AD Department

xyresic · July 20, 2017

Threads often shift topics wildly, so I'd like to make one with a high level focus rather than a detail like baseball, uniforms, sushi etc.

WB came in and "evaluated" the situation. In talking to him and looking at his public comments a major theme is being overlooked. It is very difficult to evalutate employees and programs when they haven't been given the tools to perform. Look at what WB said about Benford: essentially I am going to see if we can fix up a few things and give him some help then make a decision. They tried, it didn't work and they made a move. Grant is a tremendous hire. He has experience across multiple levels, winning at every stop and he has a great coaching staff around him. The team will take a huge step forward, some @ UNT I have spoken with think 18+ wins is the year 1 expectation.

I think WB views everyone in AD department in this way, give them the tools and see what they can actually do once they have them. That is not a shortcoming it is the sign of a good leader. Ben and UNT90 are spot on that there were people underperforming in the department under RV, this is difficult to dispute. But were they underperforming more than our facilities, fundraising, AD leadership etc? Why were they underperforming? As some have pointed out that is a much more difficult question to answer. WB takes heat for "evaluating" and moving slowly, but if you look at things closely a big shift is already happening. The AD department has over 100 employees when coaching staffs are added in, but for simplicity let's call it 100. Already there has been a fairly large turnover over 20 people and probably closer to 30. There have also been multiple hires to senior roles. To me this sends a clear signal that everyone needs to step up their game or be replaced or be demoted. I like this type of management. Here is more money, more support, go hustle and win - if you don't someone is going to take your place.

College athletics is a small world. You don't gain a lot by publicly announcing that all of your employees are a dumpster fire and then canning them before setting foot on campus. You not only look like a jerk, you lose respect of others in the atheltics landscape and it hurts your ability to recruite future talent. WB is taking actions, just because they are not incredibly public doesn't mean they aren't happening.

A similar thing happened with the Denton campus as a whole. There are a lot of parralels: new leadership came in, fixed large fiscal and structural problems, started raising more money then began replacing people that needed to go with ones who were better fits. Most top positions in the school have been turned over. This did not happen instantly but just a few years later 8 of the 10 cabinet positions have been turned over.

Finally, yes not everyone will always support all decisions but the negativity towards WB pisses me off a bit. His major hires (Mosley and Grant) look like home runs, and he has articulated a clear plan to his adminstration to secure more funding. The old AD never did this as simple as it sounds. The adminstration has in turn supported him, working collaborativley with athletics. He has negotiated better deals with vendors and contracts to fix merchandising shortcomings and to save money... the list goes on and on. Look if he flubs something up then by all means be critical of him, but aside from not instantly firing people that are generally disliked by some on this board I don't understand where the criticism is coming from. Building major facilites takes a bit of time, it is not an instant process.

We finally have a solid AD, he is calculating and if there is a problem he will commit resources to step in and resolve it. He is building a deep team, gathering more resources, and hiring coaches who will win. He is also unifying major donors. Guys like CDS who were firm RV supporters are now supporting him publicly in the paper and folks like EK who lobbied hard to hire another AD candidate are behind him as well. I see the signs of leadership from WB and I am supporting the department for these reasons, both finanically and on this board.

Edited July 20, 2017 by xyresic

Harry · July 20, 2017

36 minutes ago, xyresic said:

Finally, yes not everyone will always support all decisions but the negativity towards WB pisses me off a bit. His major hires (Mosley and Grant) look like home runs, and he has articulated a clear plan to his adminstration to secure more funding. The old AD never did this as simple as it sounds. The adminstration has in turn supported him, working collaborativley with athletics. He has negotiated better deals with vendors and contracts to fix merchandising shortcomings and to save money... the list goes on and on. Look if he flubs something up then by all means be critical of him, but aside from not instantly firing people that are generally disliked by some on this board I don't understand where the criticism is coming from. Building major facilites takes a bit of time, it is not an instant process.

I hear you and this was a very well thought out post, thank you for sharing your observations.

Lookit, these things take time. Many feel their loyalty to the program has been manipulated. So sure, WB is going to have to shrug off some of these sentiments initially. UNT Athletics has been down the rebuilding road before and so a healthy dose of skepticism is probably natural.

