Here Is What Recruiting Success Would Look Like

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Getting a commitment from a kid we've offered like Davis Brin:  http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Davis-Brin-94497/RecruitInterests

Why?

(1) Brin has multiple offers from FBS with some FCS mixed in, but the majority of the offers are from FBS schools.  What that says is during camps and on film, several FBS coaches see similarities in him and FBS QBs they've coached before and know can succeed at the FBS level.

(2) Two of the FBS offers are from San Diego State and Tulsa.  Why does that matter?  Well, Tulsa is coached by former Baylor OC/QB coach Philip Montgomery, whose Golden Hurricane squad just set is shit ton of records last season with their version of the spread.  If Montgomery thinks this kid is worth a scholarship, he's worth a scholarship.

Ditto with the San Diego State offer.  Aztec head coach Rocky Long has been successful at New Mexico and now San Diego State, neither of which are consider traditional powers.  He took New Mexico to five bowl games in 10 seasons there, all five in his last seven seasons.  He's guided San Diego State to bowl games in all six seasons he's been there.  The Aztecs have won 11 games each of the past two season, rare territory for that program.

(During last year's bowl game, they spotted our beloved Houston Cougars a 10-0 lead in the first quarter before waxing them 34-0 in the remaining three quarters.  By the way...while on the topic...did anyone see where Houston QB Greg Ward, Jr. was drafted?  Oh...he wasn't drafted?  Never mind.)

Rocky has been a head coach at G5-level programs since 1998.  Before that, he was defensive coordinator at then Pac-10 schools UCLA and Oregon State.  In short, if anyone knows G5-level talent, it's Rocky Long.

So, if Littrell beats Philip Montgomery and Rocky Long for a recruit both have offered, that would say something.

And, that is simply the crux of the matter at all positions for all recruits.  Coaches see the kids at camps.  They see them on film.  They know who probably will and will not pan out in the FBS, whether P5 or G5.  

You simply can't pooh-pooh the successes of guys like Montgomery and Long.  If they've offered, it means something.  So, if Littrell beats them, it will mean something.  

And, by the same measure, it only makes sense that it also means something if the only schools we are beating are FCS and Division II.

I'll hold to this belief because of how public recruiting is in the second decade of the 21st century with game film and camps everywhere - very, very few truly "slip through the cracks."  And, so, you can't just build a roster on "slip through the crack" guys.  You have to start winning some real head-to-head battles with guys like Philip Montgomery and Rocky Long.  

I know that sound like a tall order, but...no one is resting on their laurels in college football.  As a coaching staff, you have to compete with other coaching staffs 365 days a year.  The wins and losses during the season are in direct correlation to the wins and losses during the off-season. 

I love you all.  Dearly.  And, also, those RX Energy Herbal Tonics that Arizona tea makes.
 

Brin's twitter:  https://twitter.com/davisbrin?lang=en

Edited June 27, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[GMG24]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Getting a commitment from a kid we've offered like Davis Brin:  http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Davis-Brin-94497/RecruitInterests

Why?

(1) Brin has multiple offers from FBS with some FCS mixed in, but the majority of the offers are from FBS schools.  What that says is during camps and on film, several FBS coaches see similarities in him and FBS QBs they've coached before and know can succeed at the FBS level.

(2) Two of the FBS offers are from San Diego State and Tulsa.  Why does that matter?  Well, Tulsa is coached by former Baylor OC/QB coach Philip Montgomery, whose Golden Hurricane squad just set is shit ton of records last season with their version of the spread.  If Montgomery thinks this kid is worth a scholarship, he's worth a scholarship.

Ditto with the San Diego State offer.  Aztec head coach Rocky Long has been successful at New Mexico and now San Diego State, neither of which are consider traditional powers.  He took New Mexico to five bowl games in 10 seasons there, all five in his last seven seasons.  He's guided San Diego State to bowl games in all six seasons he's been there.  The Aztecs have won 11 games each of the past two season, rare territory for that program.

