DRC: Breaking -- Tyler Wilson has officially left UNT's program

[Marty]

Have to be serious about the student part of student/athlete!

[greenminer]

@aztecskin 5. profit....?

[BTG_Fan1]

Yes it sucks to lose kids like Wilson, Goree, Ivery...

But Goree would have been passed up by the likes of Guyton and Rico this off-season. Not like Goree did a lot last year. Heck, after Goree left last year he was replaced by a PWO WR that we didn't know about who ended up having a solid game. Goree had the talent and showed flashes but that was it. Rico and Tyler Wilson both showed flashes as well. As great as Buyers, TT, Smiley, and Goree as leaders of the WR-Core last year, give me Guyton, Smiley, Rico, and K.Smith over them this year. 

Ivery is the most likely the biggest whole we have to replace. Jeffery hasn't been able to stay healthy, nor has Tucker. Wyche didn't produce but that is likely just being a younger player, and getting limited time. Nic Smith could fill that role, but we haven't seen it done. Jeffery Wilson played his heart out in the HOD, and i expect him to do the same this year and hopefully he will get more help from Nic Smith. The best problem for us to have is that Smith or Wyche are so talented and such play-makers this year that they force the staff to use them and move wilson to the side-lines allowing him to stay healthy. 

Tyler Wilson, hurts because he was a young WR that we saw a huge jump in terms of development from the season to the bowl game. Yes it will be easy to replace those 13 catches, but that practice times that he got is what hurts us. We don't know exactly who will fill the role that he had, but Griffin or Darden are likely with the likes of kids like Lawerence or Duhon being PWO that fit the role that Wilson played. 

[SilverEagle]

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Yes it sucks to lose kids like Wilson, Goree, Ivery...

But Goree would have been passed up by the likes of Guyton and Rico this off-season. Not like Goree did a lot last year. Heck, after Goree left last year he was replaced by a PWO WR that we didn't know about who ended up having a solid game. Goree had the talent and showed flashes but that was it. Rico and Tyler Wilson both showed flashes as well. As great as Buyers, TT, Smiley, and Goree as leaders of the WR-Core last year, give me Guyton, Smiley, Rico, and K.Smith over them this year. 

Ivery is the most likely the biggest whole we have to replace. Jeffery hasn't been able to stay healthy, nor has Tucker. Wyche didn't produce but that is likely just being a younger player, and getting limited time. Nic Smith could fill that role, but we haven't seen it done. Jeffery Wilson played his heart out in the HOD, and i expect him to do the same this year and hopefully he will get more help from Nic Smith. The best problem for us to have is that Smith or Wyche are so talented and such play-makers this year that they force the staff to use them and move wilson to the side-lines allowing him to stay healthy. 

Tyler Wilson, hurts because he was a young WR that we saw a huge jump in terms of development from the season to the bowl game. Yes it will be easy to replace those 13 catches, but that practice times that he got is what hurts us. We don't know exactly who will fill the role that he had, but Griffin or Darden are likely with the likes of kids like Lawerence or Duhon being PWO that fit the role that Wilson played. 

FWIW I saw a lot of hungry WR's during the spring........ some of which I had never seen before.

The most notable was Duhon (#27), Chumley (#15), Bussy (#8), Lawrence (#32) and Guyton (#9).

Players I hadn't seen/noticed before but caught my eye, (#80) Boyd, (#13) Q. Jackson.....both are listed as 6'3".

RB's.... Smith ((#21) and Tucker (#25...and looking pretty healthy) should fill the hole left by Ivery. Hosley (#46) looked impressive as well.

I'm looking forward to seeing how two freshmen, Stiggers (#5) and Johnson (#26.....Wilson is wearing #3 this year) adjust. Their HS highlight films were very impressive.

I'm also looking forward to seeing how Conner Means does at RB......assuming that's really where they are going to play him this fall.

 

 

 

[BTG_Fan1]

8 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

FWIW I saw a lot of hungry WR's during the spring........ some of which I had never seen before.

The most notable was Duhon (#27), Chumley (#15), Bussy (#8), Lawrence (#32) and Guyton (#9).

Players I hadn't seen/noticed before but caught my eye, (#80) Boyd, (#13) Q. Jackson.....both are listed as 6'3".

