Liberty University a future CUSA program?

[Salsa_Verde]

Liberty University is not messing around.

https://pilotonline.com/sports/columnist/harry-minium/liberty-university-already-spends-more-on-athletics-than-odu-and/article_ce714ec9-31db-5420-8e4b-ce63bc2e2474.html

Edited July 1, 2017 by Salsa_Verde

[TreeFiddy]

ODU's inflated athletic budget numbers have been a source of discussion for a few years.  Not sure what sort of creative accounting they are using, but evidently JMU and LU are also in on the game.

[oldguystudent]

God I hate them (irony intended).  I hope they get caught doing some Baylor shit. 

[Salsa_Verde]

Interestingly enough Ian McCaw, former AD at Baylor, is now the AD at Liberty. 

[Harry]

Take a look at their future schedules.  They get Baylor this year and their 2018 schedule is like our  trail of tears in 1995:

"The seven-game road schedule features a matchup with UVa for the first time on Nov. 10. LU and UVa agreed to a 2-for-1 series with the Flames returning to Charlottesville on Nov. 23, 2019, and the Cavaliers visiting Williams Stadium on Sept. 11, 2027.

Wake Forest, which was originally on the future schedule in 2018, restructured the previous contract into a 2-for-1 series. Instead of paying Liberty a guarantee to make one trip to Winston-Salem, the Demon Deacons will host the Flames on Sept. 17, 2022, and either Sept. 3, 4 or 5, 2016, and Liberty will host Wake Forest on Aug. 30, 2025.

“We’re trying to have at least one prominent home game each year,” McCaw said. “Being able to attract upcoming opponents from Power 5 conferences is a great accomplishment.”

The remainder of the road schedule in 2018 includes a meeting with Army on Sept. 8, back-to-back weeks in the Land of Enchantment to play New Mexico (Sept. 29) and New Mexico State (Oct. 6), and three consecutive weeks away from Lynchburg at UMass, UVa and Auburn from Nov. 3 through Nov. 17."

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liberty_university/liberty-announces-football-schedule/article_81232054-37ee-11e7-be01-376129245bd0.html

Their funding and facilities can't be ignored.  It will be an interesting program to watch the next couple of years.

[KRAM1]

I just don't understand the angst over playing Liberty based on its founder and philosophy. Based on it being perceived by some as a "lesser" athletic program OK, but the other...I don't get it. It is a football game. No one is trying to "convert" anyone to the Jones philosophy or to being more "conservative".  It is a football game...period. I recall the days folks said similar things about ORU and BYU. Anyone wonder if the Liberty crowd is thinking why they should be playing such "liberal" schools as UNT? Highly doubtful as they are trying to do the same thing UNT is trying to do...build a winning program and GET NOTICED on the larger national stage.  

And...more to the point, this series with Liberty seems to be part of a bigger scheme to "improve" UNT's schedule of out OOC games.  Like everyone else, I am waiting to see how this all develops, but am still hearing this Liberty series is just part of a larger plan.

We will see, of course, given time.

Anyone ever seen the Liberty campus? I have...much more impressive than I imagined it would be.  Pretty good size and modern.  I also think folks should not brazenly put the Liberty game in the "win column" too soon.  It should be a very competitive game.  The Liberty Alums and administrators are throwing lots of money at that program right now.

[GTWT]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 11:49 AM, KRAM1 said:

I just don't understand the angst over playing Liberty based on its founder and philosophy. Based on it being perceived by some as a "lesser" athletic program OK, but the other...I don't get it. It is a football game. No one is trying to "convert" anyone to the Jones philosophy or to being more "conservative".  It is a football game...period. I recall the days folks said similar things about ORU and BYU. Anyone wonder if the Liberty crowd is thinking why they should be playing such "liberal" schools as UNT? Highly doubtful as they are trying to do the same thing UNT is trying to do...build a winning program and GET NOTICED on the larger national stage.  

And...more to the point, this series with Liberty seems to be part of a bigger scheme to "improve" UNT's schedule of out OOC games.  Like everyone else, I am waiting to see how this all develops, but am still hearing this Liberty series is just part of a larger plan.

We will see, of course, given time.

Anyone ever seen the Liberty campus? I have...much more impressive than I imagined it would be.  Pretty good size and modern.  I also think folks should not brazenly put the Liberty game in the "win column" too soon.  It should be a very competitive game.  The Liberty Alums and administrators are throwing lots of money at that program right now.

Playing Liberty in football would be like the USA playing North Korea in the Olympics.  We shouldn't tarnish our image as a legitimate institution of higher education & we shouldn't lend credence to such refuges from the enlightenment as Liberty, ORU, & Jim Jones U.

