One thing to keep in mind on recruiting and assistants

Harry · June 29, 2017

No one would argue that we had a lot of assistant turnover this past cycle after the surprising bowl game season. I think in terms of recruiting expectation we focus a lot on Littrell's salary increase and expect immediate results. The truth is assistants do most of the recruiting. So, I needed to remind myself how many recruiting positions we filled after last season:

Chuck Langston OLine

Jeff Koonz LB's

Marc Yellock DLine

Marty Biagi Special Teams

These four may not seem like a lot but that's 4 out of 9 total assistants... almost half (44%) of your staff that can potentially hit the road.

These new guys have to get situated, figure out what they are selling and start building or rebuilding relationships at high schools. That is why keeping your staff intact is so damn important. The spin we hear after mass defections, "Well that means we hired good coaches" is true and it may help you to lure quality replacements, but it doesn't help recruiting one bit. Recruiting has specific timelines and camp dates and time sensitive things that favor staff continuity.

And I realize it is a fact of life at a G5 program that you are going to lose assistants every year unless you stink. So having the same staff in place when Mac's tenure was nearing the end was not necessarily a good thing.

So, all I am saying is perhaps we should give them some more time before we judge. I have heard and read good things about all 4 especially Koonz and Biagi. We had an East Carolina fan talk highly of Yellock. Langston has been around the block but seems to have some good connections as his territory at Lamar included Golden Triangle, East Texas, Texas JCs, and Oklahoma. These four guys could really start to shine in the future and perhaps even the second half of the recruiting game this year.

BTG_Fan1 · June 29, 2017

We have to remember this is SL 3rd DLine coach that he has had here at UNT. He had KP for a few weeks then tech took him, and then we had LeBlanc for less than a year and now on Yellock.

I do agree that right now that the new guys are still trying to adjust to the changes. Hoping to see Koonz, Yellock, Biagi and Langston take it up a level like we saw with Davis, LeBlanc did last year once they settled in

Also, my only worry about changing so many coaches is the message changes and can't really build those steady relationships with HS staffs. I understand that HS coaches most likely understand the movement of college coaches. It was brought up with Beans HC that he had seen more outreach and connection with this staff than previous staff.

@GMG24 maybe you ca provide some input, but does it hurt UNT with the mass staff turnover?

UNTLifer · June 29, 2017

The message should stay the same under Littrell, just the messenger changes.

GMG24 · June 30, 2017

4 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We have to remember this is SL 3rd DLine coach that he has had here at UNT. He had KP for a few weeks then tech took him, and then we had LeBlanc for less than a year and now on Yellock.

I do agree that right now that the new guys are still trying to adjust to the changes. Hoping to see Koonz, Yellock, Biagi and Langston take it up a level like we saw with Davis, LeBlanc did last year once they settled in

Also, my only worry about changing so many coaches is the message changes and can't really build those steady relationships with HS staffs. I understand that HS coaches most likely understand the movement of college coaches. It was brought up with Beans HC that he had seen more outreach and connection with this staff than previous staff.

@GMG24 maybe you ca provide some input, but does it hurt UNT with the mass staff turnover?

Nope, so long as new guys make their faces known kids don't know the difference. Coaches do but can easily update contact info if they're present which we seem to be.

BTG_Fan1 · June 30, 2017

7 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

Nope, so long as new guys make their faces known kids don't know the difference. Coaches do but can easily update contact info if they're present which we seem to be.

I figured it didn't matter because everyone would understand going onto bigger programs. Just didn't know if repeated new faces was somewhat of a negative compared to seeing the same faces year in and year out.

Thanks for the info

Ben Gooding · June 30, 2017

@Harry I disagree. Though some valid points were made. But I disagree with the entire context of this message. We can all agree that a big problem with our program is "culture." This message manifests the very culture we're desperately trying to overcome. "Give it time", "trust in the staff", fill in the blank etc. does this particular program and university no good. It's just more of the same. Expectations on the field and on the recruiting trail needs a revolution. Not this. We need the opposite of this. This is what they call, for the birds.

