DRC: A look at where UNT stands in football recruiting as the dead period begins

BTG_Fan1 · June 27, 2017

5 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Excuses, excuses, excuses on top of excuses. You are absolutely right no one should expect NT to compete with anybody for recruits.

Hey if you can call it excuses but there are reasons why kids aren't coming here, and why they have not come here for a long time... Coaches change and the results stay the same...

As a High School to college student, you would have had dreams of possibly playing in the pros and would have gone to the place with the news toys and the most bells and whistles, UNT doesn't have any of that and they have not had it in a over 5 years to sway kids to come here... The losing has not stopped because we coaches that were in over there head (Dodge), and coaches that would not adapt to the new football scheme here in TX (Mac). We haven't produced nor given the players the tools needed to grow either (RV). This entire program has been mis-managed and screwed. This is not a simple fix. Finding kids that will be here long-term with the ability to change the mindset here at UNT is needed. Finding kids that are quality students and quality athletes isn't easy with the problems that have faced this program and they have taken risks and got burn by them in Hoston, Haynes, and Johnson which could be blamed for them taken kids who would be here but don't have the sexiest offer lists. This staff is doing it the right way and the complaining about the offer lists is the dumbest thing because they can not control who they like/ and who else likes the kids.

Offer lists are cool, but we have plenty of kids with solid offer lists that amount to 0, and kids with 0 other offers that are great players.

southsideguy · June 27, 2017

We might be number one in one thing, the most negative fan base. You know recruits most likely check out the web site and the negativity is not helpful. One subject line we are afraid of losing SL and the other subject line he the worse recruiter ever. