Next Recruit Speculation

UNTLifer · August 8, 2017

24 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Yeah, completely out of context.

247 has us currently ranked 5th in CUSA. How is that spinning anything? How is that taking something out of context. He reported what they listed. Like it or not, that is where we are right now.

BTG_Fan1 · August 8, 2017

6 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

247 has us currently ranked 5th in CUSA. How is that spinning anything? How is that taking something out of context. He reported what they listed. Like it or not, that is where we are right now.

Does not fit the narrative about UNT is why they discount the facts...

Also, I have never fought over the ratings of recruits before that is brought.

MGNation92 · August 8, 2017

3 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Does not fit the narrative about UNT is why they discount the facts...

Also, I have never fought over the ratings of recruits before that is brought.

It's also a fact that we're only beating UTEP and Charlotte in Average Rankings

UTEP has 1 Commit

Charlotte has 5 Commits and their first season was in 2013

We have 12 commits. Our players are consistently ranked lower than everyone else. Warm bodies do not equal success. Good players equal success.

BTG_Fan1 · August 8, 2017

2 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

It's also a fact that we're only beating UTEP and Charlotte in Average Rankings

UTEP has 1 Commit

Charlotte has 5 Commits and their first season was in 2013

We have 12 commits. Our players are consistently ranked lower than everyone else. Warm bodies do not equal success. Good players equal success.

How is presenting facts that we are the 5th ranked class right now devalue the other schools???

MGNation92 · August 8, 2017

1 minute ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

How is presenting facts that we are the 5th ranked class right now devalue the other schools???

I'm just presenting the other side of the argument. You want to argue we're 5th right now. True.

I'm arguing that fact is largely skewed by the fact every team we're ranked ahead of, we have 2+ more commits than they do. Once the other schools gain more commitments, the true ranking will start to show, because odds are, the other teams are going to sign better players than we are.

If we only had 6-7 commits, we'd likely be ranked outside of the top 10, much like we'll probably end up right around there when signing day comes around

AustinFromUNT · August 8, 2017

1 minute ago, MGNation92 said:

I'm just presenting the other side of the argument. You want to argue we're 5th right now. True.

I'm arguing that fact is largely skewed by the fact every team we're ranked ahead of, we have 2+ more commits than they do. Once the other schools gain more commitments, the true ranking will start to show, because odds are, the other teams are going to sign better players than we are.

If we only had 6-7 commits, we'd likely be ranked outside of the top 10, much like we'll probably end up right around there when signing day comes around

I'm not trying to fight but I do want to provide an extra layer of analysis here. So far we have picked up 4 OL recruits. OL on average have a lower rating than skill positions. Marshall has 4 OL and their average is brought down, Rice has 4 OL with their highest OL being rated @ 0.7757 (about .02 below our best OL). Every other school has 2 or fewer OL commits. If they pick up more of them then their average will go down. We haven't picked up any of our skill position guys who typically get higher ratings. We don't have any CB or WR commits yet. Last season our 5 best recruits were either WRs or CBs. So until we get our WRs & CBs set up then I'm not going to be concerned.

Also: FAU only has 1 commit so that isn't likely a good predictor of the final class average.

BTG_Fan1 · August 8, 2017

33 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I'm just presenting the other side of the argument. You want to argue we're 5th right now. True.

I'm arguing that fact is largely skewed by the fact every team we're ranked ahead of, we have 2+ more commits than they do. Once the other schools gain more commitments, the true ranking will start to show, because odds are, the other teams are going to sign better players than we are.

If we only had 6-7 commits, we'd likely be ranked outside of the top 10, much like we'll probably end up right around there when signing day comes around

I'm not wanting to argue it... I literally only posted that we are 5th LOL...

I never said anything about the Avg. of the recruits...

But since we are on the topic of that, last year we finished 11th in C-USA in overall recruiting rankings per 24/7, but yet we beat out 5 other schools.. by Average Score we would have ranked 9th with us being .8 behind LAT (which signed 1 less 3* than we did)... Meanwhile you see someone like UTSA that sees a boost in Avg. recruit score with the Denton Ryan kid who never made it to campus (from what was last reported).

