DRC: Video -- Littrell talks about Saturday scrimmage, plus Monday notes

[Green Crazy]

5 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Fine has struggled.. and it will likely continue.. it's not about IF, it's about WHEN

And I would not be surprised, if Quinn was the #2.. but Izzy is has traits that are more appealing than Quinn. 

Just out of curiosity, what makes you so sure?

[BTG_Fan1]

1 hour ago, Green Crazy said:

Just out of curiosity, what makes you so sure?

What makes me so sure he will struggle? 

1- He regressed as the year went along last year.

2- Spring game he looked good then bad in other parts.

3- The height combined with a still patch-worked OL.. 

4- The size and him getting banged up a # of times last year.

5- If he is struggling and our OL as well vs. just our own defense that is worriesome because A) they lack confidence or B) they truly can't not match up with them now, just wait till the regular season when teams unleash new formations, blitz, etc 

[Cr1028]

15 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Fine has struggled.. and it will likely continue.. it's not about IF, it's about WHEN

And I would not be surprised, if Quinn was the #2.. but Izzy is has traits that are more appealing than Quinn. 

How dare a true freshman struggle with the transition from 3a Oklahoma ball to FBS level ball 3-4 months removed from high school. No time in a college strength program, 3 months to learn the playbook and the timing. Nah, that couldn't have anything to do with it. He was was on the freshman all-CUSA team but let's put him in the scrap heap because he isn't 6'5" and hasn't spent time putting numbers up against juco JAGs or riding the pine at other 4yr schools.

Sounds like he has the traits that made quarterbacks appealing to McCarney. (height)

Edited August 8, 2017 by Cr1028

[southsideguy]

i just want the best qb on the field no matter who it is.  when you are power running team you can get by with an average qb but with a spread you need qb who can throw the ball well pretty much all game long. I can never tell if or offense is good or if defense bad or vice versa because we are playing ourselves in the scrimmages. I hope the mean is back in the defense.

[Green Crazy]

9 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What makes me so sure he will struggle? 

1- He regressed as the year went along last year.

2- Spring game he looked good then bad in other parts.

3- The height combined with a still patch-worked OL.. 

4- The size and him getting banged up a # of times last year.

5- If he is struggling and our OL as well vs. just our own defense that is worriesome because A) they lack confidence or B) they truly can't not match up with them now, just wait till the regular season when teams unleash new formations, blitz, etc 

ok, so it's not just him that worries you, but the o-line combined with him.  i too worry about the o-line and if they struggle then any qb back there will stuggle.  i personally think he will be better this year, but i'm not sure how much.  i'm guessing somewhere in the area of 2300 to 2600 yards and 16 or so tds to 9 ints.

 

however, i'd argue that he progressed during the season last year.  not counting the smu game or the western kentucky game (partial games) his numbers (completion %, qbr, rushing and passing yards) got better except for td to int ratio, 2-1 in the first 4 vs. 4-4 in the last 4.

[untjim1995]

11 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Yup. 

I hate bad QB play, so I am a hater. 

I feel bad for you on this. You've literally never seen good UNT QB play here. Average is the ceiling for what you've seen. Fine is better than Morris, McNulty, Greer, Damarcus Smith, Dajon Williams, Quinn Shanbour, Caleb Chumley, Isadore, and any other QB we have had on this roster since 2014. And Derek Thompson was the QB before that for two years, so again, average has been your ceiling for watching UNT QBs.

It is what it is. Until legitimate FBS caliber QBs want to come here and both play AND go to class, this is what the situation will continue to be. You're gonna have to watch us take short QBs, taller QBs with slow feet or less than strong/accurate arms, or QBs from JUCOs that always seem to have questions/concerns. That pretty much covers up almost every QB we have had other than Gio Vizza in the last 10 years.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

16 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

You have to be joking.  The kid didn't win the starting job at Angelo State as a true freshman.  Big deal.  How many true freshmen do this?   Have you seen him play/practice?  If not, you  make a lot of assumptions about his ability.

