Isadore officially back in the UNT QB mix?

MeanGreenTexan · August 7, 2017

14 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

To me, O'Hara was brought in for depth only. Once Littrell arrived and realized what he had to work with, he went and signed Fine and found an available JUCO for depth. I would argue that Berglund and Osborne were brought in to play and compete for the starting spot by a staff that had been in place a couple of years. Either way, you don't eliminate someone because they took the JUCO route, you should evaluate the player. Based on your opinion, we would have dismissed people like Cam Newton and Colt Brennan.

Interesting article from Athlon Sports. Look who is #14.

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-20-impact-juco-transfer-quarterbacks-2017

Why would a coach bring anyone in if they didn't think the player could help them win games? Can't win games signing guys you only view as "depth"... especially when it's a JUCO and the guy he'd be "depth" behind is a tiny little Freshman from Locust Grove, OK whom Littrell has repeatedly said he would have liked to have redshirted. If anyone is brought in specifically to provide "depth", and not challenge to win games for you, the coaches need to go.

Cam Newton? No. Not "based on my opinion..." Context is important in all of this.
Cam Newton was the #2-ranked QB in his Senior class, and signed at Florida. He was going to punch his ticket to any school he wanted when he was done at Navarro. Isadore signed with Angelo St. out of H.S. Context.
Colt Brennan, although a blast from the past, is a much better comparison. A true diamond-in-the-rough. That kind of guy is not common. You willing to stick your neck out and say Isadore will be as good as Brennan?

Again, it's all moot since Littrell himself has eliminated him from the competition.

BTG_Fan1 · August 7, 2017

O'Hara likely was just another arm that they saw could possibly get us something or maybe it was get O'Hara and you get Jackson, we don't know..

Izzy was a 3* recruit with looks from Baylor... Give me Izzy any day over O'Hara

Cr1028 · August 7, 2017

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

He's getting too many valuable reps to maintain at #3. And he's too much of a physical specimen not to take advantage of these reps.

Physical specimen doesn't mean jack if you can't hit the open receivers and take care of the football. Damarcus Smith was a physical specimen with higher rankings and stats than Isadore and he was awful.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Cr1028

BTG_Fan1 · August 7, 2017

38 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Why would a coach bring anyone in if they didn't think the player could help them win games? Can't win games signing guys you only view as "depth"... especially when it's a JUCO and the guy he'd be "depth" behind is a tiny little Freshman from Locust Grove, OK whom Littrell has repeatedly said he would have liked to have redshirted. If anyone is brought in specifically to provide "depth", and not challenge to win games for you, the coaches need to go.

Cam Newton? No. Not "based on my opinion..." Context is important in all of this.
Cam Newton was the #2-ranked QB in his Senior class, and signed at Florida. He was going to punch his ticket to any school he wanted when he was done at Navarro. Isadore signed with Angelo St. out of H.S. Context.
Colt Brennan, although a blast from the past, is a much better comparison. A true diamond-in-the-rough. That kind of guy is not common. You willing to stick your neck out and say Isadore will be as good as Brennan?

Again, it's all moot since Littrell himself has eliminated him from the competition.

SL and GH needed arms from practice. O'Hara they thought could develop but hasn't shown anything.

Am I missing anyone but isn't Quinn the only QB on the roster from before SL.. Morris, Fine, Cason, O'Hara all came under The new staff. There was a major need at QB depth.

Just now, Cr1028 said:

Physical specimen doesn't mean jack if you can't hit the open receivers and take care of the football. Damarcus Smith was a physical specimen with higher rankings and stats than Isadore and he was way worse than Mason Fine or Shanbour.

It has worked out for Cam Newton.. just saying

MeanGreenTexan · August 7, 2017

5 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

O'Hara likely was just another arm that they saw could possibly get us something or maybe it was get O'Hara and you get Jackson, we don't know..

Izzy was a 3* recruit with looks from Baylor... Give me Izzy any day over O'Hara

To be clear, I agree. I'm just saying, there is a tried-and-true trap around here where a guy comes in... looks great in practice... has all the intangibles you'd want... but isn't quite the guy you hoped for when the game is being played.

Just now, BTG_Fan1 said:

SL and GH needed arms from practice. O'Hara they thought could develop but hasn't shown anything.

Am I missing anyone but isn't Quinn the only QB on the roster from before SL.. Morris, Fine, Cason, O'Hara all came under The new staff. There was a major need at QB depth.

I say this with tongue firmly in cheek: Connor Means & Caleb Chumley.

Aldo · August 7, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Based on your opinion, we would have dismissed people like Cam Newton and Colt Brennan.

Whoa tap the brakes. Not quite the same, and I get what you're trying to do.

Brennan and Cam had more conference and national championships at the JUCO level than any of our guys put together.

Isadore is a good get, not just for depth, but we got to see what we're working with first.

ETA: I seem to be a page behind

Cr1028 · August 7, 2017

2 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

SL and GH needed arms from practice. O'Hara they thought could develop but hasn't shown anything.