I agree with you on the points you made though. There are tangible signs that we are taking the proper steps necessary to build winning programs. And I say this from someone who has been around this thing for awhile. All of this is extremely encouraging. Now we just need to see some results to move folks off the fence. GMG

drex · July 20, 2017

Excellent observations from both of you. On top of righting the ship, Wren is still accessible. Some AD's like to keep plenty of distance between themselves and the general public...not Wren. He seems like a very thoughtful and caring guy to me and I hope everyone gives him a chance to shine.

Ben Gooding · July 20, 2017

1 hour ago, xyresic said:

Threads often shift topics wildly, so I'd like to make one with a high level focus rather than a detail like baseball, uniforms, sushi etc.

WB came in and "evaluated" the situation. In talking to him and looking at his public comments a major theme is being overlooked. It is very difficult to evalutate employees and programs when they haven't been given the tools to perform. Look at what WB said about Benford: essentially I am going to see if we can fix up a few things and give him some help then make a decision. They tried, it didn't work and they made a move. Grant is a tremendous hire. He has experience across multiple levels, winning at every stop and he has a great coaching staff around him. The team will take a huge step forward, some @ UNT I have spoken with think 18+ wins is the year 1 expectation.

I think WB views everyone in AD department in this way, give them the tools and see what they can actually do once they have them. That is not a shortcoming it is the sign of a good leader. Ben and UNT90 are spot on that there were people underperforming in the department under RV, this is difficult to dispute. But were they underperforming more than our facilities, fundraising, AD leadership etc? Why were they underperforming? As some have pointed out that is a much more difficult question to answer. WB takes heat for "evaluating" and moving slowly, but if you look at things closely a big shift is already happening. The AD department has over 100 employees when coaching staffs are added in, but for simplicity let's call it 100. Already there has been a fairly large turnover over 20 people and probably closer to 30. There have also been multiple hires to senior roles. To me this sends a clear signal that everyone needs to step up their game or be replaced or be demoted. I like this type of management. Here is more money, more support, go hustle and win - if you don't someone is going to take your place.

College athletics is a small world. You don't gain a lot by publicly announcing that all of your employees are a dumpster fire and then canning them before setting foot on campus. You not only look like a jerk, you lose respect of others in the atheltics landscape and it hurts your ability to recruite future talent. WB is taking actions, just because they are not incredibly public doesn't mean they aren't happening.

A similar thing happened with the Denton campus as a whole. There are a lot of parralels: new leadership came in, fixed large fiscal and structural problems, started raising more money then began replacing people that needed to go with ones who were better fits. Most top positions in the school have been turned over. This did not happen instantly but just a few years later 8 of the 10 cabinet positions have been turned over.

Finally, yes not everyone will always support all decisions but the negativity towards WB pisses me off a bit. His major hires (Mosley and Grant) look like home runs, and he has articulated a clear plan to his adminstration to secure more funding. The old AD never did this as simple as it sounds. The adminstration has in turn supported him, working collaborativley with athletics. He has negotiated better deals with vendors and contracts to fix merchandising shortcomings and to save money... the list goes on and on. Look if he flubs something up then by all means be critical of him, but aside from not instantly firing people that are generally disliked by some on this board I don't understand where the criticism is coming from. Building major facilites takes a bit of time, it is not an instant process.

We finally have a solid AD, he is calculating and if there is a problem he will commit resources to step in and resolve it. He is building a deep team, gathering more resources, and hiring coaches who will win. He is also unifying major donors. Guys like CDS who were firm RV supporters are now supporting him publicly in the paper and folks like EK who lobbied hard to hire another AD candidate are behind him as well. I see the signs of leadership from WB and I am supporting the department for these reasons, both finanically and on this board.

Ok, I hear you. And I keep hearing all the same things about "behind the scenes." Would a company tell its investors, "Oh, you'll just have to wait and see. It's all happening behind the scenes."

Also, honest question, would or would not this athletic department be in the EXACT current setup WITHOUT bringing on big overhead salaries in Mosley and Grant? If the answer is yes, vamoose.

Then the inevitable, easily predicted moving of the start of an athletic facility. One that just doesn't need to happen to begin with. People in the camp of wanting these 2 upgrades are ALSO in the camp of not wanting to bring baseball back because of the 0 revenue it may or may not bring in. Uhhh...but track and women's soccer are the big ticket upgrades we really need to be worrying about?

Then, of course, the God foresaken Liberty fiasco.

Then holding the super duper secret negotiatons close to the vest to get a big ticket opponent into Apogee...then, uh, Houston is announced.

