especially, their were 17 top donors, according to one that posted a lot back a few years ago, who basically funded almost anything over the university's funding to help RV get facilities improved or built, as well as to help pay other stuff. In return, RV gave them access to everything, while knowing the BOR wouldn't do anything to his job since he was always in their acceptable budget.

it was a very shrewd setup by RV, but they couldn't keep it up when the three revenue programs simultaneously sucked something fierce under RV's leadership. RV couldn't hire a good coach for the sports that matter and it FINALLY caught up to him. Even the UNT 17 couldn't support him any longer, finally realizing he had sold them a bill of goods. And that's how we got rid of RV and brought in Wren Baker.

[NM Green]

Next question .  Should Canales have been given a shot at the head coach position? Kaboom!

As the Mean Green World turns.  Almost as much drama in a short period of time as the current administration.  Mean Green roots weathered and strong! 

GMG

[UNTLifer]

Yet, when presssed for names, the Secret 17 were never revealed.

[Aldo]

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Yet, when presssed for names, the Secret 17 were never revealed.

I am S-

[UNTLifer]

6 minutes ago, Aldo said:

I am S-

I heard they were old guard, but didn't realize they were that old.  :)

Edited August 9, 2017 by UNTLifer

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

41 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Back under RV's tenure, during the last 5 years especially, their were 17 top donors, according to one that posted a lot back a few years ago, who basically funded almost anything over the university's funding to help RV get facilities improved or built, as well as to help pay other stuff. In return, RV gave them access to everything, while knowing the BOR wouldn't do anything to his job since he was always in their acceptable budget.

it was a very shrewd setup by RV, but they couldn't keep it up when the three revenue programs simultaneously sucked something fierce under RV's leadership. RV couldn't hire a good coach for the sports that matter and it FINALLY caught up to him. Even the UNT 17 couldn't support him any longer, finally realizing he had sold them a bill of goods. And that's how we got rid of RV and brought in Wren Baker.

Pretty much 100% accurate, except that...he did get Apogee built.  His weakness was hiring coaches. 

But, history will - and, does in the archives here - show that many took RV's side in the Dickey feud.  To this day, there are Darrell Dickey haters among the fan base.  And, many - if not most - lauded his hiring of high school Todd Dodge.  There were many here who thought Dodge should be allowed to coach out his contract. 

Things turned sour after the 2014 football and basketball seasons.  Before that, I think many here were still on his side. 

I credit him with Apogee and upgrading a majority of the other athletic facilities.  No one here can seriously look at the facilities the athletes had in 2001 when he took over and say we are worse off from that standpoint.  He did get the 17 to help immensely in that area.

For better or worse, though, you are going to be judged by the on field performance of the football and men's basketball teams.  It's just that way at the FBS level...and, most other levels.  Outside of Johnny Jones' (RV's first big hire) five year run and Dickey's three years win streak and McCarney's record setting 2013 squad, there wasn't much there. 

Benford and post-2013 McCarney pushed people over the edge...even the 17.

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[Ben Gooding]

A simple way to word this - A group of wealthy donors acting as insulation to RV. 

RV's head coaching hire record was/is downright pathetic. How people lauded him and stood by his side is textbook THE problem at UNT. Many of the same cronies of that regime within the AD are still running amuck. Many on this very board still openly support RV, unjokingly. 

[Mean Green 93-98]

A group of generous donors on which UNT athletics depends.

[MeanGreenTexan]

7 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

A group of generous donors on which UNT athletics depends.

This is the bottom line.

[southsideguy]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Pretty much 100% accurate, except that...he did get Apogee built.  His weakness was hiring coaches. 

But, history will - and, does in the archives here - show that many took RV's side in the Dickey feud.  To this day, there are Darrell Dickey haters among the fan base.  And, many - if not most - lauded his hiring of high school Todd Dodge.  There were many here who thought Dodge should be allowed to coach out his contract. 

Things turned sour after the 2014 football and basketball seasons.  Before that, I think many here were still on his side. 

I credit him with Apogee and upgrading a majority of the other athletic facilities.  No one here can seriously look at the facilities the athletes had in 2001 when he took over and say we are worse off from that standpoint.  He did get the 17 to help immensely in that area.

For better or worse, though, you are going to be judged by the on field performance of the football and men's basketball teams.  It's just that way at the FBS level...and, most other levels.  Outside of Johnny Jones' (RV's first big hire) five year run and Dickey's three years win streak and McCarney's record setting 2013 squad, there wasn't much there. 

Benford and post-2013 McCarney pushed people over the edge...even the 17.

 

but he couldn't kill fouts field, i am not sure anyone can. 

[Harry]

Interesting side note, to my understanding there were exactly 17 donor suites (out of 21 total) in Apogee stadium.

