How to get people off the hill

[Withers940]

Well, since the beer give away is out, how about a group of people form a line at the other end of the hill and slowly walk towards the stadium with Cattle prods. 

[BTG_Fan1]

2 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

This issue can be a real beat down, even for our most "always positive" fans/alumni like Mark. I think by now just about everyone has heard my solution. But here it is again........CULTURE CHANGE.  And it must be going on ALL THE TIME.

Does anything think that A&M, UT, OU etc. etc. ever take a day off from promoting their culture? Does anyone think that any of those schools ever just waited for their sports teams to start winning before they addressed the issue of getting people into their stadiums?

Does A&M forget and/or toss aside any of their traditions just because someone who happened to have been put in charge got bored with it?

Did any of the three schools mentioned above ever have any doubt as to what their "correct" school color was? How many times in the last 40-50 years have any of the above mentioned schools radically changed their uni's.

 

How do you change that culture tho. We can see a problem but we need a solution.

[untjim1995]

2 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

How do you change that culture tho. We can see a problem but we need a solution.

Culture change happens in two ways...it either takes decades to do or it takes an amazing event that transforms that culture. For us, it would take football basically going undefeated, like Western Michigan just did, and going to a BCS bowl game.

[NM Green]

 You need to pepper a culture from 1000 different directions all of the time. That is what changes a culture. It reaches all different types of receivers and ultimately keeps everyone attentive and alert and excited. I still hope for the day when we actually hire a culture creator within the athletic department that focused on spirit culture building On game day on campus in the community.  Arm this person with culture ambassadors and unleash. Culture director 80k a year 4 ambassadors 40k -45k per year.  Set up testing and feedback mechanisms for constant feedback.  That's how MGM did it when I moved there 10 years ago. We moved mountains - 9k employees 5044 rooms 3200 in f and b division 1000 blackjack and game dealers. Laser focus my friends. GMG

[GRN-WHT]

18 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

I used to be right there with you on this...until I saw what happened to attendance after our first HOD Bowl win when our attendance declined. For me this "win and they will come" concept just doesn't work for UNT.  I am just going to have to be proven wrong...and I hope I am because it would mean we are winning.

Year after year after year of getting our asses kicked, the first winning season since 2004 isn't going to cut it. It was back to our regularly scheduled programming the next 2 seasons culminating with 66-7 on Homecoming. Those who thought 2013 was a flash in the pan were totally right.

It is going to take at least 3-4 seasons in a row of 8 or 9+ wins each for the attitude to change.

 

[GreenMachine]

18 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

I used to be right there with you on this...until I saw what happened to attendance after our first HOD Bowl win when our attendance declined. For me this "win and they will come" concept just doesn't work for UNT.  I am just going to have to be proven wrong...and I hope I am because it would mean we are winning.

I don't believe you can use one winning season as the gauge for increasing attendance, especially when we have had some many losing seasons before that. If, however, we have several winning seasons in a row and attendance is still sparse, then we definitely have a problem.

[Green Mean]

Win and do it consistently.  It's not our job to market the product and get people interested.  I've pretty much given up on going out of my way to get people to come to games.  I may inform and offer them to tag along w/me if I have an extra ticket but other than that it's their call.  If people want to do something, they will do it, if they don't then they won't come.

There are people that get paid to do this job on a full time basis for the AD/University.  That said even those people can do so much if there just isn't a whole lot of substance to sell and market.  The incentive of telling people "because it's your university" etc etc just doesn't cut it these days.  There's way too many other options out there especially if you have a family.

You don't just change culture...it takes time but really it takes winning and winning consistently for a good amount of time. In addition to that, the amount of winning has to result in being ranked in the T25 somewhere and/or finish in the T25 at the end of the CFB season.  Oh and you need to beat some teams that people know...preferably a couple of upper echelon programs...people really notice when you do that.

Doing bits like free things like tuition, books etc is great and all but I don't really want to bribe them to come.  They will just leave when the contest is over and it won't make them any more interested in coming in future games unless of course we just win win win. While it does still somewhat irk me that so many people opt to stay outside our beautiful stadium, I just say at least they're in the vicinity and they haven't had enough reason and incentive going inside given the product they've been exposed too.

[SilverEagle]

10 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Culture change happens in two ways...it either takes decades to do or it takes an amazing event that transforms that culture. For us, it would take football basically going undefeated, like Western Michigan just did, and going to a BCS bowl game.

