DRC: Report shows UNT ranked 3rd in C-USA in revenue

[Brett Vito]

DRC: USA Today figures show revenue, expense figures for programs nationally

http://beta.dentonrc.com/sports/mean-green/2017/07/06/unt-ranked-third-c-usa-revenue-2015-16-per-report

[Ben Gooding]

But, but, but UNT hasn't invested into the program...Therfore we should be recruiting like garbage...According to some posters. 

Meanwhile, the current #1 recruiting class in CUSA spends less than anyone else. Sooooo

[Caw Caw]

26 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

But, but, but UNT hasn't invested into the program...Therfore we should be recruiting like garbage...According to some posters. 

Meanwhile, the current #1 recruiting class in CUSA spends less than anyone else. Sooooo

It's actually people on your side of the debate who point out that spending on a coach should come with increased recruiting success. I think a coach's standard is the win column on Saturdays. There are so many factors and this oversimplification feels desperate to make a point. Fly a banner about it already. There are so many reasons other teams have recruiting success over us, this however isn't really all that relevant. I've seen some stretches on the recruiting topic, but this one is Mr. Fantastic.

Things that matter more: relationships with high schools and their staffs, specific spending categories like recruiting budget/travel, conference ranking, facilities, proximity to home (As both a plus and a minus), staffs likability, salesmanship, short term and long term success of each school, head-to-head success, coaching turnover,  reputation, quality of education, etc. How any of that = revenue is 3rd recruiting should be 3rd is well beyond me.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Caw Caw

[Ben Gooding]

14 minutes ago, Caw Caw said:

It's actually people on your side of the debate who point out that spending on a coach should come with increased recruiting success. I think a coach's standard is the win column on Saturdays. There are so many factors and this oversimplification feels desperate to make a point. Fly a banner about it already. There are so many reasons other teams have recruiting success over us, this however isn't really all that relevant. I've seen some stretches on the recruiting topic, but this one is Mr. Fantastic.

Things that matter more: relationships with high schools and their staffs, specific spending categories like recruiting budget/travel, conference ranking, facilities, proximity to home (As both a plus and a minus), staffs likability, salesmanship, short term and long term success of each school, head-to-head success, coaching turnover,  reputation, quality of education, etc. How any of that = revenue is 3rd recruiting should be 3rd is well beyond me.

Uh huh. 

This was a direct argument somone was making defending the poor recruiting. The point made by whoever was that programs that have sustained succees and advantageous recruiting was because of the "investment" these programs have made. I'm just pointing out the BS in that. 

No need to fly a banner about anything at this current point. And if dead weight needs to be cut away in the future, I'm confident that WB will do so. 

[GMG24]

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

Uh huh. 

This was a direct argument somone was making defending the poor recruiting. The point made by whoever was that programs that have sustained succees and advantageous recruiting was because of the "investment" these programs have made. I'm just pointing out the BS in that. 

No need to fly a banner about anything at this current point. And if dead weight needs to be cut away in the future, I'm confident that WB will do so. 

Investment vs Facilities are different.  But I don't think our previous lack of facilities LR that was and kind of still is in the 80s, weight room the size of the weight rooms at some MS's in DFW, lack of team room now renovated and much better, lack of adequate nutrition for athletes (competitively speaking with peers) and no real wow facility.  Yes apogee is nice but they see a field where they play not the club level or suites.  That will change with the IPF I think.  Hopefully some serious money is being talked about for that LR, it is a chance to wow a kid or make him think twice.  These things all factor into recruiting and none are the sole reason you win or lose a recruit but they can definitely help/hurt your case. 

I am also curious as to how many have seen facilities of our peers, or even upper echelon of G5s.  

[Mean Green 93-98]

1 hour ago, GMG24 said:

Investment vs Facilities are different.  But I don't think our previous lack of facilities LR that was and kind of still is in the 80s, weight room the size of the weight rooms at some MS's in DFW, lack of team room now renovated and much better, lack of adequate nutrition for athletes (competitively speaking with peers) and no real wow facility.  Yes apogee is nice but they see a field where they play not the club level or suites.  That will change with the IPF I think.  Hopefully some serious money is being talked about for that LR, it is a chance to wow a kid or make him think twice.  These things all factor into recruiting and none are the sole reason you win or lose a recruit but they can definitely help/hurt your case. 

I am also curious as to how many have seen facilities of our peers, or even upper echelon of G5s.  

"LR"?

[UNTLifer]

Locker room

[Mean Green 93-98]

Thanks

[BTG_Fan1]

6 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

But, but, but UNT hasn't invested into the program...Therfore we should be recruiting like garbage...According to some posters. 

Meanwhile, the current #1 recruiting class in CUSA spends less than anyone else. Sooooo

Investing isn't paying off fired coaches and ADs... Investing is building a new soccer/track stadium, IPF, weight room, etc. 

