How to get people off the hill

greenjoe · July 11, 2017

This has troubled me since Apogee opened. The fraternities get most of the blame because they advertise who they are in letters 8 feet tall. But too many people that have tickets or student passes are still milling around the hill well into the first quarter. And then, they may or may not come in.

The same problem exists in the Hub Club. People that have paid their hard earned money sit in the dining area instead of coming out for kickoff even on a moderate temperature day. And when I dash upstairs for another glass of iced tea, many of those same "money supporters" are still sitting, talking, and watching another game on the TV.

I'm looking for suggestions for both problems. If you agree they are problems.

I've wondered if maybe a big spectacular could be made of "time to pack up and go inside the stadium." Maybe Scrappy followed closely by some guy playing a marching snare drum. Sort of a "Pied Piper" sort of parade. Fans would join in behind Scrappy and march into Apogee to their seats. A big bottle neck to be sure when it comes to checking tickets. There must be some way to make that process faster.

And in the Club, how about turning off the TVs for 5 minutes before kickoff and keeping them off for 10 or 15 minutes into the first quarter ? Perhaps stopping food service 5 or 10 minutes before kickoff. Probably a bad idea if somebody pays their money and gets held up coming to the game.

A problem to be sure. But we have developed a culture over the years that there is no real reason to be prompt. Bill Mercer used to refer to the "fashionably late" Fouts Field crowd.

I await your suggestions and comments.

GO MEAN GREEN

Mean Green 93-98 · July 11, 2017

I like the "pied piper" idea. Maybe use hypnotists? Or some kind of free giveaway in the stands at 15 minutes before kickoff?

GMG24 · July 11, 2017

56 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I like the "pied piper" idea. Maybe use hypnotists? Or some kind of free giveaway in the stands at 15 minutes before kickoff?

15 minutes before the game we take all student I'd numbers scanned and draw for a free meal plan/housing for the year. With one catch they have to attend 3 other home games to get their check/credit.

Green P1 · July 11, 2017

Fire ants

Ben Gooding · July 11, 2017

Win at an entertaining rate.

BTG_Fan1 · July 11, 2017

You wanna get people to come to the games... UNT has multiple big name musical Alumni's.... No idea what it costs or anything... Offer them to come do a pre-game, and a half-time concert..

You wanna get the attention of some recruits, and leave an nice little impression on them and get a nice crowd have Alicia keys, or some other come and preform.

HoustonEagle · July 11, 2017

I used to be with you on this mentality. Then reality hit me. I have been a fan since 1992 and for the vast majority of those years we have been varying degrees of bad. So before we get all twisted up about how people are spending their time in and around the game maybe we should create a product that people want to spen their hard earned money on. Let's create a product that people want to be in their seats to see. My guess after 5 years or so of that, the other problems will take care of themselves.

jtm0097 · July 12, 2017

Turn the sprinklers on

KRAM1 · July 12, 2017

2 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Win at an entertaining rate.

I used to be right there with you on this...until I saw what happened to attendance after our first HOD Bowl win when our attendance declined. For me this "win and they will come" concept just doesn't work for UNT. I am just going to have to be proven wrong...and I hope I am because it would mean we are winning.

UNTexas · July 12, 2017

19 minutes ago, KRAM1 said:

I used to be right there with you on this...until I saw what happened to attendance after our first HOD Bowl win when our attendance declined. For me this "win and they will come" concept just doesn't work for UNT. I am just going to have to be proven wrong...and I hope I am because it would mean we are winning.

Attendance massively declined after the HOD win because the team all but quit the following season. We haven't consistently won really ever. Sporadically, we have played well from time to time.

Until the new stadium UNT played in a cricket infested dump that wasn't as nice as most area high school stadiums. Attendance has been better since we got the new stadium, however, our record isn't much better nor are our opponents barring a few exceptions. Bring in better opponents and have winning records and everyone will stop worrying about tailgaters and fraternities. At least they are there so good on them.

The product needs to sell itself and it hasn't done that. The University seems to care for once so let's see where it goes.