Both. You practice/engage the crowd in your traditions before, during, and after each game. As you go through your Western Michigan-like undefeated season, intensify the engagement with the crowd during the game. Every time the team wins a hard fought conference game the crowd and team have a bonding experience. Word spreads around campus and the city about this great bonding event, and more and more people want to be a part of it.

Currently we don't have a true bonding experience at our game. I've said this since 1990. North Texas contracts to have a football event. All the essential parts (students/alumni, Football team, Band, Cheer staff, Talons) show up (minimally) and fulfill their contractual obligations (mostly going through the motions) and then after the game they all go their own way. There is no apparent connection/bond between all the aforementioned parts.

Small wonder the recruits that we bring to these game are less than impressed.

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by SilverEagle

[UNTexas]

Here was one major problem from last year: I had to buy extra tickets for the opener at Apogee last year and it was nuclear hot on the west side of the stadium in line around massive lines. People were leaving, saying screw it, because they were miserable in line. Many of which had kids begging to leave because the athletic department dropped the ball so badly. The people just walked off. Including the family I bought tickets for. People couldn't even get in until the 2nd quarter anyway.

Fix problems like this before we worry about tailgaters who probably have tickets missing kickoff.

 

[Quoner]

1 hour ago, UNTexas said:

Here was one major problem from last year: I had to buy extra tickets for the opener at Apogee last year and it was nuclear hot on the west side of the stadium in line around massive lines. People were leaving, saying screw it, because they were miserable in line. Many of which had kids begging to leave because the athletic department dropped the ball so badly. The people just walked off. Including the family I bought tickets for. People couldn't even get in until the 2nd quarter anyway.

Fix problems like this before we worry about tailgaters who probably have tickets missing kickoff.

 

You know what would make these people want to finish the last 15% of the attendance transaction? Yelling at them.

[LongJim]

1.  Stay in one conference.

2.  Play in-state and regional schools that UNT can compete with regularly.

3.  Win consistently.

4.  Continue engaging the freshmen classes during enrollment.

5.  Go forth and multiply.

It's a building process that takes consistency in all of the above areas, and MANY 4 year cycles to build alumni engagement to the level desired.

[GrayEagle]

Win consistently is not an answer.  There are very few that can win consistently and virtually all of them are in the P-5 conferences.  So how do you propose to win year in and year out?  If, somehow, we were lucky enough to find a coach that could do that for two or three years, he and his staff would be gone.  

As I see it, a change in culture will require promotions; if not for all home games then at least for the one or two most attractive.  And not just for students (although they are the most important) but for alumni and townspeople as well.  Expand the Talons and have them go door-to-door leaving hangers with deals for season tickets or a single game.  Attendance expands interest not only for games but teams just play better before a sold-out house than a half-filled stadium.

Culture change must be done with more than one approach.  What appeals to one group may not resonate with another.  The common denominator must eventually be school pride.  The current administration is doing all that it can to elevate the university's status.  It's working for enrollment and could help change the culture in interest as well.

While I don't advocate conference changes often, always keep an eye towards the next better situation for North Texas.  Keep good relations with the AAC, the MWC and good regional (especially improving) universities.  The Western Conference of CUSA isn't bad at all but we have virtually nothing in common with the east and travel costs are excessive to those destinations.  The two things that will keep other conferences attention are winning and attendance plus a little PR.  Just keep pushing forward.  We have to position ourselves so that we are ready if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[greenminer]

I don't know if we will be a program that wins 8-12 games year in and out.  I get that it's hard.

But if our AD doesn't strive for it, our fans will see the lack of effort and the culture will not change.

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, GrayEagle said:

Win consistently is not an answer.  There are very few that can win consistently and virtually all of them are in the P-5 conferences.  So how do you propose to win year in and year out?  If, somehow, we were lucky enough to find a coach that could do that for two or three years, he and his staff would be gone.  

As I see it, a change in culture will require promotions; if not for all home games then at least for the one or two most attractive.  And not just for students (although they are the most important) but for alumni and townspeople as well.  Expand the Talons and have them go door-to-door leaving hangers with deals for season tickets or a single game.  Attendance expands interest not only for games but teams just play better before a sold-out house than a half-filled stadium.

Culture change must be done with more than one approach.  What appeals to one group may not resonate with another.  The common denominator must eventually be school pride.  The current administration is doing all that it can to elevate the university's status.  It's working for enrollment and could help change the culture in interest as well.

While I don't advocate conference changes often, always keep an eye towards the next better situation for North Texas.  Keep good relations with the AAC, the MWC and good regional (especially improving) universities.  The Western Conference of CUSA isn't bad at all but we have virtually nothing in common with the east and travel costs are excessive to those destinations.  The two things that will keep other conferences attention are winning and attendance plus a little PR.  Just keep pushing forward.  We have to position ourselves so that we are ready if the opportunity presents itself.