Canceling a good amount of the Army series. Seems like a great idea..."Hey, let's cut away our losing program that struggles with attendance from a service academy."

Walking on eggshells for whatever reason to wait and fire Benford. We were put further behind the 8 ball by 365 days, at least, because of a wait and see approach athletic director.

The indirect refusal to cut away from some of RV's right hand men. Keeping them on....Then hiring two more big overhead personnel (already mentioned).

Not communicating to its constituents of MGC goals, memberships, etc.

Allowing the locker room (even after a 'remodel') to continue to look worse than nearby high schools.

Then now hearing the IPF won't get rolling until 2019 (Idea: immediately discontinue the track and soccer facility upgrades. Allot said money to the new IPF).

The Good...

1. The Flag

2. Free tix to recent grads

3. I guess talking about facility upgrades...

4. Tech home and home, with return game in 2048.

5. People will say the new bball hire, but why? He's won 0 games at UNT. I don't care what he did in 1 year at the D1 level.

I'm in the camp of it's more of the same until it's not. There has been an infusion of a little innovation. Outside of that, a lot of barking with minimal bites. I know a lot of people are battered and bruised due to the previous regime. So people get REALLY high on the high's and do everything at all cost to look past the lows. I'm not looking past those. Now, hit me with those -1's.

UNTLifer · July 20, 2017

@Ben Gooding, you didn't read the original post in this thread, did you?

Ben Gooding · July 20, 2017

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

@Ben Gooding, you didn't read the original post in this thread, did you?

I did. It's somone, imo, blindly putting trust into an athletic department for minimal basis.

GreenMachine · July 20, 2017

27 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Ok, I hear you. And I keep hearing all the same things about "behind the scenes." Would a company tell its investors, "Oh, you'll just have to wait and see. It's all happening behind the scenes."

Also, honest question, would or would not this athletic department be in the EXACT current setup WITHOUT bringing on big overhead salaries in Mosley and Grant? If the answer is yes, vamoose.

Then the inevitable, easily predicted moving of the start of an athletic facility. One that just doesn't need to happen to begin with. People in the camp of wanting these 2 upgrades are ALSO in the camp of not wanting to bring baseball back because of the 0 revenue it may or may not bring in. Uhhh...but track and women's soccer are the big ticket upgrades we really need to be worrying about?

Then, of course, the God foresaken Liberty fiasco.

Then holding the super duper secret negotiatons close to the vest to get a big ticket opponent into Apogee...then, uh, Houston is announced.

Canceling a good amount of the Army series. Seems like a great idea..."Hey, let's cut away our losing program that struggles with attendance from a service academy."

Walking on eggshells for whatever reason to wait and fire Benford. We were put further behind the 8 ball by 365 days, at least, because of a wait and see approach athletic director.

The indirect refusal to cut away from some of RV's right hand men. Keeping them on....Then hiring two more big overhead personnel (already mentioned).

Not communicating to its constituents of MGC goals, memberships, etc.

Allowing the locker room (even after a 'remodel') to continue to look worse than nearby high schools.

Then now hearing the IPF won't get rolling until 2019 (Idea: immediately discontinue the track and soccer facility upgrades. Allot said money to the new IPF).

The Good...

1. The Flag

2. Free tix to recent grads

3. I guess talking about facility upgrades...

4. Tech home and home, with return game in 2048.

5. People will say the new bball hire, but why? He's won 0 games at UNT. I don't care what he did in 1 year at the D1 level.

I'm in the camp of it's more of the same until it's not. There has been an infusion of a little innovation. Outside of that, a lot of barking with minimal bites. I know a lot of people are battered and bruised due to the previous regime. So people get REALLY high on the high's and do everything at all cost to look past the lows. I'm not looking past those. Now, hit me with those -1's.

I bet if you started a new position at a different company and was replacing a total dolt, you wouldn't want to be considered a dolt as well just because you are in his old role. You constantly griping about the same things shows me again you don't have a grasp on what a mess WB walked into. Maybe 5k more post will convince WB what a failure he is.

Monkeypox · July 20, 2017

Can I be in some kind of weird, logical middle ground, where I don't allow myself to call anyone who hasn't coached a game here a "home run" or praise an AD one year in, while still feeling generally optimistic about the direction our program appears to be taking?