1. Have a top 6 CUSA recruiting class year in and year out.

2. Be competitive in ALL games.

3. Vie for division titles

4. Be bowl eligible more than you are not.

I'm not asking for Bill Belechick or Nick Saban type results. I'm asking for our head coach to not embarrass the University and its alum, and to win more than you lose while maintaining a competitive edge in every game. And to recruit the talent to make this possible while in hand getting the alum to have real hope, not arbitrary hope like the many and countless years before.

UNTLifer · June 30, 2017

3 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

@Harry I disagree. Though some valid points were made. But I disagree with the entire context of this message. We can all agree that a big problem with our program is "culture." This message manifests the very culture we're desperately trying to overcome. "Give it time", "trust in the staff", fill in the blank etc. does this particular program and university no good. It's just more of the same. Expectations on the field and on the recruiting trail needs a revolution. Not this. We need the opposite of this. This is what they call, for the birds.

1. Have a top 6 CUSA recruiting class year in and year out.

2. Be competitive in ALL games.

3. Vie for division titles

4. Be bowl eligible more than you are not.

I'm not asking for Bill Belechick or Nick Saban type results. I'm asking for our head coach to not embarrass the University and its alum, and to win more than you lose while maintaining a competitive edge in every game. And to recruit the talent to make this possible while in hand getting the alum to have real hope, not arbitrary hope like the many and countless years before.

I don't think anyone disagrees but we also must understand what our history has created and that a change for the positive will take a little time. The quote from Bean's head coach speaks volumes, not only about this very topic but also about how SL and staff are working to overcome this problem. Perception is reality. This won't change with the snap of your fingers.

GrandGreen · June 30, 2017

6 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I don't think anyone disagrees but we also must understand what our history has created and that a change for the positive will take a little time. The quote from Bean's head coach speaks volumes, not only about this very topic but also about how SL and staff are working to overcome this problem. Perception is reality. This won't change with the snap of your fingers.

I have heard the same story with about every coaching change. Some coach or coaches quoted as to now NT is paying attention to their high school which has been ignored in the past. Dodge after Dickey, McCarney after Dodge and now Littrell after McCarney. Maybe it is true, that Littrell staff is doing a better overall job with high school coaches or perhaps it is just a few schools are getting more attention because they have players that NT is focusing on.

Ben Gooding · June 30, 2017

6 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I don't think anyone disagrees but we also must understand what our history has created and that a change for the positive will take a little time. The quote from Bean's head coach speaks volumes, not only about this very topic but also about how SL and staff are working to overcome this problem. Perception is reality. This won't change with the snap of your fingers.

Yes, that HC's quote was telling.

And giving any coach with just a year coaching under his belt time is understandable and is a given. It doesn't need to be shouted from the rooftops. We know he'll need time, or most should know that. But expectations still have to be a part of that time line. Expectations have to be ingrained into the fabric of the fan base. No coach, administration, president or athletic director should allow these expectations to waver. We are here for the long haul. None of them are alum and all of them would jump at the opportunity to fry a bigger fish. It is our job as a fan base to make it feel like all of the above are in a pressure cooker that is on the brink of combustion.

I get the need for time. We should all have a that as an unsaid issue. But we should still have guidelines and expectations and they should be in semi conjuction with one another.

On the field, SL has met early expectations.

Off the field, he is struggling.

We need continuous momentum as a program trying to climb out of the depths of hell. Solid recruiting can create that momentum and give the fan base real hope.

I have not at all thrown in the towel with this staff, but I will be critical and cynical when expectations aren't being met.

A perfect example of the expectation with a lively fan base is LSU. We aren't as big as they are, but that doesn't mean the core nucleus of UNT fans can't try to meet that standard of what a fanatic is.

xyresic · June 30, 2017

Dear WB,

All we are asking is that our fanbase rivals that of a blue blood of college football squad that plays in the best P5 conference. They have the most active NFL players of any college and have multiple NCAA championships. We will also need the 11th best winning percentage of all-time, 5 hall of fame NCAA coaches, a sold out 100k seat stadium and the 16th most wins in college football history. That's all we need, this is straight forward.

We are being reasonable here and I hope you understand.

Edited June 30, 2017 by xyresic

Ben Gooding · June 30, 2017

7 minutes ago, xyresic said:

Dear WB,

All we are asking is that our fanbase rivals that of a blue blood of college football squad that plays in the best P5 conference. They have the most active NFL players of any college and have multiple NCAA championships. We will also need the 11th best winning percentage of all-time, 5 hall of fame NCAA coaches, a sold out 100k seat stadium and the 16th most wins in college football history. That's all we need, this is straight forward.