We can say that recruiting staffs are better but UTSA only replaced there DLine coach. Meanwhile SL has replaced 2 DL coaches during his short time at UNT and 5 coaches total with 4 of the 5 going to P5 programs. You may not like the results but apparently other bigger programs apparently think SL is able to bring in quality players and coach them up for these coaches to leave and go to solid programs. 

[GTWT]

Is it significant that BV's table shows that only UNT is running a deficit?

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, GTWT said:

Is it significant that BV's table shows that only UNT is running a deficit?

Yep, and just amazing that some of these departments can manage their money right down to the very last cent to make revenue and expenses match up.  smdh

[Harry]

I would like to see this data broken down more specifically to show things like administrative salaries, recruiting budget, etc.  I like th fact we can compare our performance against othe C-USA schools.  

What this doesn't show is the succcess and failures of hiring the right coaches.  You can have the most financial resources and best facilities in C-USA but if you don't hire the best coaches who can recruit and win it doesn't matter.

[Withers940]

12 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

"LR"?

LOL, I thought he was speaking Spanish. Thank you for Asking

[GMG24]

26 minutes ago, Withers940 said:

LOL, I thought he was speaking Spanish. Thank you for Asking

Sorry got lazy :) 

[GrandGreen]

10 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Yep, and just amazing that some of these departments can manage their money right down to the very last cent to make revenue and expenses match up.  smdh

Actually, it is pretty easy because of all of them are losing money.   So the necessary funds are transferred in to balance the budget at least on a paper basis.  Non-profits have to balance revenue and expenses at some point.  

The problem is that every school reports differently and by using allocations between the AD and school, the budget can be made to be about what you want it to be.  NT's budget is boasted because of the relatively large amount of debt service on Apogee.  All those expenses have to be offset by revenues or subsidies.  So NT's budget is artificially high because of the debt services costs which are much higher than the norm in CUSA.   This type of expenses may indicate that NT is investing a lot more money and it is, but not for normal operating budget items like salaries, scholarships, promotion, etc.     

 

[p_phelps]

On 7/6/2017 at 6:48 PM, Ben Gooding said:

But, but, but UNT hasn't invested into the program...Therfore we should be recruiting like garbage...According to some posters. 

Meanwhile, the current #1 recruiting class in CUSA spends less than anyone else. Sooooo

Tend to agree, we are investing money, but is it the right way? Our locker room is meh (could have been huge selling point). I'm at the point where we go find the best recruiter that's an assistant an give him a blank check and tell him to get us ball players. Contract bonus for each recruiting battle won that a rival team as offered.

Throwing money into something blindly doesn't make things work all the time. We need to have a plan and make smart investments.

Edited July 8, 2017 by p_phelps

[Ben Gooding]

2 hours ago, p_phelps said:

Tend to agree, we are investing money, but is it the right way? Our locker room is meh (could have been huge selling point). I'm at the point where we go find the best recruiter that's an assistant an give him a blank check and tell him to get us ball players. Contract bonus for each recruiting battle won that a rival team as offered.

Throwing money into something blindly doesn't make things work all the time. We need to have a plan and make smart investments.

I agree with you. I wish we could see where money is being allocated to. I think the locker room is a joke. I would be ashamed to unveil that to a college football team as acceptable. BUT, at least it doesn't have green eye balls in it. So they have that going for them. 

As for your incentive plan...why not. But it does seem like a plan for inexperienced recruiters. We just need to bite the bullet and pay our top recruiters the most money. If DC/OC don't like it...bye. If the DC/OC would like to take that burden on as our top recruiter(s) make it financially worth their while. But something has to give.  

[UNTLifer]

13 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Actually, it is pretty easy because of all of them are losing money.   So the necessary funds are transferred in to balance the budget at least on a paper basis.  Non-profits have to balance revenue and expenses at some point.  

The problem is that every school reports differently and by using allocations between the AD and school, the budget can be made to be about what you want it to be.  NT's budget is boasted because of the relatively large amount of debt service on Apogee.  All those expenses have to be offset by revenues or subsidies.  So NT's budget is artificially high because of the debt services costs which are much higher than the norm in CUSA.   This type of expenses may indicate that NT is investing a lot more money and it is, but not for normal operating budget items like salaries, scholarships, promotion, etc.     

 

I was aware.  I was just being a smart ass.

[BTG_Fan1]

We all should be able to agree that the Locker Room is somewhat of a luxury in terms of putting money into it. Yes it would be nice to have a raised ceiling with the UNT Eagle design, and yes it would be awesome to have the under glow/back glow like the basketball team. But that stuff is just a cherry on top. 