(During last year's bowl game, they spotted our beloved Houston Cougars a 10-0 lead in the first quarter before waxing them 34-0 in the remaining three quarters.  By the way...while on the topic...did anyone see where Houston QB Greg Ward, Jr. was drafted?  Oh...he wasn't drafted?  Never mind.)

Rocky has been a head coach at G5-level programs since 1998.  Before that, he was defensive coordinator at then Pac-10 schools UCLA and Oregon State.  In short, if anyone knows G5-level talent, it's Rocky Long.

So, if Littrell beats Philip Montgomery and Rocky Long for a recruit both have offered, that would say something.

And, that is simply the crux of the matter at all positions for all recruits.  Coaches see the kids at camps.  They see them on film.  They know who probably will and will not pan out in the FBS, whether P5 or G5.  

You simply can't pooh-pooh the successes of guys like Montgomery and Long.  If they've offered, it means something.  So, if Littrell beats them, it will mean something.  

And, by the same measure, it only makes sense that it also means something if the only schools we are beating are FCS and Division II.

I'll hold to this belief because of how public recruiting is in the second decade of the 21st century with game film and camps everywhere - very, very few truly "slip through the cracks."  And, so, you can't just build a roster on "slip through the crack" guys.  You have to start winning some real head-to-head battles with guys like Philip Montgomery and Rocky Long.  

I know that sound like a tall order, but...no one is resting on their laurels in college football.  As a coaching staff, you have to compete with other coaching staffs 365 days a year.  The wins and losses during the season are in direct correlation to the wins and losses during the off-season. 

I love you all.  Dearly.  And, also, those RX Energy Herbal Tonics that Arizona tea makes.
 

Brin's twitter:  https://twitter.com/davisbrin?lang=en

So if Montgomery thinks a kids D1 he is but if Littrell does then he has to be validated by other coaches? If things follow as they have pretty consistently through Littrell's tenure so far other schools have waited until later and gone after our kids.  See Houston last year at the end of the cycle

[97and03]

TL;DR

[TreeFiddy]

[Wag Tag]

You bring up some good points but what I look at is more the schools we should beat. We should beat all FCS, Sun Belt schools. We should win the majority battles against the MWC for local kids. We should win at least 1/2 the battles with our conference rival and we should be able to sign kids at least 1/3 of the time against the AAC.

I want to see a top 4 in C-USA and in the 80's nationally. GMG

[forevereagle]

I am thrilled that we are about to have the same discussion re-framed as if there is something new to say.

[Ben Gooding]

43 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

So if Montgomery thinks a kids D1 he is but if Littrell does then he has to be validated by other coaches? If things follow as they have pretty consistently through Littrell's tenure so far other schools have waited until later and gone after our kids.  See Houston last year at the end of the cycle

Hmm...sort of. Litrell isn't known for his recruiting savvy. He's taken players that other assistants recruited  (assuming, of course) and put points on the board at P5 schools. And his stops along the way...Arizona, Indiana, and UNC have, or in Indiana's case had, damn good offensive minds as the HC. Not saying SL didn't have a direct hand in those schools' offensive production while he was there, but those head coaches were there for a reason (Hint: Scoring points is the reason). 

PM and RL at their respective schools have the track record of success, and therefore have a firmer platform to stand on as far as recruiting at THIS level. 

46 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

You bring up some good points but what I look at is more the schools we should beat. We should beat all FCS, Sun Belt schools. We should win the majority battles against the MWC for local kids. We should win at least 1/2 the battles with our conference rival and we should be able to sign kids at least 1/3 of the time against the AAC.

I want to see a top 4 in C-USA and in the 80's nationally. GMG

We should beat the schools you listed. But we should also beat SDSU for local or semi local kids. Or at least not be written off their list when a SDSU offer is handed down. As for Tulsa, they're getting better and much like smug, they have that privy private education they can over hype to parents. They are also much closer to Texas. So I can see why fending them off is a little more difficult as compared to say SDSU. 