I mean, I like our recent hires and our direction on paper, but without major strides, I'm not going to get a Wroner about anything yet.

forevereagle · July 20, 2017

3 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:

Can I be in some kind of weird, logical middle ground,

untjim1995 · July 20, 2017

3 hours ago, xyresic said:

Threads often shift topics wildly, so I'd like to make one with a high level focus rather than a detail like baseball, uniforms, sushi etc.

WB came in and "evaluated" the situation. In talking to him and looking at his public comments a major theme is being overlooked. It is very difficult to evalutate employees and programs when they haven't been given the tools to perform. Look at what WB said about Benford: essentially I am going to see if we can fix up a few things and give him some help then make a decision. They tried, it didn't work and they made a move. Grant is a tremendous hire. He has experience across multiple levels, winning at every stop and he has a great coaching staff around him. The team will take a huge step forward, some @ UNT I have spoken with think 18+ wins is the year 1 expectation.

I think WB views everyone in AD department in this way, give them the tools and see what they can actually do once they have them. That is not a shortcoming it is the sign of a good leader. Ben and UNT90 are spot on that there were people underperforming in the department under RV, this is difficult to dispute. But were they underperforming more than our facilities, fundraising, AD leadership etc? Why were they underperforming? As some have pointed out that is a much more difficult question to answer. WB takes heat for "evaluating" and moving slowly, but if you look at things closely a big shift is already happening. The AD department has over 100 employees when coaching staffs are added in, but for simplicity let's call it 100. Already there has been a fairly large turnover over 20 people and probably closer to 30. There have also been multiple hires to senior roles. To me this sends a clear signal that everyone needs to step up their game or be replaced or be demoted. I like this type of management. Here is more money, more support, go hustle and win - if you don't someone is going to take your place.

College athletics is a small world. You don't gain a lot by publicly announcing that all of your employees are a dumpster fire and then canning them before setting foot on campus. You not only look like a jerk, you lose respect of others in the atheltics landscape and it hurts your ability to recruite future talent. WB is taking actions, just because they are not incredibly public doesn't mean they aren't happening.

A similar thing happened with the Denton campus as a whole. There are a lot of parralels: new leadership came in, fixed large fiscal and structural problems, started raising more money then began replacing people that needed to go with ones who were better fits. Most top positions in the school have been turned over. This did not happen instantly but just a few years later 8 of the 10 cabinet positions have been turned over.

Finally, yes not everyone will always support all decisions but the negativity towards WB pisses me off a bit. His major hires (Mosley and Grant) look like home runs, and he has articulated a clear plan to his adminstration to secure more funding. The old AD never did this as simple as it sounds. The adminstration has in turn supported him, working collaborativley with athletics. He has negotiated better deals with vendors and contracts to fix merchandising shortcomings and to save money... the list goes on and on. Look if he flubs something up then by all means be critical of him, but aside from not instantly firing people that are generally disliked by some on this board I don't understand where the criticism is coming from. Building major facilites takes a bit of time, it is not an instant process.

We finally have a solid AD, he is calculating and if there is a problem he will commit resources to step in and resolve it. He is building a deep team, gathering more resources, and hiring coaches who will win. He is also unifying major donors. Guys like CDS who were firm RV supporters are now supporting him publicly in the paper and folks like EK who lobbied hard to hire another AD candidate are behind him as well. I see the signs of leadership from WB and I am supporting the department for these reasons, both finanically and on this board.

Great post. Look, we have to give Wren Baker the benefit of the doubt because he is still trying to get stuff figured out and done here, stuff that the university's leadership ALLOWED to suck at a high level for a loooooonnnngggg time. It's very telling that the UNT 17 basically gave up on RV after the buyouts became too big to ignore and the "access" they were getting to the AD and the program was, quite frankly, not worth a pot to piss in. Baker is new...I am quite certain that he wanted to fire Tony Bumford on Day One, but he couldn't because the funds that would have been available got rid of the fat-ass that drove the bus into the bottom of the lake. SO, publically, he said the right thing, while privately, he went out and got the guy he felt would be the best fit here and he paid handsomely for it, which is refreshing in its own right.