2 hours ago, HoustonEagle said:

I used to be with you on this mentality. Then reality hit me. I have been a fan since 1992 and for the vast majority of those years we have been varying degrees of bad. So before we get all twisted up about how people are spending their time in and around the game maybe we should create a product that people want to spen their hard earned money on. Let's create a product that people want to be in their seats to see. My guess after 5 years or so of that, the other problems will take care of themselves.

Totally agree with you here.

greenminer · July 12, 2017

42 minutes ago, KRAM1 said:

I used to be right there with you on this...until I saw what happened to attendance after our first HOD Bowl win when our attendance declined. For me this "win and they will come" concept just doesn't work for UNT. I am just going to have to be proven wrong...and I hope I am because it would mean we are winning.

I think we need more evidence. There was plenty of same-ol-North-Texas sentiment being thrown around after we got walloped by Texas. I don't think it's fair, but that's just what we are battling right now.

I'd like to see how this fan base reacts when we spend several seasons contending for conference titles and bare minimum splitting our OOC schedule.

GMG24 · July 12, 2017

I remember being in HS, yeah 12 years ago sneaking into UNT games after halftime at Fouts with friends, and walking through the parking lot wondering why people weren't in the game.

ABrownGMG · July 12, 2017

I believe it's one of the Arizona schools that has their athletic staff walk around the tailgate site with a mobile ticket printer so fans don't have to wait in line or even move.

I'm not saying that would fix the problem, but as a fraternity alum I know there's a large chunk of people that just don't want to leave the comfort of couches and beer to go into a hot stadium. Could be something that the department could look into in the very near future.

Ben Gooding · July 12, 2017

2 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

I used to be right there with you on this...until I saw what happened to attendance after our first HOD Bowl win when our attendance declined. For me this "win and they will come" concept just doesn't work for UNT. I am just going to have to be proven wrong...and I hope I am because it would mean we are winning.

We average 19,271 fans per home game in 2014. 19.2K fans in a season where we were 1) Awful 2) Had eastern division opponent home games vs FIU & FAU (attendance killers) 3) A Thursday night game vs an opponent that is usually one of our better attended games on a Saturday (La Tech) 4) And in a season where we had a 4-game losing streak of where we lost by an average of 22.5 points per game during that stretch.

Through all of that, we still averaged 19.2K fans per game. We don't have enough prideful alum/students to bring in crowds unless we're at least decent. Fans were hungry. Fans still are hungry, and they're chomping at the bits to see a winner.

And to note, our best season average ever was in 2013 at 21,030 per game. After back to back losing seasons under McCarney. Proof is in the pudding all over college campuses in the Fall, if you win...They will come. We can say but look at 2013 v 2014. Yes, there was a decline in attendance, but like I noted in the first paragraph there is more to the story than that. If anything, all things considered, fans were trying to rally around the team in 2014. But scheduling mishaps and bad play on the field dropped the watermark from 2013. And we've been reeling ever since. People want to be associated with a winner, especially when there is already an organic variable tying an individual to the university, like being an alum.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Ben Gooding

casual fan · July 12, 2017

Simple fact: "Fans" who stay on the hill are not there for the football.

Better product, etc. doesn't really apply in their case.

oldguystudent · July 12, 2017

I am live and let live on this topic. It is the responsibility of the athletic department to market this product and get people to pay and attend. It is not on us to impose such things on others. I spend my Saturdays as I so choose and so do they. If we're really worried about a bunch of teenagers slovenly stumbling about the hill, throwing discarded red solo cups all about, well, the UNT Police Department has really cracked down on that stuff since the Fouts days.

Cerebus · July 12, 2017

10 hours ago, ABrownGMG said:

I believe it's one of the Arizona schools that has their athletic staff walk around the tailgate site with a mobile ticket printer so fans don't have to wait in line or even move.

I'm not saying that would fix the problem, but as a fraternity alum I know there's a large chunk of people that just don't want to leave the comfort of couches and beer to go into a hot stadium. Could be something that the department could look into in the very near future.

That is a great idea, please tweet it at The Wren™.

Also, if all else fails:

keith · July 12, 2017

Not a problem. Focus on your enjoyment and don't let what others do ruin your experience. They are having fun too or they wouldn't be there.

greenminer · July 12, 2017

12 hours ago, ABrownGMG said:

I know there's a large chunk of people that just don't want to leave the comfort of couches and beer to go into a hot stadium. Could be something that the department could look into in the very near future.