We are being reasonable here and I hope you understand.

Yep, because you took what I said in complete context.

You are a true and through Mean Green fan.

Harry · June 30, 2017

10 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

@Harry I disagree. Though some valid points were made. But I disagree with the entire context of this message. We can all agree that a big problem with our program is "culture." This message manifests the very culture we're desperately trying to overcome. "Give it time", "trust in the staff", fill in the blank etc. does this particular program and university no good. It's just more of the same. Expectations on the field and on the recruiting trail needs a revolution. Not this. We need the opposite of this. This is what they call, for the birds.

1. Have a top 6 CUSA recruiting class year in and year out.

2. Be competitive in ALL games.

3. Vie for division titles

4. Be bowl eligible more than you are not.

I'm not asking for Bill Belechick or Nick Saban type results. I'm asking for our head coach to not embarrass the University and its alum, and to win more than you lose while maintaining a competitive edge in every game. And to recruit the talent to make this possible while in hand getting the alum to have real hope, not arbitrary hope like the many and countless years before.

I think this is reasonable. Back when we joined the Belt, there was some initial disappointment but the president at that time Pohl felt like it was a conference we could dominate. And we did well in that conference for a good period of time. When we joined C-USA we were all tickled with how well we started things out in the 1st year going 9-4 and winning a bowl game.

There is clearly a huge step up in terms of our administration and its support of athletics. The Mac and McCasland buyouts would have been unheard of in years past. We are now paying our head football coach $900K a year and have dramatically increased the assistant pool. For comaprison, in 2005 our entire football staff payroll was $774,000 with Darrell Dickey making $204K which was 4th in the Belt. There was an average of $63,278 paid to each assistant at that time. Now our top assistants are making >$200K. Our social media game under Mac was basically non existent. Now it appears that we are starting to see impressive results in our social media output.

It has taken too long, but over time, every aspect of athletics seems to have been addressed whether it is the AD position, facilities, coaching etc. The only item that seems to be lagging is recruiting. And that is why there is concern, we have seen in the past what mediocre recruiting results can bring.

I agree that the expectations need to be very high.

Aldo · June 30, 2017

13 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

@Harry I disagree. Though some valid points were made. But I disagree with the entire context of this message. We can all agree that a big problem with our program is "culture." This message manifests the very culture we're desperately trying to overcome. "Give it time", "trust in the staff", fill in the blank etc. does this particular program and university no good. It's just more of the same. Expectations on the field and on the recruiting trail needs a revolution. Not this. We need the opposite of this. This is what they call, for the birds.

1. Have a top 6 CUSA recruiting class year in and year out.

2. Be competitive in ALL games.

3. Vie for division titles

4. Be bowl eligible more than you are not.

I'm not asking for Bill Belechick or Nick Saban type results. I'm asking for our head coach to not embarrass the University and its alum, and to win more than you lose while maintaining a competitive edge in every game. And to recruit the talent to make this possible while in hand getting the alum to have real hope, not arbitrary hope like the many and countless years before.

Sign me up, but I don't know what we have right now in our Athletic Department as a whole (not coaches). It's in the middle of a transition, and whatever conclusion I may come to right now may be wrong next month or next year. Wins in the football column don't mean anything if the ADepartment doesn't do their part.

Ben Gooding · June 30, 2017

15 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Sign me up, but I don't know what we have right now in our Athletic Department as a whole (not coaches). It's in the middle of a transition, and whatever conclusion I may come to right now may be wrong next month or next year. Wins in the football column don't mean anything if the ADepartment doesn't do their part.

Agreed. But if 1-4 happen on a consistent basis, the athletic department has done its part. The next step would be for them to have continuous capitalization on any success or string of successes. I think the right pieces are in place for capitalization of sucess WHEN it happens.

*To add, the AD still seems to be holding numbers and concrete goals to the vest. Air the dirty laundry to get people to understand the help needed in the athletic department. Numbers are handy, and no one wants to hear about the % improvement. That's mumbo jumbo. Put concrete numbers out, real solutions to improve, and set goals. The honeymoon is over. The grace period and evaluation is done. Just do it.