Am I missing anyone but isn't Quinn the only QB on the roster from before SL.. Morris, Fine, Cason, O'Hara all came under The new staff. There was a major need at QB depth.

It has worked out for Cam Newton.. just saying

Cam Newton was a 5 star recruit out of high school. Cam Newton won the backup job to Heisman-winner Tim Tebow as a true freshman. Cam Newton was kicked out of Florida for theft. Cam Newton would have never stepped foot in a junior college if he hadn't been thrown out of Florida, so in that regard I guess yea juco worked out for Cam Newton.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Cr1028

UNTLifer · August 7, 2017

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Whoa tap the brakes. Not quite the same, and I get what you're trying to do.

Brennan and Cam had more conference and national championships at the JUCO level than any of our guys put together.

Isadore is a good get, not just for depth, but we got to see what we're working with first.

ETA: I seem to be a page behind

I understand and agree with what you are saying completely, but I was making a point to MeanGreenTexan who wants to write off recruits just because they come to us via JUCO instead of rating the player.

BTG_Fan1 · August 8, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

I understand and agree with what you are saying completely, but I was making a point to MeanGreenTexan who wants to write off recruits just because they come to us via JUCO instead of rating the player.

Doesn't make sense to write of Izzy, when he was the higher rated QB in the class compared to Pearson..

Only differences is 1 has 4 years to play and on scholarship compared to 2 years and is a PWO... oh and the PWO is the higher rated player

MeanGreenTexan · August 8, 2017

13 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I understand and agree with what you are saying completely, but I was making a point to MeanGreenTexan who wants to write off recruits just because they come to us via JUCO instead of rating the player.

Not "writing off". Tempering expectations. As in, I don't expect this guy to wrestle the starting job or the backup job away from Fine/Shanbour. And my citation is the bevvy of other transfers that also could not start, outside of Smith. As I've said, I like him. But when the topic is "Isadore officially back in the QB mix?"... my answer is, "no".

There are 105 guys on the roster. There are 22 starters & 22 backups. Not every player can be a starter/backup. Isadore needs to know his role, be prepared, and keep working.

Cr1028 · August 8, 2017

12 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Doesn't make sense to write of Izzy, when he was the higher rated QB in the class compared to Pearson..

Only differences is 1 has 4 years to play and on scholarship compared to 2 years and is a PWO... oh and the PWO is the higher rated player

But who had more offers? Out of high school who was rated higher? I assure you if Cade were to transfer out and play 2 years of juco, he'd be rated above what Isadore was.

14 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Not "writing off". Tempering expectations. As in, I don't expect this guy to wrestle the starting job or the backup job away from Fine/Shanbour. And my citation is the bevvy of other transfers that also could not start, outside of Smith.

Was Smith really a starter though? He only got handed the reigns in a last ditch effort by Chico to get the HC job because he knew mini and Greer weren't gonna get it done and he refused to consider Shanbour as a real option other than assistant qb coach. Smith wasn't even good enough to stay on the roster when the new sheriff got to town.

MeanGreenTexan · August 8, 2017

11 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Was Smith really a starter though? He only got handed the reigns in a last ditch effort by Chico to get the HC job because he knew mini and Greer weren't gonna get it done and he refused to consider Shanbour as a real option other than assistant qb coach. Smith wasn't even good enough to stay on the roster when the new sheriff got to town.

When Chico took over, he made Smith the starter. He started several games at the coach's discretion. He was a "starter".

Smith decided hosting/sponsoring hoodrat parties in Louisville was more important than playing football/getting a degree. He's up there with Vizza for me.

Cr1028 · August 8, 2017

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

When Chico took over, he made Smith the starter. He started several games at the coach's discretion. He was a "starter".

Smith decided hosting/sponsoring hoodrat parties in Louisville was more important than playing football/getting a degree. He's up there with Vizza for me.

But Smith couldn't complete a pass or run the ball without fumbling, surely you don't dislike Vizza THAT much to lump him in with one of the worst starting QBs we've had.

MeanGreenTexan · August 8, 2017

7 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

But Smith couldn't complete a pass or run the ball without fumbling, surely you don't dislike Vizza THAT much to lump him in with one of the worst starting QBs we've had.

They're both 'transferers' to me. Going gets tough? Leave!

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · August 8, 2017

3 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

But who had more offers? Out of high school who was rated higher? I assure you if Cade were to transfer out and play 2 years of juco, he'd be rated above what Isadore was.

Was Smith really a starter though? He only got handed the reigns in a last ditch effort by Chico to get the HC job because he knew mini and Greer weren't gonna get it done and he refused to consider Shanbour as a real option other than assistant qb coach. Smith wasn't even good enough to stay on the roster when the new sheriff got to town.

Remember, Smith was so good, he didn't need to study film or the playbook. That's how good he was. And, Dajon as well. I also think it was Dajon who wasn't putting in time in the weight room, if memory serves correct.