[MeanGreenDadx2]

18 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

We should beat the schools you listed. But we should also beat SDSU for local or semi local kids. Or at least not be written off their list when a SDSU offer is handed down. As for Tulsa, they're getting better and much like smug, they have that privy private education they can over hype to parents. They are also much closer to Texas. So I can see why fending them off is a little more difficult as compared to say SDSU. 

Convince me that "We should beat the schools you listed."  Why should North Texas win those recruiting battles, you imply that should be easy if the coaching staff were not inept.  Let's assume the coaching staff is equal to other schools staff, tell me why we win the recruiting battles.

[Ben Gooding]

27 minutes ago, MeanGreenDadx2 said:

Convince me that "We should beat the schools you listed."  Why should North Texas win those recruiting battles, you imply that should be easy if the coaching staff were not inept.  Let's assume the coaching staff is equal to other schools staff, tell me why we win the recruiting battles.

"The schools" in my sentence and your quote was in reference to FCS and FunBelt programs. I'm going to assume you thought otherwise. 

[GreenMachine]

1 hour ago, forevereagle said:

I am thrilled that we are about to have the same discussion re-framed as if there is something new to say.

Get ready for the same complaining from the same culprit with absolutely zero added from the previous 20+ recruiting threads.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

57 minutes ago, MeanGreenDadx2 said:

Convince me that "We should beat the schools you listed."  Why should North Texas win those recruiting battles, you imply that should be easy if the coaching staff were not inept.  Let's assume the coaching staff is equal to other schools staff, tell me why we win the recruiting battles.

This is where the coach will either earn or not earn his $1 million (yes, he'll get the $1 million one way or the other; whether it's well earned or not, I should say).

Right now, assuming Littrell's staff were equal to Montgomery's and Long's, the only selling point I can see is distance to home.  Tulsa and San Diego State are both farther.

We have a nicer stadium than Tulsa.  The Aztecs play at, but do not sell out Qualcomm, a pro football stadium.  Hard to say Apogee is better.  However, if ever sold out, I'd bet the atmosphere is better than a half empty Qualcomm.

It's a tall order, of course.  Currently, we shouldn't beat either school, as he said we should, unless both were as down as we are - or, we were as up as they both are.  As stated, though, if we did win a recruit like Brin, that would make a statement. 

But, look...that's what they are paying Seth Littrell and his coaches to do.  If they are not paying him to win recruiting battles against successful G5 schools, then why are they paying him at all?  To outrecruit SFA and Texas State?  Seriously?  If so, cut his salary in half and give the money to a more competitive program within the athletic department.

This is what San Diego State did this week - picked up a four star recruit who had many P5 offers:  http://www.scout.com/player/209785-j-r-justice/recruiting?year=2017&s=73

Again, no one is standing still.  Littrell and staff are paid to recruit better than they currently are.  We've paid them more than any other coaching staff we ever have.  He's got better facilities than any other coaching staff.  He's got an IPF coming.  We just completed a season where we went to a bowl game.  This is the third class he will sign.  He's been at bigger schools.  He should know recruiting down doesn't lift you up in the long run.   

The recruiting is on the coaching staff.  We've spent many years making excuses.  We are now paying enough to lay the excuses aside and expect results. 

[greenminer]

3 hours ago, forevereagle said:

I am thrilled that we are about to have the same discussion re-framed as if there is something new to say.

1 more of these threads and everyone will be convinced.  I promise.

[untjim1995]

I'd just be glad to start beating out Belt teams and fellow CUSA teams more frequently...

I don't know really how to do that, but I think it would be a darn good start to improve things here. I do think that accepting transfers here, like JJ did in hoops, will help, if it produces a winner around here. Because, realistically, that seems to me, like its SL's only shot at this point, besides just plain ol' coaching up of the players he has into his system.

[UNTLifer]

9 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

 

PM and RL at their respective schools have the track record of success, and therefore have a firmer platform to stand on as far as recruiting at THIS level. 