Yeah, okay.  Sam Bradford at Oklahoma comes to mind.  Jamies Winston at FSU.  Johnny Manziel at A&M.  All either freshmen or redshirt freshmen who managed to wrangle starting jobs at some pretty big schools.

Isadore couldn't even compete at Angelo State a Division II school.  And, people here are excited about that?

We have ridiculous talent issues at QB.  When you talk about Fine, Shanbour, Isadore, Cason, or O'Hara, you are talking about guys who weren't even getting offers from many FCS schools, if any.

Pearson had four FCS offers, plus one from Wyoming, and one from us.

We're not, with any of them, dealing with QBs anyone else in the country on the FBS level was clamoring for.  Of the six QBs on the roster.  Only one, Pearson, held another FBS offer - again, Wyoming - and that is it.

It's a problem.  A real problem.  Whether or not Fine is healthy or injured makes no difference - no one behind him was thought of as an FBS-level talent either. 

These QBs who have transferred in looked at us as the lowest common denominator...and, they still are not competing for the starting job, even after leaving the FCS and Division II schools for the JUCOs.

So,  we're simply finding out what Angelo State and Western Illinois coaches already knew about Isadore and O'Hara - they aren't college QBs.  Period. 

And, Shanbour...can we please give this a break?  How many times, with as thin a roster of QBs as we've had since he's arrived, has he managed to not win the job?  Every year.  He was a 2012 prep? 

Come on, folks.  You are arguing about what amounts to nothing:  None of them, outside of Pearson, should even be on the roster...and, Peason, ain't exactly lighting it up either...precisely as recruiting foreshadowed.

Unless a real, bona fide superstar receiver emerges, 2017's offense will be the same as 2016:  As Jeffery Wilson goes, so goes the Mean Green...and pray for decent defense and special teams again.

11 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What makes me so sure he will struggle? 

1- He regressed as the year went along last year.

2- Spring game he looked good then bad in other parts.

3- The height combined with a still patch-worked OL.. 

4- The size and him getting banged up a # of times last year.

5- If he is struggling and our OL as well vs. just our own defense that is worriesome because A) they lack confidence or B) they truly can't not match up with them now, just wait till the regular season when teams unleash new formations, blitz, etc 

#6 - WR corps, as Coach Littrell himself lamented last month.  No one can run consistently good routes, or fight for the ball when necessary.  And, with a QB as small as Fine, it's going to be necessary a whole lot.  Got to have guys with clocks in their head to know when to fight back towards their little QB...who hasn't gotten the ball out yet.

[untjim1995]

25 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

 

#6 - WR corps, as Coach Littrell himself lamented last month.  No one can run consistently good routes, or fight for the ball when necessary.  And, with a QB as small as Fine, it's going to be necessary a whole lot.  Got to have guys with clocks in their head to know when to fight back towards their little QB...who hasn't gotten the ball out yet.

This tells you all you need to know about the roster still being inexperienced at playing in this spread offense. You either have new HS kids learning on the fly or college kids who played under McCarney who were used to running the very difficult route known as the bubble screen on 3rd down...

That this thing won 5 games last year still amazes me.

[BTG_Fan1]

27 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

This tells you all you need to know about the roster still being inexperienced at playing in this spread offense. You either have new HS kids learning on the fly or college kids who played under McCarney who were used to running the very difficult route known as the bubble screen on 3rd down...

That this thing won 5 games last year still amazes me.

It shows that SL and the staff that he had could coach up kids, not the question is can these new guys and people in new spots keep that up?

You can have a talented team but if you can't coach, nothing will happen.. Look at UT with all the talent under Charlie Strong they still did nothing (Yes it is one case, but still very apparent)... In the NFL look at Cleveland and Jacksonville with all the high draft picks and no success..

Coaching is the most important, with recruiting be 2nd.