Not sure football Jesus can solve this. If they don't want to attend a Texas football game, then they don't want to attend a Texas football game.

SilverEagle · July 12, 2017

13 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

I used to be right there with you on this...until I saw what happened to attendance after our first HOD Bowl win when our attendance declined. For me this "win and they will come" concept just doesn't work for UNT. I am just going to have to be proven wrong...and I hope I am because it would mean we are winning.

This issue can be a real beat down, even for our most "always positive" fans/alumni like Mark. I think by now just about everyone has heard my solution. But here it is again........CULTURE CHANGE. And it must be going on ALL THE TIME.

Does anything think that A&M, UT, OU etc. etc. ever take a day off from promoting their culture? Does anyone think that any of those schools ever just waited for their sports teams to start winning before they addressed the issue of getting people into their stadiums?

Does A&M forget and/or toss aside any of their traditions just because someone who happened to have been put in charge got bored with it?

Did any of the three schools mentioned above ever have any doubt as to what their "correct" school color was? How many times in the last 40-50 years have any of the above mentioned schools radically changed their uni's.

Withers940 · July 12, 2017

Fan give aways are always a plus! Kids love free stuff.

How about a free beer with every ticket purchase (Must Be 21 & Up)

untjim1995 · July 12, 2017

2 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

This issue can be a real beat down, even for our most "always positive" fans/alumni like Mark. I think by now just about everyone has heard my solution. But here it is again........CULTURE CHANGE. And it must be going on ALL THE TIME.

Does anything think that A&M, UT, OU etc. etc. ever take a day off from promoting their culture? Does anyone think that any of those schools ever just waited for their sports teams to start winning before they addressed the issue of getting people into their stadiums?

Does A&M forget and/or toss aside any of their traditions just because someone who happened to have been put in charge got bored with it?

Did any of the three schools mentioned above ever have any doubt as to what their "correct" school color was? How many times in the last 40-50 years have any of the above mentioned schools radically changed their uni's.

Those schools are mega-football factories. Its always going to be en vogue to go to games at those places listed. Here's where you are right, though, while comparing us to other schools.

La Tech, UTSA, UTEP, USM, Arky State, ULL, MUTS, WKU, Marshall, etc...sports, ESPECIALLY FOOTBALL, are the main windows to their university and it is THE priority of their university's marketing resources to advertise their school. Ours is music, fine arts, and cheap tuition--always has been, always will be. The only way we even can see our football program move up in that pecking order would be to see us win over several years, which included several CUSA Divisional and Conference titles, as well as spot in a BCS Bowl game. Otherwise, as we have continually seen for umpteen years now, the primary window will never be on athletics. The faction that is against it, overall, within the UNT Family and in Denton is just too vast.

TBH, its almost miraculous that we average around 20k for announced attendance with what we roll out there most seasons these days. We all certainly know that we don't have that many butts in seats. Could winning cure this? Hopefully...but its gonna take 3 or more years of constant winning to even give us a chance. And even then, as we saw with the SBC Championship run from 2001-2004, that is not a given. The alumni turn out for big games or big name opponents (i.e. bowl games or decent competition). Otherwise, its usually about 12-17K in actual attendance every game against SBCUSA teams and FCS spares.

TheTastyGreek · July 12, 2017

Someone on the hill is more appealing to me than the same someone in their dorm or house. Try to make that hangout less attractive to them, and you'll probably push 9 out of 10 of them away from the stadium, not into it.

MattyV · July 12, 2017

I like the idea of giveaways. 1 free beer inside the stadium up until 5 minutes before kickoff.

VideoEagle · July 12, 2017

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but unless the rules have changes, the TABC says a liquor license holder can't give away alcohol as a prize or premium. You can give it away, but you can't say "Buy X and get a free beer." Sorry.

This actually came up back in the late 70s. The Atlanta Rhythym Section was going to play at homecoming and their hit at the time was "Champaign Jam." KNTU's then promotions manager wanted to hold a lottery as a fund raiser to give away a case of champaign and promote the whole thing on the station. I pointed out the promotion would actually violate federal, state and local laws.