Baker may end up sucking to, yet keeping a job here for a long time like RV and Helwig did before him. Its UNT, its what we do when it comes to athletics. But, maybe, just maybe, this man is different and can actually hire personnel that gets shit done, in the areas we need. I'm not talking non-revenue sports or compliance or any of that--these are important, but nothing like fundraising, winning on the football field and basketball court, and knowing something about getting PR/marketing for us in the entire Metroplex, not just Denton. These have to be the top priorities. It doesn't mean you go all Baylor and just get to become a winner and not care about anything else, to the point of covering up multiple assaults by your players. It means being something akin to La Tech's AD. It's working to become something like UH has grown into. If that can occur here--and I have severe doubts it can--it will be due to guys like Baker getting it turned around and moving up the AD Foodchain in the world of college athletics. But we have to give the man a chance--he isn't RV, even if some of the stuff he says sounds too familiar. RV sounded eager to when he first got here...and then the leadership and culture made it clear to him how to keep his job and be the good company man. But until otherwise shown, WB isn't RV or Craig Helwig, so we have to trust Smatresk hired the right guy and will do everything he can to get this thing up to a standard that it has NEVER reached before in the last 35+ years.

UNTcrazy727 · July 20, 2017

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Ok, I hear you. And I keep hearing all the same things about "behind the scenes." Would a company tell its investors, "Oh, you'll just have to wait and see. It's all happening behind the scenes."

Also, honest question, would or would not this athletic department be in the EXACT current setup WITHOUT bringing on big overhead salaries in Mosley and Grant? If the answer is yes, vamoose.

Then the inevitable, easily predicted moving of the start of an athletic facility. One that just doesn't need to happen to begin with. People in the camp of wanting these 2 upgrades are ALSO in the camp of not wanting to bring baseball back because of the 0 revenue it may or may not bring in. Uhhh...but track and women's soccer are the big ticket upgrades we really need to be worrying about?

Then, of course, the God foresaken Liberty fiasco.

Then holding the super duper secret negotiatons close to the vest to get a big ticket opponent into Apogee...then, uh, Houston is announced.

Canceling a good amount of the Army series. Seems like a great idea..."Hey, let's cut away our losing program that struggles with attendance from a service academy."

Walking on eggshells for whatever reason to wait and fire Benford. We were put further behind the 8 ball by 365 days, at least, because of a wait and see approach athletic director.

The indirect refusal to cut away from some of RV's right hand men. Keeping them on....Then hiring two more big overhead personnel (already mentioned).

Not communicating to its constituents of MGC goals, memberships, etc.

Allowing the locker room (even after a 'remodel') to continue to look worse than nearby high schools.

Then now hearing the IPF won't get rolling until 2019 (Idea: immediately discontinue the track and soccer facility upgrades. Allot said money to the new IPF).

The Good...

1. The Flag

2. Free tix to recent grads

3. I guess talking about facility upgrades...

4. Tech home and home, with return game in 2048.

5. People will say the new bball hire, but why? He's won 0 games at UNT. I don't care what he did in 1 year at the D1 level.

I'm in the camp of it's more of the same until it's not. There has been an infusion of a little innovation. Outside of that, a lot of barking with minimal bites. I know a lot of people are battered and bruised due to the previous regime. So people get REALLY high on the high's and do everything at all cost to look past the lows. I'm not looking past those. Now, hit me with those -1's.

PowerlessEmbellishedEthiopianwolf-size_r

Quoner · July 20, 2017

1 hour ago, Monkeypox said:

Can I be in some kind of weird, logical middle ground, where I don't allow myself to call anyone who hasn't coached a game here a "home run" or praise an AD one year in, while still feeling generally optimistic about the direction our program appears to be taking?

I mean, I like our recent hires and our direction on paper, but without major strides, I'm not going to get a Wroner about anything yet.

Pick a side, coward.

MeanGreenTexan · July 20, 2017

1 hour ago, Monkeypox said:

Can I be in some kind of weird, logical middle ground, where I don't allow myself to call anyone who hasn't coached a game here a "home run" or praise an AD one year in, while still feeling generally optimistic about the direction our program appears to be taking?

I mean, I like our recent hires and our direction on paper, but without major strides, I'm not going to get a Wroner about anything yet.

ringo_and_paul__laugh_at_you_by_eggirl2-

What's that? Sounds made up to me.

MGNation92 · July 20, 2017

I think it's fair to say that from an outside fan standpoint, to me, it looks like Wren is already doing more than RV did(let's be honest, that didn't take much). I think you can be marginally happy with the current progress while also expecting more and more each year.

Hoping for bigger and better things from Mr. Baker and staff this year

Mean Green 93-98 · July 20, 2017

1 hour ago, Monkeypox said:

Can I be in some kind of weird, logical middle ground, where I don't allow myself to call anyone who hasn't coached a game here a "home run" or praise an AD one year in, while still feeling generally optimistic about the direction our program appears to be taking?