What needs to be done first is the IPF and the expansion of the offices. We shouldn't make the weight-room to an average G5 weight room, we need to be the best and then some and have it match p5 schools. The IPF is an IPF, you can't do much to make that different from others besides the exterior look, but again it needs to look the part of a P5 IPF(Hell have a brick design of Joe Green). The nutritional center as well needs to be something that rivals the p5s.

Yes all this will cost a lot of money, but UNT needs to view this as a way to jump ahead of other programs and show they are serious. Look the part of a P5 program, and it will leave kids with a nice impression when they have to compare UNT to other programs. Also, when re-alignment comes up it will be another nice piece for UNT to sale to conferences showing the commitment/investment. 

WB has shown that the commitment with improvements to the Tennis Facility, and the announcement of the Soccer/Track stadium.

To make up some of the $, the school could easily sale a brick with ones name/class and have an alumni walk way into the Apogee/ whatever sports complex that a person wants, among other things.. Heck I'm sure that some people would even come out of the wood-work if they saw some of this stuff.. and I'm sure some people would donate a little more as well. It would also likely get the attention of recent/ up coming gradates as well. 

 

[GrandGreen]

Locker room is a joke.  Funny, how views change; I can't think of anything less important than how fancy a locker room is.   Sure some recruits are wowed by the insane locker rooms now becoming common place.  Facilities like locker rooms, weight rooms, and indoor practice areas have become important pieces in the athletic arms race.  Not going to argue that but, I doubt NT is losing a lot of recruits because of the locker rooms.  

The horrible truth is that NT's recruiting has not significantly or at all improved since that awesome Fouts was the face of NT athletics.  So there are definitely a lot of factors more important than a tricked up locker room when it comes to recruiting.  My guess is the appeal of Las Vegas style locker room dies off very fast.  

Baker is not a magician, it takes money to advance the program.  Although that element has substantially improved at NT, it is still not there to satisfy every player or fan want.  Every budget item has to be prioritized.   Ipf, fancy locker rooms, better coaches salaries, recruiting budgets, etc; adding to one budget area delays another.  

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Locker room is a joke.  Funny, how views change; I can't think of anything less important than how fancy a locker room is.   Sure some recruits are wowed by the insane locker rooms now becoming common place.  Facilities like locker rooms, weight rooms, and indoor practice areas have become important pieces in the athletic arms race.  Not going to argue that but, I doubt NT is losing a lot of recruits because of the locker rooms.  

The horrible truth is that NT's recruiting has not significantly or at all improved since that awesome Fouts was the face of NT athletics.  So there are definitely a lot of factors more important than a tricked up locker room when it comes to recruiting.  My guess is the appeal of Las Vegas style locker room dies off very fast.  

Baker is not a magician, it takes money to advance the program.  Although that element has substantially improved at NT, it is still not there to satisfy every player or fan want.  Every budget item has to be prioritized.   Ipf, fancy locker rooms, better coaches salaries, recruiting budgets, etc; adding to one budget area delays another.  

Facility upgrades should far exceed new coaching contracts with increased salaries. Even moreso in our case, when no one was after our current guy. 

[RBP79]

I too would like to see a break down of expenses...when your paying for 2 coaches and a AD that were fired I'm sure it impacts the bottom line for several years. Recruiting will turn around if SL can start winning. Its nice to have all bells and whistles that potential recruits are looking for but top tier recruits want to be part of a "winning" program.

[BTG_Fan1]

On 7/10/2017 at 8:47 AM, GrandGreen said:

Locker room is a joke.  Funny, how views change; I can't think of anything less important than how fancy a locker room is.   Sure some recruits are wowed by the insane locker rooms now becoming common place.  Facilities like locker rooms, weight rooms, and indoor practice areas have become important pieces in the athletic arms race.  Not going to argue that but, I doubt NT is losing a lot of recruits because of the locker rooms.  

The horrible truth is that NT's recruiting has not significantly or at all improved since that awesome Fouts was the face of NT athletics.  So there are definitely a lot of factors more important than a tricked up locker room when it comes to recruiting.  My guess is the appeal of Las Vegas style locker room dies off very fast.  

Baker is not a magician, it takes money to advance the program.  Although that element has substantially improved at NT, it is still not there to satisfy every player or fan want.  Every budget item has to be prioritized.   Ipf, fancy locker rooms, better coaches salaries, recruiting budgets, etc; adding to one budget area delays another.  

Locker-room should be the last upgrade, and with the upgrades that we have made in the past 2 years (it doesn't seem to look much different at all). The need for a bigger weight room, more office space for coaches and positional groups are needed, and the IPF. along with the nutritional center as well... Those should be the first thing and things that we do just not to get even with other programs, but things we do even better to be the best in the G5s and hopefully rival some P5s

This is what Texas Tech did. Its nice to have this but the locker-room doesn't do anything to improve on the field play, its just the cherry on top.