RB's.... Smith ((#21) and Tucker (#25...and looking pretty healthy) should fill the hole left by Ivery. Hosley (#46) looked impressive as well.

I'm looking forward to seeing how two freshmen, Stiggers (#5) and Johnson (#26.....Wilson is wearing #3 this year) adjust. Their HS highlight films were very impressive.

I'm also looking forward to seeing how Conner Means does at RB......assuming that's really where they are going to play him this fall.

Bussy should have a breakout, Duhon/Khan (whichever is the Southlake PWO) i think will be a kid to watch as well. Griffin should fill in for Wilson, and hopefully be more explosive and a play a critical role for us. Lawerence I view as a 2nd string WR because he had great hands from what i recall of his HS tape (not sure about the speed.) Jackson and Boyd will be interesting if they work out because that would allow us to RS White the kid from Georgia. 

I forgot about Hosley, I loved his tape with how physical he was! 

This past class I think will be determined by the OL kids, but another group that we shouldn't over look is the skill guys the likes of Siggers, Johnson, White and Darden.

Siggers was a beast in his tape. Johnson and Darden made guys miss, and White could go get the ball. 

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

Players I hadn't seen/noticed before but caught my eye, (#80) Boyd, (#13) Q. Jackson.....both are listed as 6'3".

 

Boyd intrigued me as a freshman, glad they were able to red shirt him, or specifically, his high school tape intrigued me.  The problem was that he played TAPPS and the level of competition can be spotty at best.  He has the build, so it will be interesting to see how he develops.  Jackson came in from the JUCO with the QB O'Hara.  Another big guy with a good tape.

[MGNation92]

17 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

FWIW I saw a lot of hungry WR's during the spring........ some of which I had never seen before.

The most notable was Duhon (#27), Chumley (#15), Bussy (#8), Lawrence (#32) and Guyton (#9).

Players I hadn't seen/noticed before but caught my eye, (#80) Boyd, (#13) Q. Jackson.....both are listed as 6'3".

RB's.... Smith ((#21) and Tucker (#25...and looking pretty healthy) should fill the hole left by Ivery. Hosley (#46) looked impressive as well.

I'm looking forward to seeing how two freshmen, Stiggers (#5) and Johnson (#26.....Wilson is wearing #3 this year) adjust. Their HS highlight films were very impressive.

I'm also looking forward to seeing how Conner Means does at RB......assuming that's really where they are going to play him this fall.

 

 

 

Good to have hungry WR's.

Let's just hope we can find someone to get them the ball accurately and on time

[GMG24]

15 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Boyd intrigued me as a freshman, glad they were able to red shirt him, or specifically, his high school tape intrigued me.  The problem was that he played TAPPS and the level of competition can be spotty at best.  He has the build, so it will be interesting to see how he develops.  Jackson came in from the JUCO with the QB O'Hara.  Another big guy with a good tape.

You lost ya mind my man. Tapps schools especially 5 level are damn near FCS teams, the way they can bring kids in on "scholarship". Shoot may as well call Bishop Dunne Red Oak 2.0,  Prestonwood LCS, and Nolan all pulling in plenty of talent. 

[SilverEagle]

3 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

Good to have hungry WR's.

Let's just hope we can find someone to get them the ball accurately and on time

Well, that brings us back to the discussion about the O-line and how well they've been coached/assessed during the fall camp. From my observations of spring practice, we have at least two QB's (Fine and Shanbour) who can deliver the ball whilst on the run. Pearson looked promising in that area and Isadore, because of his rehabbing,didn't get chased.

[TreeFiddy]

Was there more to Wilson's leaving other than grades?

[UNTLifer]

On 7/5/2017 at 6:15 PM, aztecskin said:

1.  
2. There is more to this story than 'he left'

 

I would assume so.

[MGNation92]

6 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

Well, that brings us back to the discussion about the O-line and how well they've been coached/assessed during the fall camp. From my observations of spring practice, we have at least two QB's (Fine and Shanbour) who can deliver the ball whilst on the run. Pearson looked promising in that area and Isadore, because of his rehabbing,didn't get chased.

I would be good if they did to Fine what A&M did with Kyler Murray. He couldn't see over the line either so every time he was on the field they would either run a read option or a bootleg. 