I mean, I like our recent hires and our direction on paper, but without major strides, I'm not going to get a Wroner about anything yet.

Wait . . . a what?!?

UNTLifer · July 20, 2017

2 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Great post. Look, we have to give Wren Baker the benefit of the doubt because he is still trying to get stuff figured out and done here, stuff that the university's leadership ALLOWED to suck at a high level for a loooooonnnngggg time. It's very telling that the UNT 17 basically gave up on RV after the buyouts became too big to ignore and the "access" they were getting to the AD and the program was, quite frankly, not worth a pot to piss in. Baker is new...I am quite certain that he wanted to fire Tony Bumford on Day One, but he couldn't because the funds that would have been available got rid of the fat-ass that drove the bus into the bottom of the lake. SO, publically, he said the right thing, while privately, he went out and got the guy he felt would be the best fit here and he paid handsomely for it, which is refreshing in its own right.

Baker may end up sucking to, yet keeping a job here for a long time like RV and Helwig did before him. Its UNT, its what we do when it comes to athletics. But, maybe, just maybe, this man is different and can actually hire personnel that gets shit done, in the areas we need. I'm not talking non-revenue sports or compliance or any of that--these are important, but nothing like fundraising, winning on the football field and basketball court, and knowing something about getting PR/marketing for us in the entire Metroplex, not just Denton. These have to be the top priorities. It doesn't mean you go all Baylor and just get to become a winner and not care about anything else, to the point of covering up multiple assaults by your players. It means being something akin to La Tech's AD. It's working to become something like UH has grown into. If that can occur here--and I have severe doubts it can--it will be due to guys like Baker getting it turned around and moving up the AD Foodchain in the world of college athletics. But we have to give the man a chance--he isn't RV, even if some of the stuff he says sounds too familiar. RV sounded eager to when he first got here...and then the leadership and culture made it clear to him how to keep his job and be the good company man. But until otherwise shown, WB isn't RV or Craig Helwig, so we have to trust Smatresk hired the right guy and will do everything he can to get this thing up to a standard that it has NEVER reached before in the last 35+ years.

This is spot on. We are all anxious for change but then must realize that Baker is just now finishing year one. We do have to focus on the revenue sports, because success there will lead to increased attendance, increased fundraising, thus creating money to investment in the entire program. I wish we could put off the track/soccer complex, but when we have young men and women coming here to run track and we are putting them on a surface that is not safe things must be pushed to the forefront. I predict in two more years we will be light years ahead of where we are today, but we have to be patient.

meanrob · July 20, 2017

I can be as patient as the next guy but let's face it, I don't have another option so I have to be. WB hasn't done anything major I don't like but I'm not convinced he's the savior either. Initiatives like the new alum season ticket drive are a start, we need more of that. I'm not thrilled a lot of the old faces are still around.

The assumptions made by people on this board do drive me crazy. After Helwig and RV, you gotta show me rather than just talk. It was apparent to me around 2004 that RV wasn't the man for the job and a majority of this board (at least the vocal ones) defended him.

Lastly, our marketing and promotions has always sucked. I know the social media side is getting better but please WB fix this and don't be afraid to get out of the box.

GrandGreen · July 21, 2017

Way too early to be won over by Baker or the opposite. I don't see any major failures or victories at this point. We can debate all day about what goes on behind the scenes. Some assume a great program is being built, others that little has been accomplished. All that we know is what has been reported, to assume anything else is simply guesswork from most of us.

If you really look at the message board reaction, it is very typical. Most fans are going to support the new AD and optimism runs rampant. The same few posters who never see any progress no matter what, are still in that mode. There is a group in the middle of which I am one that have not been won over by Baker but are still hopeful that he is the answer. Here is how I view Baker's tenure at this point:

Administrative staff: I don't like adding an upper tier of administrators as a first order of business. I don't have as big a problem with retaining many of the old staff as some, but it doesn't compute that most of RV's staff were top performers. The actual effectiveness of the extra management level won't be known for a long time if at all.

Head Coaching moves: Giving Benford his last year was definitely a mistake. I also have a problem with retaining mediocre at best head coaches in other sports when their contracts expired. The positive, I like the MBB hire, and believe it was definitely a good and necessary move up in terms of the investment in the sport.

Scheduling: The one and one with Tech is definitely a plus. However, I am still trying to figure out why adding Liberty and dropping Army to apparently get an one on one with UH is worthwhile.