Phillip Montgomery has 2 seasons under his belt at Tulsa, coached under a great offensive mind ayt Baylor and has a tendency to offer players after we do.  Not sure how that qualifies him as having a track record of success, he is 16-10 at Tulsa, nor how he has a firmer platform to stand on as far as recruiting at THIS level.  Long, on the other hand, has been a HC for much longer and has been successful in the MWC.

[MeanGreenZen]

Why don't we just get commitments from all the best players that Nick Saban is recruiting?

[Ben Gooding]

7 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Phillip Montgomery has 2 seasons under his belt at Tulsa, coached under a great offensive mind ayt Baylor and has a tendency to offer players after we do.  Not sure how that qualifies him as having a track record of success, he is 16-10 at Tulsa, nor how he has a firmer platform to stand on as far as recruiting at THIS level.  Long, on the other hand, has been a HC for much longer and has been successful in the MWC.

He won 10 games last year and obliterated records. 

When Seth Littrell has a 3k yard passer, two 1k yard receivers, and two 1k yard running backs all in the same season then you can try to put him on an equal coaching level as PM. Until then, you're arguing for the sake of argument. 

 

[AustinFromUNT]

@MeanGreenMailbox Would you call it a recruiting success if we land QB Jason Bean from Mansfield? Offered by UNT, SMU, Liberty, LA Tech, and Colorado state?

[UNTLifer]

27 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

He won 10 games last year and obliterated records. 

When Seth Littrell has a 3k yard passer, two 1k yard receivers, and two 1k yard running backs all in the same season then you can try to put him on an equal coaching level as PM. Until then, you're arguing for the sake of argument. 

 

Yes, and Littrell coached the same as an assistant at his various stops along the way to UNT.  Comparing coaches based on the success of some of their players is ridiculous.  For instance, Don Coryell had players with fantastic numbers, Fouts, Muncy, Chandler, etc..., in the NFL.  Did that make him a better coach than Landry or Noll?  In colleges, Leach has players with crazy production.  Does that make him better than Saban?  I am not arguing for the sake of it but underlining the fallacies in your point.

[untjim1995]

2 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

@MeanGreenMailbox Would you call it a recruiting success if we land QB Jason Bean from Mansfield? Offered by UNT, SMU, Liberty, LA Tech, and Colorado state?

I would...that would be a great set of teams to beat for a recruit. All but Liberty are higher up the college football totem pole than us.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

3 hours ago, AustinFromUNT said:

@MeanGreenMailbox Would you call it a recruiting success if we land QB Jason Bean from Mansfield? Offered by UNT, SMU, Liberty, LA Tech, and Colorado state?

Yes.  Louisiana Tech and Colorado State are schools that are now regular bowl participants.  In particular, Colorado State, though.  They've hired two coaches in a row who were SEC offensive coordinators - Jim McElwain from Alabama and Mike Bobo from Georgia. 

Those guys know what college QBs look like.  If they have offered the kid, he's legitimate.  If Littrell beats them, that's as good as beating Rocky Long and Philip Montgomery.  

Skip Holtz is a fine football coach as well at Louisiana Tech.  He's the first coach to lead the Bulldogs to three consecutive bowl games, and he's won them all.  La Tech has five total bowl wins in their history - Holtz has three of them.  He knows what it takes to consistently find players that are ready to play G5-level football.  Beating him on a recruit like Jason Bean would mean a great deal towards proving we are moving in the right direction.

Where are you seeing he's been offered by La Tech and Colorado State, though?  The sites I have show that he's only been offered by us and SMU.

Edited June 28, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

11 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Phillip Montgomery has 2 seasons under his belt at Tulsa, coached under a great offensive mind ayt Baylor and has a tendency to offer players after we do.  Not sure how that qualifies him as having a track record of success, he is 16-10 at Tulsa, nor how he has a firmer platform to stand on as far as recruiting at THIS level.  Long, on the other hand, has been a HC for much longer and has been successful in the MWC.