 

[Green Lantern]

On 7/1/2017 at 10:49 AM, KRAM1 said:

I just don't understand the angst over playing Liberty based on its founder and philosophy. Based on it being perceived by some as a "lesser" athletic program OK, but the other...I don't get it. It is a football game. No one is trying to "convert" anyone to the Jones philosophy or to being more "conservative".  It is a football game...period. I recall the days folks said similar things about ORU and BYU. Anyone wonder if the Liberty crowd is thinking why they should be playing such "liberal" schools as UNT? Highly doubtful as they are trying to do the same thing UNT is trying to do...build a winning program and GET NOTICED on the larger national stage.  

And...more to the point, this series with Liberty seems to be part of a bigger scheme to "improve" UNT's schedule of out OOC games.  Like everyone else, I am waiting to see how this all develops, but am still hearing this Liberty series is just part of a larger plan.

We will see, of course, given time.

Anyone ever seen the Liberty campus? I have...much more impressive than I imagined it would be.  Pretty good size and modern.  I also think folks should not brazenly put the Liberty game in the "win column" too soon.  It should be a very competitive game.  The Liberty Alums and administrators are throwing lots of money at that program right now.

Agree that it's just a game, albeit not a very exciting one on our schedule. However, if it allowed us to get Houston and another attractive TBA OOC series (hopefully rumors are legit here) on the books, I call it an overall win.

The fact that we can't "chalk it up as a win" is truly a sad state of affairs though. Shows just how long we've middled around as a football program without sustained success. 

[Harry]

I won't get in the politics of this, but if they can help us build this conference and be a good partner I would be open to it.  I didn't know that much about ODU either but they have turned out to be strong.  UTSA came directly in and have faired well.

Rice is not in a conference with us because they feel we share in the same academic air.  They did it because it was their best option to compete and build their program.

 

[Green Lantern]

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

I won't get in the politics of this, but if they can help us build this conference and be a good partner I would be open to it.  I didn't know that much about ODU either but they have turned out to be strong.  UTSA came directly in and have faired well.

Rice is not in a conference with us because they feel we share in the same academic air.  They did it because it was their best option to compete and build their program.

 

Agree, in that I don't give a crap about the politics associated with it all. My question, and I only care about this from a North Texas perspective, is would they be better than adding ASU and/or ULL for us? My answer is no. On top of it all, CUSA already has too many members as is. West should split and merge with a couple of the top SBC programs in the region.

[Salsa_Verde]

2 hours ago, GTWT said:

Playing Liberty in football would be like the USA playing North Korea in the Olympics.  We shouldn't tarnish our image as a legitimate institution of higher education & we shouldn't lend credence to such refuges from the enlightenment as Liberty, ORU, & Jim Jones U.

I don't believe playing Liberty would tarnish our image, by following your metric would playing Baylor tarnish UNT? What about any university associated with the Catholic Church? Lets judge Liberty (no pun intended) on its emerging athletic program and leave the politics to the talking heads. 

 

On 7/1/2017 at 11:49 AM, KRAM1 said:

they are trying to do the same thing UNT is trying to do...build a winning program and GET NOTICED on the larger national stage.  

Agreed politics aside they are spending a lot of money AND have a fan base willing to pay to see the athletic program succeed. I wouldn't call this a must win but if UNT were to lose it would look bad. Forgive me if I sound hyperbolic. 

[DeepGreen]

Agree. Leave politics out of it.  I doubt any of you anti Liberty folks would be against playing a series with BYU. Didn't think so.

And  I don't think Liberty is a definite win.  Anyone remember our first game against UAB?

Edited July 3, 2017 by DeepGreen

[GTWT]

Deep & Salsa Verde,

I have no problem with playing Baylor (though I wish they would get their acts together), or BYU, or Notre Dame.  Those schools haven't rejected science.  Liberty has.  This isn't about politics - this is about educational philosophy.   Baylor, BYU, & Notre Dame are main-stream universities - they teach accepted history & science - legitimate science.  They don't insist their professors accept creationism.  They don't insist their religious interpretations be believed by everyone associated with them.  They allow their faculty & students to think for themselves - even if that means questioning authority

Liberty can require their students, staff, & faculty profess any dogma they want.  But UNT & other universities shouldn't legitimize Liberty by associating with them in any way - including athletics. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by GTWT

[GreenMachine]

11 hours ago, GTWT said:

Playing Liberty in football would be like the USA playing North Korea in the Olympics.  We shouldn't tarnish our image as a legitimate institution of higher education & we shouldn't lend credence to such refuges from the enlightenment as Liberty, ORU, & Jim Jones U.