Cut the field in half and give him 3 options that he can actually see. Receiver 1, Receiver 2, or run. 

I think doing that for Fine would make him infinitely more effective

[Aldo]

2 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

Cut the field in half and give him 3 options that he can actually see. Receiver 1, Receiver 2, or run. 

Agree that seeing the field at times was an issue for him, as he had a Y over the middle open occasionally, but his line of sight was hampered.

Problem with this, though, is that it's not just his reaction to the receivers. Depending on the reaction of a safety, cb, or lb, the receiver has specific options. Fine has to see this as well, of course, because he has to anticipate what his receiver will do, but both have to be on the same page. For example, sometimes during a Y cross, the Y has the option to sit in between the LBs in coverage, cut in front of a dropping LB, or go behind the sitting LBs. Fine has to wait on that while peeking the other routes and identifying what those defenders are doing as well.

But like you said, running the boot makes sense, especially if you run a Flood, and they do have some read option packages that they use out of the same formation as some of their pass plays, to set the defense up for failure.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

2 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

I would be good if they did to Fine what A&M did with Kyler Murray. He couldn't see over the line either so every time he was on the field they would either run a read option or a bootleg. 

Cut the field in half and give him 3 options that he can actually see. Receiver 1, Receiver 2, or run. 

I think doing that for Fine would make him infinitely more effective

Kyler was last seen playing baseball at OU, though, so...
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=210821982
 

He's been a spring game football phenom at OU, but that's the spring game; and it hasn't stopped their coaching staff from continuing to land other highly regarded QB prospects:
2017:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2017
2018:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2018
2019:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2019

I wouldn't hold my breath expecting Murray to start many games at OU in football...and, if he can't hit better than .122 in baseball, he won't start many for the baseball team either.

 

[MGNation92]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Kyler was last seen playing baseball at OU, though, so...
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=210821982
 

He's been a spring game football phenom at OU, but that's the spring game; and it hasn't stopped their coaching staff from continuing to land other highly regarded QB prospects:
2017:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2017
2018:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2018
2019:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2019

I wouldn't hold my breath expecting Murray to start many games at OU in football...and, if he can't hit better than .122 in baseball, he won't start many for the baseball team either.

 

 I was just noting how A&M used him and suggested we should use Fine the same way. I'm not saying it's sustainable to run an entire offense like that but it would put Fine in a position where he would have better vision and limited decision making

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

On 7/7/2017 at 0:48 PM, MGNation92 said:

 I was just noting how A&M used him and suggested we should use Fine the same way. I'm not saying it's sustainable to run an entire offense like that but it would put Fine in a position where he would have better vision and limited decision making

I understand, but I don't think it solves the problem in the long run, and here is why...

...if our complaint is that the tackles can't control a pass rush very well, rolling the QB out simply puts him closer to DEs and OLBs that are already (again, we are assuming here) beating our tackles.  He is then forced to scramble, and the timing of the pattern to the roll out play is off.

For the sake of brevity, just stick me in the crowd that believes the best way to handle a QB is to have QBs who can throw from the pocket...or, as I like to say, have quarterbacks who can play quarterback.  That solves a multitude of problems. 

If you are changing your offense around all the time for one guy, then that guy gets hurt, you are stuck trying to have the team go back and learn another way in the middle of a season.  In my opinion, it is stupid to have a bunch of QBs with "different" talents.  The majority of a QB's job is to either throw or hand off.  If you are having to tweak too much for one guy, you should be rethinking your QB stable.

[BTG_Fan1]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:29 AM, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Kyler was last seen playing baseball at OU, though, so...
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=210821982
 

He's been a spring game football phenom at OU, but that's the spring game; and it hasn't stopped their coaching staff from continuing to land other highly regarded QB prospects:
2017:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2017
2018:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2018
2019:  https://oklahoma.rivals.com/commitments/football/2019

I wouldn't hold my breath expecting Murray to start many games at OU in football...and, if he can't hit better than .122 in baseball, he won't start many for the baseball team either.

Shoulda came to UNT when he was leaving AM.. woulda sat out last year and then likely started from here on out...