 

I disagree with not being able to win consistently. There are many G5 programs that win consistently. 

We do though need a culture change. But our University is not going to be an easy culture to change given the dynamics of the school. We are an extremely liberal university that caters heavily to music and art. And let's face the facts, when an environment like that is manifested so deeply and practically celebrated (music/art and liberalism), it's going to be hard to reverse. That alone is enough for us to lag in support, but then add in the fact that we just haven't had a lot of recent success it makes it that much more difficult. 

[All About UNT]

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

I disagree with not being able to win consistently. There are many G5 programs that win consistently. 

We do though need a culture change. But our University is not going to be an easy culture to change given the dynamics of the school. We are an extremely liberal university that caters heavily to music and art. And let's face the facts, when an environment like that is manifested so deeply and practically celebrated (music/art and liberalism), it's going to be hard to reverse. That alone is enough for us to lag in support, but then add in the fact that we just haven't had a lot of recent success it makes it that much more difficult. 

you really believe this huh lol?

[BTG_Fan1]

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

I disagree with not being able to win consistently. There are many G5 programs that win consistently. 

We do though need a culture change. But our University is not going to be an easy culture to change given the dynamics of the school. We are an extremely liberal university that caters heavily to music and art. And let's face the facts, when an environment like that is manifested so deeply and practically celebrated (music/art and liberalism), it's going to be hard to reverse. That alone is enough for us to lag in support, but then add in the fact that we just haven't had a lot of recent success it makes it that much more difficult. 

Yes, this hurts us because UNT is viewed as more of an arts school than sports school. But that can be changed I believe if the school (NS and WB and other admin) are willing to commit to the AD Program.  

UNT has been hurt by the recent history of the budget crisis that the AD Office ran into, what I mean by that is that if players/coaches see fields that are dry and other things just lagging behind it will leave a somewhat sour/unimpressed feeling for them. NS and WB have seemed willing so far to open the schools financial resources to go buyout a coach, to give a nice pay day to there football and basketball coach, propose plans for a new Soccer/Track stadium and rumors of an IPF (soon). The question is can we maintain this. 

We have to be able to maintain, and somewhat even overspend but wisely. It has been shown that schools see an uptick in enrollment/donations, etc when they have a successful sports program. I'm not saying for NS to go to WB and give him a blank check and say fill it out for what you need. NS has talked about turning this into a Tier 1 school in terms of athletics, now the question is can they/will they put the money where they said they would. 

Also, another thing that is important as well that will help us with recruits is the new types of degrees that they are just starting up and the network that these new programs are being connected with. UNT just recently started up a Sports Management degree with professional networks linked to the Stars, Dallas Cowboys and even The Star (which is right down the street from the Frisco Campus), FC Dallas, and the soon to be Rugby Team in Allen, among other international collection in the Premier League for soccer, and Rugby in New Zealand/Australia. They are planning on starting up an Athletic Admin degree as well. These may not seem like major things, but adding new degrees that appeal/interest kids that are involved with sports will help us in terms of recruiting/ changing the view of only being a liberal arts school. 

[LongJim]

3 hours ago, GrayEagle said:

Win consistently is not an answer. 

Well, how about we give it a try?  What can it hurt?

[untjim1995]

11 minutes ago, All About UNT said:

you really believe this huh lol?

Its the dead-on truth...name the other regional FBS school that uses music and fine arts as its primary window to advertise the university ahead of its sports teams? Go ahead, we'll wait...

[All About UNT]

1 minute ago, untjim1995 said:

Its the dead-on truth...name the other regional FBS school that uses music and fine arts as its primary window to advertise the university ahead of its sports teams? Go ahead, we'll wait...

Cool. Show me the billboards that talk about the One O'clock Jazz band?  Or TV commercials fixated on our music program.  Matter of fact.... most commercials show the business building and Chemistry/Forensic Labs and are very balanced.  Go ahead.... we'll wait.  Lmao.

[rws69]

Same response I just added to a post about the band in shorts and tees. When I was a student, heat was not an issue because games started at 7:00 standard time - equivalent to 8:00 today with daylight time. 

What would a later start bring? For students in campus housing, time to eat (already paid for) meal before walking to Apogee. For Greeks and others on the hill, takes away some of the comfort difference due to heat in stadium plus it gets dark sooner after game starts. For people in club level, opportunity for pre-game buffet closer to a normal supper time. (Many are still eating when games start now.) 