Philip Montgomery's success goes beyond two years at Tulsa.  He was with Art Briles as QB coach and OC at both Houston and Baylor.  Both of those programs did well offensively while he was training QBs and calling plays. 

He's proves he wasn't just Briles' puppet by taking a Tulsa squad which had been losing and turning them into a record-setting scoring machine within two years.

Let that last part sink in.  Tulsa was 3-9 and 2-10 the two years directly before Montgomery arrived.  He took them to a bowl game his first year, then led them to a 10-win season last year.  He didn't wait to get his own recruits.  He used what was there.  There were no excuses.

If he goes bowling again this year, he will be gone, as we've discussed here before.  If he goes, and Littrell wins here, it is conceivable that TU comes after Littrell, with his hometown Muskogee being less than an hour away from the TU campus.  His wife's family as well. 

I expect regional dominoes to fall in November and December after Hairgel Hands misleads Texas Tech again and is fired.  Montgomery would be the perfect replacement for him inasmush as he runs the spread and has been a successful Big 12 assistant. 

I'd say it's a no-brainer...but, we are talking Texas Tech here.  They were dumb enough to give Hairgel Hands a fat contract.  They might not be able to figure out that hiring Montgomery would make them Big 12 title contenders.  The dust on the plains wreaks havoc on the brains.

[BTG_Fan1]

40 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Yes.  Louisiana Tech and Colorado State are schools that are now regular bowl participants.  In particular, Colorado State, though.  They've hired two coaches in a row who were SEC offensive coordinators - Jim McElwain from Alabama and Mike Bobo from Georgia. 

Those guys know what college QBs look like.  If they have offered the kid, he's legitimate.  If Littrell beats them, that's as good as beating Rocky Long and Philip Montgomery.  

Skip Holtz is a fine football coach as well at Louisiana Tech.  He's the first coach to lead the Bulldogs to three consecutive bowl games, and he's won them all.  La Tech has five total bowl wins in their history - Holtz has three of them.  He knows what it takes to consistently find players that are ready to play G5-level football.  Beating him on a recruit like Jason Bean would mean a great deal towards proving we are moving in the right direction.

Where are you seeing he's been offered by La Tech and Colorado State, though?  The sites I have show that he's only been offered by us and SMU.

His twitter account

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

? Rams
http://coloradostate.247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/Offers
http://www.scout.com/college/colorado-state/2018-football-prospects?minimumInterest=Low&sortBy=LastName

? Bulldogs
http://www.scout.com/college/louisiana-tech/2018-football-prospects?minimumInterest=Low&sortBy=LastName
http://latech.247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/Offers

?
http://www.scout.com/player/209488-jason-bean/recruiting

 

[AustinFromUNT]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Yes.  Louisiana Tech and Colorado State are schools that are now regular bowl participants.  In particular, Colorado State, though.  They've hired two coaches in a row who were SEC offensive coordinators - Jim McElwain from Alabama and Mike Bobo from Georgia. 

Those guys know what college QBs look like.  If they have offered the kid, he's legitimate.  If Littrell beats them, that's as good as beating Rocky Long and Philip Montgomery.  

Skip Holtz is a fine football coach as well at Louisiana Tech.  He's the first coach to lead the Bulldogs to three consecutive bowl games, and he's won them all.  La Tech has five total bowl wins in their history - Holtz has three of them.  He knows what it takes to consistently find players that are ready to play G5-level football.  Beating him on a recruit like Jason Bean would mean a great deal towards proving we are moving in the right direction.

Where are you seeing he's been offered by La Tech and Colorado State, though?  The sites I have show that he's only been offered by us and SMU.

And these are fairly recent offers (May)

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Yes, I saw those.  However, Scout listed his June 7th offer from SMU, but none other.  No other site lists Colorado State or Louisiana Tech offers, which seem to come before the SMU offer.  Were the offers pulled?   Why would sites hide or not report offers?

Anyone with insight re: how the sites work?  Do they simply take tweets, or do they also follow up with the schools to make sure kids aren't just pumping themselves up to gain interest of other schools?