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

18 minutes ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Shoulda came to UNT when he was leaving AM.. woulda sat out last year and then likely started from here on out...

I'm sure he's harboring some sort of baseball fantasy, so he went to a school with a baseball program.  But, I haven't yet heard of a college player hitting .122 then going to the majors.

I think, unfortunately for this kid, he was hyped partially because of who his dad is, and cannot live up to the hype.  There's no shame in that...if, that is, the dad doesn't stoke the hype. 

Here, I think Kevin Murray is perfectly happy to have his QB tutoring business pumped up for a couple of years off his son's back.  I could be wrong.  Could be,

[GMG24]

47 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

I'm sure he's harboring some sort of baseball fantasy, so he went to a school with a baseball program.  But, I haven't yet heard of a college player hitting .122 then going to the majors.

I think, unfortunately for this kid, he was hyped partially because of who his dad is, and cannot live up to the hype.  There's no shame in that...if, that is, the dad doesn't stoke the hype. 

Here, I think Kevin Murray is perfectly happy to have his QB tutoring business pumped up for a couple of years off his son's back.  I could be wrong.  Could be,

You mean this one? 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/05/kyler-murray-opts-out-of-mlb-draft.html

Where he was slotted 32 and 34 respectively.  Gotcha.  

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Shoulda came to UNT when he was leaving AM.. woulda sat out last year and then likely started from here on out...

This is the kind of stuff that irks me. The countless number of high school phenom QB's that go major P5 program out of high school and then fizzle out in college because of depth. Murray, and maybe 100  others over just the last 4 or 5 years,  could have been a major contributor at UNT...A UNT HoF kind of player. There is 0 doubt in my mind that Kyler Murray would put this current offense and team in the CUSA championship game THIS year. Do not underestimate the significance of a playmaker at the QB position...It's a real game changer. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Ben Gooding

[NT93]

5 hours ago, GMG24 said:

You mean this one? 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/05/kyler-murray-opts-out-of-mlb-draft.html

Where he was slotted 32 and 34 respectively.  Gotcha.  

He probably should have gone pro out of HS.  I doubt his showing at OU has helped his draft stock...and I feel strongly that his future is NOT in football.

[BTG_Fan1]

5 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

This is the kind of stuff that irks me. The countless number of high school phenom QB's that go major P5 program out of high school and then fizzle out in college because of depth. Murray, and maybe 100  others over just the last 4 or 5 years,  could have been a major contributor at UNT...A UNT HoF kind of player. There is 0 doubt in my mind that Kyler Murray would put this current offense and team in the CUSA championship game THIS year. Do not underestimate the significance of a playmaker at the QB position...It's a real game changer. 

QBs wanna go to big name programs because of name of the program, kids now discount playing for 3 or 4 years and then going pro.. 

Also, these kids have been told from a young age that they are the best and most of them never run into someone as talented as them. They all think that they will come in and play because the kid before them isn't as talented or the kid after them won't catch or pass them in terms of development.

It also doesn't hurt to have the shiny new toys like Texas AM does... 

[GMG24]

30 minutes ago, NT93 said:

He probably should have gone pro out of HS.  I doubt his showing at OU has helped his draft stock...and I feel strongly that his future is NOT in football.

0 doubt about that. However he loved the game of football. That hurt him..

[BTG_Fan1]

5 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

0 doubt about that. However he loved the game of football. That hurt him..

Can't doubt the kid about that.. but just saying... MLB contracts are basically fully guaranteed, shoulda traded it at pro ball and if not walk away and go play football like Brandon Weeden lol

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

6 hours ago, GMG24 said:

You mean this one? 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/05/kyler-murray-opts-out-of-mlb-draft.html

Where he was slotted 32 and 34 respectively.  Gotcha.  

A 2015 guess doesn't mean anything in 2017.  Especially after everyone has now seen that he can't hit college pitching.

He got crappy advice coming out of high school, and probably most of it from his dad.  

You take baseball money out of high school, if you can get it.  Then, if it turns out you can't hit A-ball pitchers after two or three years, you go back and play college football.  

You can't do it the other way around due to NCAA rules.  And, you're not getting a second chance at pro ball if you can't even hit college pitching.

Sh*t...sometimes even the kids with parents from decent suburban areas get misled.