Averages can be shewed, just like the rankings but that is why i said we are ranked 5th right now because it can change... The average is so skewed that if you do the class calculator and just add Gage alone it takes the class up to 85.37 from 76.26 that is 9.11 alone...

24 minutes ago, AustinFromUNT said:

I'm not trying to fight but I do want to provide an extra layer of analysis here. So far we have picked up 4 OL recruits. OL on average have a lower rating than skill positions. Marshall has 4 OL and their average is brought down, Rice has 4 OL with their highest OL being rated @ 0.7757 (about .02 below our best OL). Every other school has 2 or fewer OL commits. If they pick up more of them then their average will go down. We haven't picked up any of our skill position guys who typically get higher ratings. We don't have any CB or WR commits yet. Last season our 5 best recruits were either WRs or CBs. So until we get our WRs & CBs set up then I'm not going to be concerned.

Also: FAU only has 1 commit so that isn't likely a good predictor of the final class average.

What is funny is that King is a .7965 rated 2* while LeBlance is a .7999 rated 3*... a .034 difference between them.. Also, to give a bit more insight into how close King is to being a 3*, UTSA signed a QB to there 2017 class who is a 3* and his rating was a .7973.. a difference of .008

Also, King has a better offer list than LeBlanc too... Better yet according to 24/7 Pearson (UNT 2017 signee) had multiple offers outside of UNT (Wyoming, SFA, McNesse State, I-Ward) and was rated as .7826 while the UTSA kid (Rivers) had no other offers (according to 24/7) and was again ranked as a 3* at .7973 which again shows how flawed and bias some of these ranking sites can be.

Edited August 8, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

Ben Gooding · August 8, 2017

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

247 has us currently ranked 5th in CUSA. How is that spinning anything? How is that taking something out of context. He reported what they listed. Like it or not, that is where we are right now.

Because it infers to the people that lurk that we're doing a good job in recruiting when reality is that we are not, 5th or not. That's the spin. And it's wrong.

BTG_Fan1 · August 8, 2017

17 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Because it infers to the people that lurk that we're doing a good job in recruiting when reality is that we are not, 5th or not. That's the spin. And it's wrong.

So then last years ranking of 11th was viewed completely wrong by everyone saying we could not recruit...

Because our average ranking was better than 5 other schools (with 2 schools ahead of us having lower averages), along with it being .8 behind LAT (which we landed more 3* than LAT as well) which would have put us at 9th in the conference.. That isn't great but the overall class rating of 115 then should be even higher, and again not great but shows how skewed the data is...

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

You can see that they don't do the rankings by Average. they do it by Points... If you go by average we beat Navy all the way up at 88, and they were a ranked team!

Edited August 8, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

Ben Gooding · August 8, 2017

28 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

So then last years ranking of 11th was viewed completely wrong by everyone saying we could not recruit...

Because our average ranking was better than 5 other schools (with 2 schools ahead of us having lower averages), along with it being .8 behind LAT (which we landed more 3* than LAT as well) which would have put us at 9th in the conference.. That isn't great but the overall class rating of 115 then should be even higher, and again not great but shows how skewed the data is...

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

You can see that they don't do the rankings by Average. they do it by Points... If you go by average we beat Navy all the way up at 88, and they were a ranked team!

Yes, I count last years class as 9th. I personally would. But it's still 9th. Points is a good and verifiable system if we're all recruiting the standard number of schollies at 25. But those are offset for everyone on any given year. Therefore, I look at quality (avg.) over quantity (points). We. Must. Do. Better.

And Navy had a ginormous class in 2017. We can't, in any way, compare ourselves to a service academy in recruiting. They are all on a different template than everyone else in numbers and recruiting criteria. They all do option football for a reason. And I still wish we would've followed suit.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Ben Gooding

TheReal_jayD · August 8, 2017

Who gives a crap about rankings. The averages are bias. Just take these two players for example

http://247sports.com/Player/Lorenzo-Dantzler-72551?PlayerInstitution=202939

Rated an 83 and 3 star. UTSA highest ranked recruit. Just one offer UTSA.

http://247sports.com/player/vada-king-53439

Rated a 77 and a 2 star. Our 7th highest ranked recruit. Has multiple D1 offers including stAte and us.