Facilities: This topic is more complicated than most believe. It is not only what is added but how it is financed. RV for example, got Apogee built and it is a great facility. However it was built almost wholly with debt secured by student fees. This is a drain on budgets for years and tied up a large portion of student fees that could have possibly been used for athletic operating expenses instead of debt service.

With the above caveat, I like what Baker is doing and planning to do. The track-soccer facility is about mandatory for NT. The track squads are necessary for NT to stay in compliance with NCAA D1 requirements for the number of teams required. The soccer portion should be a step up for what is undoubtedly NT's best team. With the IPF plans, Baker is demonstrating that he is addressing the items that NT needs to build to be competitive with peer institutions.

Of course nothing major has been actually started, so this is a wait and see factor. I do credit Baker with the planned renovation of the Super PIt, I think it should have a lot of years left. Also I assume that he has attacked a lot of the smaller projects that were neglected. The locker rooms and upgrade to the basketball practice facility are not going to provide the wanted wow factor, but are significant improvements.

Donations and support: A very long range objective that NT must substantially improve. Too early to rate Baker, but men's basketball should show an immediate attendance spike and football attendance will give some indication if Baker is on target. Mean Green club membership and donations are about the lowest in the conference, so I would be disappointed if Baker can't move those numbers up.

Winning: Ultimately what Baker will be judged on; his record in terms of wins and losses, particularly in football and men's basketball.

GreenN'walinsVet · July 21, 2017

So on the turnover report: while he may have not churned the person or persons "YOU" wanted churned first, its not like he hasn't done some churning. I'll admit that some of these moves (outside of the basketball staff) do/did not make me happy, but he made them and i hope they turn out to be good in the end.

Those moves:

New Men's Basketball Head Coach/Staff

New Director of Sports Medicine

New non football strength coach

New Equipment Manger

Plus some of/if not most of the staffs associated with those positions

Got5onIt · July 21, 2017

Give him time, it's barely been a year. You can't honestly judge him at this point. The McCasland hire is going to be anchored to him for better or worse. At least wait until we see those results....

Ben Gooding · July 21, 2017

2 hours ago, Got5onIt said:

Give him time, it's barely been a year. You can't honestly judge him at this point. The McCasland hire is going to be anchored to him for better or worse. At least wait until we see those results....

For sure.

But everything has to be put under the microscope, not just the culmination of wins and losses over 1 sport. I can live with .500 programs if the athletic department is being proactive rather than reactive. And visible progress is being made to lay a real foundation for sustained success. Though wins and losses are important, our programs need to have a baseline of success and a trend pattern has to be maintained for said foundation to be poured properly. The baseline has been established in football. Hopefully a positive one is set in basketball this upcoming season.

MeanGreenTexan · July 21, 2017

50 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

For sure.

But everything has to be put under the microscope, not just the culmination of wins and losses over 1 sport. I can live with .500 programs if the athletic department is being proactive rather than reactive. And visible progress is being made to lay a real foundation for sustained success. Though wins and losses are important, our programs need to have a baseline of success and a trend pattern has to be maintained for said foundation to be poured properly. The baseline has been established in football. Hopefully a positive one is set in basketball this upcoming season.

Speaking in terms of "foundation", last season's turnaround is more like a 1/16 inch layer of level-quick poured over a cracked slab.
Nothing is established in football. A couple more years of increases, followed by sustained 8-10 win seasons would be a real foundation.
The only firm foundation at UNT is coach Hedlund's squad.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · July 21, 2017

For pete's sake, it will all come down to this: if the football program and men's basketball program keep failing, Baker will be gone with the current coaches. If both keep failing, he's overpaid them.

UNT90 · July 22, 2017

Lol. Ya, you make zero changes to management except for creating another layer and everyone claims major changes. 😂😂. Same people doing the same things will lead to exactly the same result. Already seeing it with the IPF.

All Baker has done is add a very expensive layer to upper management while producing nothing.

He has already delayed the IPF shortly after announcing it. Gee, those same guys who didn't do their jobs before still aren't. I mean, that's just shocking, isn't it?

i doubt Baker has the power to fire Hank. I think he was told Hank comes with the job. Typical small time North Texas athletics.

I've lost almost all rooting interest. I did re-up season tickets and immediately felt a sense of regret. Basketball is dead to me forever.

You wonder why 99% of alumni walk away? Really?