One drawback would be later home for those an hour or so away. I am 30 minutes away, but this would not bother me.

This is not a complete solution, but it may help.i

 

update: Just saw 5:30 (gasp) for home start times in September and October, except Lamar. Ouch!

Edited July 14, 2017 by rws69
New info.

[Quoner]

5 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Also, another thing that is important as well that will help us with recruits is the new types of degrees that they are just starting up and the network that these new programs are being connected with. UNT just recently started up a Sports Management degree with professional networks linked to the Stars, Dallas Cowboys and even The Star (which is right down the street from the Frisco Campus), FC Dallas, and the soon to be Rugby Team in Allen, among other international collection in the Premier League for soccer, and Rugby in New Zealand/Australia. They are planning on starting up an Athletic Admin degree as well. These may not seem like major things, but adding new degrees that appeal/interest kids that are involved with sports will help us in terms of recruiting/ changing the view of only being a liberal arts school. 

Yes - kids getting paid $25K a year to hawk fun packs to a Rough riders game will pack those stands lickety split. Also, are these only undergrad degrees? They are much better off getting a business or communications degree, then going to a real sports management masters program elsewhere to even have a shot (and still make peanuts for a decent amount of time.)

I will say this is a great way to take money from people who will wake up around age 30 and second guess everything, which is good hustle for the local teams that need cheap labor and the university that needs more money. It's also a great simple degree to offer student athletes. 

[BTG_Fan1]

8 minutes ago, Quoner said:

Yes - kids getting paid $25K a year to hawk fun packs to a Rough riders game will pack those stands lickety split. Also, are these only undergrad degrees? They are much better off getting a business or communications degree, then going to a real sports management masters program elsewhere to even have a shot (and still make peanuts for a decent amount of time.)

I will say this is a great way to take money from people who will wake up around age 30 and second guess everything, which is good hustle for the local teams that need cheap labor and the university that needs more money. It's also a great simple degree to offer student athletes. 

Most jobs with teams like the Roughriders and that are usually paid intern spots.. Which isn't the best pay but you get class credit/paid/ and real experience. They the school has connections to get students an actually career. Its both an Undergrad and Masters degree, but again its just recent creation within the last 3-5 years, I believe. 

Again, these degrees appeal to an college football recruit more than a music degree. Also, outside of the professional sport world, the sports management degree helps with things like running a citys parks departments.. A lot of money out there to be made in the public sports leagues.. 

Edited July 13, 2017 by BTG_Fan1

[Quoner]

4 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Most jobs with teams like the Roughriders and that are usually paid intern spots.. Which isn't the best pay but you get class credit/paid/ and real experience. They the school has connections to get students an actually career. Its both an Undergrad and Masters degree, but again its just recent creation within the last 3-5 years, I believe. 

Again, these degrees appeal to an college football recruit more than a music degree. 

I'm talking more about the early parts of a career in sports. It's a crowded field that has no incentive to compensate people at lower levels, yet can also demand a masters degree of them at the same time for some unknown reason. It's something I used to argue for in the past and used to think would be a solution, but having people who know how to run a business correctly with a passion for this university seems more important in the long run. I would love to be wrong and see our students take off and kill it in leadership positions across pro, college and minor league sports, but there's a lot of reasons to be skeptical of something this late in the game and with the long-term future of the sports bubble falling into question is all. 

[BTG_Fan1]

1 minute ago, Quoner said:

I'm talking more about the early parts of a career in sports. It's a crowded field that has no incentive to compensate people at lower levels, yet can also demand a masters degree of them at the same time for some unknown reason. It's something I used to argue for in the past and used to think would be a solution, but having people who know how to run a business correctly with a passion for this university seems more important in the long run. I would love to be wrong and see our students take off and kill it in leadership positions across pro, college and minor league sports, but there's a lot of reasons to be skeptical of something this late in the game and with the long-term future of the sports bubble falling into question is all. 

Agreed it sucks to start out (in the professional sports field) but again that is why it is nice to have the school already have spot lined up with some of these organization and it has nothing do with getting people off the hill. The tidbit we are discussing was just talking about how to change the view of UNT from a Liberal Arts school to something else. 

[untjim1995]

16 minutes ago, All About UNT said:

Cool. Show me the billboards that talk about the One O'clock Jazz band?  Or TV commercials fixated on our music program.  Matter of fact.... most commercials show the business building and Chemistry/Forensic Labs and are very balanced.  Go ahead.... we'll wait.  Lmao.