[GrandGreen]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Pretty much 100% accurate, except that...he did get Apogee built.  His weakness was hiring coaches. 

But, history will - and, does in the archives here - show that many took RV's side in the Dickey feud.  To this day, there are Darrell Dickey haters among the fan base.  And, many - if not most - lauded his hiring of high school Todd Dodge.  There were many here who thought Dodge should be allowed to coach out his contract. 

Things turned sour after the 2014 football and basketball seasons.  Before that, I think many here were still on his side. 

I credit him with Apogee and upgrading a majority of the other athletic facilities.  No one here can seriously look at the facilities the athletes had in 2001 when he took over and say we are worse off from that standpoint.  He did get the 17 to help immensely in that area.

For better or worse, though, you are going to be judged by the on field performance of the football and men's basketball teams.  It's just that way at the FBS level...and, most other levels.  Outside of Johnny Jones' (RV's first big hire) five year run and Dickey's three years win streak and McCarney's record setting 2013 squad, there wasn't much there. 

Benford and post-2013 McCarney pushed people over the edge...even the 17.

 

RV certainly could not take any credit for DD's success, he didn't hire or support him.    

I also would limit my praise of RV's relative to facilities.   I give him credit for Apogee although I question the low level of donations that went into the construction.   Overall NT facilities are better than when RV started, however he was here for over 15 years.   Other than Apogee,  most of the RV''s adds were hardly first class and all apparently were very poorly maintained.   

The 17 as stated referred to NT's biggest financial supporters.   Some backed RV to the end, but I doubt it was anywhere close to 17.  Most are now demonstrating that they were always NT supporters first and that is what is important.  

The so-called 17 were villainized by a few on here because they supported RV or Benford.  Something I don't understand, heavy donors are the backbone of any college athletic department and they certainly can support  the people or projects they chose.     

 

[Ben Gooding]

4 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

RV certainly could not take any credit for DD's success, he didn't hire or support him.    

I also would limit my praise of RV's relative to facilities.   I give him credit for Apogee although I question the low level of donations that went into the construction.   Overall NT facilities are better than when RV started, however he was here for over 15 years.   Other than Apogee,  most of the RV''s adds were hardly first class and all apparently were very poorly maintained.   

The 17 as stated referred to NT's biggest financial supporters.   Some backed RV to the end, but I doubt it was anywhere close to 17.  Most are now demonstrating that they were always NT supporters first and that is what is important.  

The so-called 17 were villainized by a few on here because they supported RV or Benford.  Something I don't understand, heavy donors are the backbone of any college athletic department and they certainly can support  the people or projects they chose.     

 

Well, apparently you do understand. 

[TreeFiddy]

4 hours ago, NM Green said:

Next question .  Should Canales have been given a shot at the head coach position? Kaboom!

As the Mean Green World turns.  Almost as much drama in a short period of time as the current administration.  Mean Green roots weathered and strong! 

GMG

You mean the architect of the most prolific offense in the history of UNT football, with 5,336 total yards?  The guy who also oversaw the 5th most prolific offense in UNT history with 4.751 yards in 2012?  All while working for a head coach that was characterized as running a 1950's offense?

Nah, probably not.

[untjim1995]

What nobody in the world could ever explain was why these guys, all incredibly successful business men, saw so much value in watching us roll out the absolute suckitude we did while they were forking over all that dough. 

But in the end, and all that matters, is that they ponied up the money to get rid of Mac after the most embarrassing loss in modern college football history and it eventually got rid of RV, an albatross that I truly believed would stay for as long as he wanted. It really shocked me that we finally decided to get rid of the guy, even if it was about five years later than they should have allowed him to stay as AD.

[North Texas Shep]

I think I met one of the 17 recently... For the sake of my family, I must stay silent. Sorry, my green brothers. 

[GrandGreen]

2 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

What nobody in the world could ever explain was why these guys, all incredibly successful business men, saw so much value in watching us roll out the absolute suckitude we did while they were forking over all that dough. 

But in the end, and all that matters, is that they ponied up the money to get rid of Mac after the most embarrassing loss in modern college football history and it eventually got rid of RV, an albatross that I truly believed would stay for as long as he wanted. It really shocked me that we finally decided to get rid of the guy, even if it was about five years later than they should have allowed him to stay as AD.

Did donors covered the expense of dismissing either/or RV and McCarney?  If they did, it is news to me. 

As far as your first statement, really is easy to judge something in hind-sight.  RV was a questionable hire from the get-go, however a lot on this board were big supporters for a long time.

 I really wonder why you see these donors as supporting RV instead of NT.   I guess the improvement to the Pit, the new basketball facility, etc. where not a benefit to the University and did not aid the progress of the athletic department.   Maybe their motivation was to try and get NT's out of that state of suckitude by investing in NT.    

 

 

[Salsa_Verde]

One of the secret 17 emerges