The very least you can say about Fine is that he at least does the things off the field that a starting QB should do. God bless him, he's just not big enough to be consistent QB at the FBS level. But, you can't fault him for off the field preparation/leadership.

Wish to heaven we had a real QB so Fine could be moved into the slot, and return kicks and punts.

BTG_Fan1 · August 8, 2017

3 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

But who had more offers? Out of high school who was rated higher? I assure you if Cade were to transfer out and play 2 years of juco, he'd be rated above what Isadore was.

We have guys with more offers than some UTSA guys for example, Rivers at UTSA and Pearson.. Rivers according to 24/7 was a 3* and had 0 other offers.. Pearson had 4 other offers (even if they weren't D1, he had offers) and he was rated lower..

We have people who complain saying the offer lists are not good enough, but yet that doesn't weigh into the player rating apparently... We say we want higher rated kids but yet we discount the highest rated QB in the room as fans? We can say that Izzy is out, but wasn't SL saying basically all the same things about Morris last year and that he is saying about Fine now??? Morris lasted 3 Quarters of the 1st game!!!

We can deal with hypotheticals in where would Pearson rank/rate compared to Izzy.... Heck in 2 years if Pearson was so good, how do we even know if we could get him?? But the point is Izzy as of now is the highest rated QB we have... He has more experience playing in college (even if its JUCO) compared to Pearson and he was ranked a lot higher (likely) than Quinn and Fine. None of these QBs have proven anything, if anything they all have proven they are injury-prone with Fine Shoulder, Izzy Knee, O'Hara Shoulder, and Quinn's (toe, I believe) that lead him into getting an additional Medical RS year..

The QB job should NOT be just between Quinn and Fine, it should be a completely open competition because NO ONE has proven a thing here. Just like the back up RB job

MeanGreenTexan · August 8, 2017

11 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We have guys with more offers than some UTSA guys for example, Rivers at UTSA and Pearson.. Rivers according to 24/7 was a 3* and had 0 other offers.. Pearson had 4 other offers (even if they weren't D1, he had offers) and he was rated lower..

We have people who complain saying the offer lists are not good enough, but yet that doesn't weigh into the player rating apparently... We say we want higher rated kids but yet we discount the highest rated QB in the room as fans? We can say that Izzy is out, but wasn't SL saying basically all the same things about Morris last year and that he is saying about Fine now??? Morris lasted 3 Quarters of the 1st game!!!

We can deal with hypotheticals in where would Pearson rank/rate compared to Izzy.... Heck in 2 years if Pearson was so good, how do we even know if we could get him?? But the point is Izzy as of now is the highest rated QB we have... He has more experience playing in college (even if its JUCO) compared to Pearson and he was ranked a lot higher (likely) than Quinn and Fine. None of these QBs have proven anything, if anything they all have proven they are injury-prone with Fine Shoulder, Izzy Knee, O'Hara Shoulder, and Quinn's (toe, I believe) that lead him into getting an additional Medical RS year..

The QB job should NOT be just between Quinn and Fine, it should be a completely open competition because NO ONE has proven a thing here. Just like the back up RB job

You're arguing to a group of jackals that have no sway, one way or the other on Isadore's chances to start.
Littrell has already eliminated Isadore from the starting job competition.
Do we trust Littrell/Harrell with the 2 guys they have deemed worthy of being considered?
Or, is anyone here smart enough to know Isadore should start ahead of Fine/Shanbour... coaches' thoughts be damned?

BTG_Fan1 · August 8, 2017

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

You're arguing to a group of jackals that have no sway, one way or the other on Isadore's chances to start.
Littrell has already eliminated Isadore from the starting job competition.
Do we trust Littrell/Harrell with the 2 guys they have deemed worthy of being considered?
Or, is anyone here smart enough to know Isadore should start ahead of Fine/Shanbour... coaches' thoughts be damned?

You are right that no one has any sway in the debate, but it we have no idea if he (SL) has eliminated Izzy...

Last year the talk was on Morris and Fine, because they were the big names... Izzy should be talked about but has been overlooked because of his injury and not playing in the spring game, while Pearson played and looked as good or better than Quinn and Fine...

SL has said he wants to RS QBs, and he will have his chance with Pearon with him having Quinn, Izzy, and Fine as guys who have either played or can't be RS...

Yes this is all speculation on our part and either SL/GH will come out as knowing it all if this offense works but if it doesn't work out and it struggles it will lead to us wondering of what could have been... But I have A LOT more trust in the SL and the staff than I did in Macs staff, but again the negative mark for Macs staff is greater alone because of the Portland State game...

Mean Green 93-98 · August 8, 2017

6 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

a last ditch effort by Chico to get the HC job

Chico made it very clear when he became interim the 2nd time around that he had no interest whatsoever in the HC gig.

Cr1028 · August 8, 2017

25 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Chico made it very clear when he became interim the 2nd time around that he had no interest whatsoever in the HC gig.