UNTLifer · August 8, 2017

I just get pissed when some people criticize or write off our players before they have either set foot on campus or played a down for us. Just give them a chance and see how they produce a year or two down the road.

TheReal_jayD · August 8, 2017

2 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I just get pissed when some people criticize or write off our players before they have either set foot on campus or played a down for us. Just give them a chance and see how they produce a year or two down the road.

i completely agree. Bitching about a RS JR who hasn't contributed at all is one thing. But a High school commit is another thing. I don't give a crap what a recruiting analyst ranks a player because probably a good chance they have never seen him even play. If Coach Reffett approves of a kid to receive an offer from North Texas on defense or Seth approves of a kid to receive an offer on offense I am okay with it because they know what they are looking for in a player scheme wise on the field and off. I don't give a crap if ULM or Texas State hasn't offered.

Ben Gooding · August 8, 2017

13 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

i completely agree. Bitching about a RS JR who hasn't contributed at all is one thing. But a High school commit is another thing. I don't give a crap what a recruiting analyst ranks a player because probably a good chance they have never seen him even play. If Coach Reffett approves of a kid to receive an offer from North Texas on defense or Seth approves of a kid to receive an offer on offense I am okay with it because they know what they are looking for in a player scheme wise on the field and off. I don't give a crap if ULM or Texas State hasn't offered.

Oh boy. This sounds like it's from 2014.

TheReal_jayD · August 8, 2017

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

Oh boy. This sounds like it's from 2014.

Oh boy do you have to water down every thread with your negative rhetoric. This isn't 2014. Our head Coach did more recruiting this weekend than our coach in 2014 did a whole recruiting cycle.

TreeFiddy · August 8, 2017

Relatively speaking, 2014 was the best class in recent memory. I would take another 2014 class. Just sayin'.

GMG24 · August 8, 2017

3 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Oh boy do you have to water down every thread with your negative rhetoric. This isn't 2014. Our head Coach did more recruiting this weekend than our coach in 2014 did a whole recruiting cycle.

Shh i love the Seth and co, can't recruit retoric, best believe I'm @ ing every one on the board who talked S about these kids.

Ben Gooding · August 8, 2017

2 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Shh i love the Seth and co, can't recruit retoric, best believe I'm @ ing every one on the board who talked S about these kids.

Good. If it keeps UTEP from hanging half a hundred on us, I'm all for it.

GMG24 · August 8, 2017

6 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Good. If it keeps UTEP from hanging half a hundred on us, I'm all for it.

You're the first one I'm putting on blast. But I'm sure you'll have a BS fall back excuse.

Ben Gooding · August 8, 2017

Just now, GMG24 said:

You're the first one I'm putting on blast. But I'm sure you'll have a BS fall back excuse.

On blast? What are you talking about?

You sound like you've been tippin back cough syrup.

GMG24 · August 8, 2017

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

On blast? What are you talking about?

You sound like you've been tippin back cough syrup.

Ha, Seth and co took a 1 win team with FCS roster and won 5 games and was a few plays in two different games away from winning 7 games in year one with a depleated roster. But that doesn't fit your sky is falling narrative. Carry on 90jr.

Ben Gooding · August 8, 2017

Just now, GMG24 said:

Ha, Seth and co took a 1 win team with FCS roster and won 5 games and was a few plays in two different games away from winning 7 games in year one with a depleated roster. But that doesn't fit your sky is falling narrative. Carry on 90jr.

No, no, no. What SL did on the field was very good at times, especially when we peel the onion back. I've never disputed that. But recruiting is monumentally important. And when you do it with minimal success, it USUALLY carries over to the playing surface. And, of course, vice versa.

But, what's funny, to your own comment...SL is recruiting at or below Dan McCarney's FCS roster.

GMG24 · August 8, 2017

Just now, Ben Gooding said:

No, no, no. What SL did on the field was very good at times, especially when we peel the onion back. I've never disputed that. But recruiting is monumentally important. And when you do it with minimal success, it USUALLY carries over to the playing surface. And, of course, vice versa.

But, what's funny, to your own comment...SL is recruiting at or below Dan McCarney's FCS roster.

Can't carry on conversation. SL bringing in dudes who can play just undersized which I'm cool with.