 

Yet we get in a tizzy when SMU says the same thing about us.

[UNTLifer]

No thank you.  

Edited July 4, 2017 by UNTLifer

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

AGREE ..... What they teach is not mainstream at all .... don't compare them to BYU etc.  I do not want to help their academic credibility or give them more publicity... 

[KRAM1]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 3:52 PM, SCREAMING EAGLE-66 said:

AGREE ..... What they teach is not mainstream at all .... don't compare them to BYU etc.  I do not want to help their academic credibility or give them more publicity... 

How familiar are you with their academics? I have worked with several Liberty grads and they were excellent...professional, knowledgeable, spoke and wrote well, showed up and stayed late, volunteered to do the little extra things around the office, did not take "days off" to take their pets to the vet like some of our employees and left their religion and philosophy at the door.  I would be more than happy to hire their grads as my experience with them was noting but positive.  Have you been to the campus?  I have...not to tour or anything., but just to walk around (I like college campuses)...pretty impressive and much larger than I expected.  And, no one tried to preach or "convert" us heathen Episcopalians while we were on the campus, but several did say hello in passing.

[GreenMachine]

1 hour ago, KRAM1 said:

How familiar are you with their academics? I have worked with several Liberty grads and they were excellent...professional, knowledgeable, spoke and wrote well, showed up and stayed late, volunteered to do the little extra things around the office, did not take "days off" to take their pets to the vet like some of our employees and left their religion and philosophy at the door.  I would be more than happy to hire their grads as my experience with them was noting but positive.  Have you been to the campus?  I have...not to tour or anything., but just to walk around (I like college campuses)...pretty impressive and much larger than I expected.  And, no one tried to preach or "convert" us heathen Episcopalians while we were on the campus, but several did say hello in passing.

but the all important measuring stick for a college campus. Was their hotties and fatties readily available?

 

[KRAM1]

32 minutes ago, GreenMachine said:

but the all important measuring stick for a college campus. Was their hotties and fatties readily available?

 

😂😂😂

[GTWT]

16 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

How familiar are you with their academics?

Pseudoscience is a bad thing. 

[KRAM1]

5 hours ago, GTWT said:

Pseudoscience is a bad thing. 

Which class offering at Liberty are you referring to?  Again, not trying to defend these guys at all, but it seems a lot of folks are going on rumor and innuendo over facts about this place.  Nothing much different than ORU, BYU, etc. from what I can tell.

[GTWT]

6 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Which class offering at Liberty are you referring to? 

http://www.liberty.edu/academics/arts-sciences/creation/

[KRAM1]

21 minutes ago, GTWT said:

http://www.liberty.edu/academics/arts-sciences/creation/

Yes, figured that required class on creationism was what you were talking about. Certainly not my cup of tea...and yours either it appears, but it is a private college. Check out the offerings at ORU and BYU in their religion area. They are private schools as well. And, I don't know if it still does, but Notre Dame once...maybe still...required a religion class. Should we never schedule Notre Dame, ORU or BYU in football or basketball? Like I originalluy said....it is a football game...not an indoctrination program.

Edited July 13, 2017 by KRAM1

[GTWT]

10 hours ago, KRAM1 said:

Yes, figured that required class on creationism was what you were talking about. Certainly not my cup of tea...and yours either it appears, but it is a private college. Check out the offerings at ORU and BYU in their religion area. They are private schools as well. And, I don't know if it still does, but Notre Dame once...maybe still...required a religion class. Should we never schedule Notre Dame, ORU or BYU in football or basketball? Like I originalluy said....it is a football game...not an indoctrination program.

I have no problem with BYU, ND, or even Liberty offering religion classes.  That class is appropriate for a private college - especially one affiliated with a denomination.  I have a great problem with any school teaching pseudoscience.  I have a great problem with any school that teaches religion, in the form of creationism, while calling it science. 

Edited July 13, 2017 by GTWT

[KRAM1]

2 minutes ago, GTWT said:

I have no problem with BYU, ND, or even Liberty offering religion classes.  That class is appropriate for a private college - especially one affiliated with a denomination.  I have a great problem with any school teaching pseudoscience.  I have a great problem with any school that teaches religion, in the form of creationism, while calling it science. 

And, I have absolutely no problem with you having a problem with that. But, pray tell (see what I did there! 😂😂) what in the hell does that have with playing them in a football game? It is a football game...not a brain washing in creationism!