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Yeah, okay.  Sam Bradford at Oklahoma comes to mind.  Jamies Winston at FSU.  Johnny Manziel at A&M.  All either freshmen or redshirt freshmen who managed to wrangle starting jobs at some pretty big schools.

Isadore couldn't even compete at Angelo State a Division II school.  And, people here are excited about that?

We have ridiculous talent issues at QB.  When you talk about Fine, Shanbour, Isadore, Cason, or O'Hara, you are talking about guys who weren't even getting offers from many FCS schools, if any.

Pearson had four FCS offers, plus one from Wyoming, and one from us.

We're not, with any of them, dealing with QBs anyone else in the country on the FBS level was clamoring for.  Of the six QBs on the roster.  Only one, Pearson, held another FBS offer - again, Wyoming - and that is it.

It's a problem.  A real problem.  Whether or not Fine is healthy or injured makes no difference - no one behind him was thought of as an FBS-level talent either. 

These QBs who have transferred in looked at us as the lowest common denominator...and, they still are not competing for the starting job, even after leaving the FCS and Division II schools for the JUCOs.

So,  we're simply finding out what Angelo State and Western Illinois coaches already knew about Isadore and O'Hara - they aren't college QBs.  Period. 

And, Shanbour...can we please give this a break?  How many times, with as thin a roster of QBs as we've had since he's arrived, has he managed to not win the job?  Every year.  He was a 2012 prep? 

Come on, folks.  You are arguing about what amounts to nothing:  None of them, outside of Pearson, should even be on the roster...and, Peason, ain't exactly lighting it up either...precisely as recruiting foreshadowed.

Unless a real, bona fide superstar receiver emerges, 2017's offense will be the same as 2016:  As Jeffery Wilson goes, so goes the Mean Green...and pray for decent defense and special teams again.

#6 - WR corps, as Coach Littrell himself lamented last month.  No one can run consistently good routes, or fight for the ball when necessary.  And, with a QB as small as Fine, it's going to be necessary a whole lot.  Got to have guys with clocks in their head to know when to fight back towards their little QB...who hasn't gotten the ball out yet.

That's 75-80% of all of our commits since SL got on board. 

 

And evething you said is deadly accurate. And NO ONE wants to hear it. They want so badly for this "perception", "narrative", or "rhetoric" to die off. But it's not going to. Even if the assholes pointing it out over and over (like me) decide to pack up and leave, there will be others to point it out until it's fixed because it's a glaring and blinding bruise on this coaching staff that is impossible to look over. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Ben Gooding

[BTG_Fan1]

On 8/7/2017 at 7:06 PM, dd992emo said:

Speculation presented as fact. Are you an academic? Because speculation as fact and name-calling (which I have not seen you do) are what academics do when they don't have a point. Of course Fine struggles at times. Everyone does. People who win football games struggle, but overcome it. Littrell gets paid to decide who gives him the best chance to win. I don't think he looks at guys and says to himself "I'm going to start this guy because he looks like a college QB." I think he starts the guy who he thinks gives his team the best chance to win.

When I said he struggled and likely would continue it was about Fines inability to fix the same mistakes that he would make over and over last year, which was hold the ball to long instead of throwing it away, or just flat out holding it to long and taken an unneeded hit.. 

He will continue to struggle this year if he isn't able to develop simple things like instead of forcing the ball, throw it away.. throw it away and avoid the big hit among other issues a he needed to fix.

I do agree SL gets paid to make those choices and he has more experience than all of us. But he can not lock into 1 guy like last year. It was difficult to watch and even listen some games because Fine did not progress/regressed last year. Maybe SL stayed with Fine to give him experience on top of the other QBs not being worthy last year and because Morris was a 1 season guy, I get that... but again this year we seem to have more options, Quinn/Izzy/Pearson with more in the pipeline in Bean and Martin. Just don't want us to get locked into 1 guy and he sucks or doesn't improve.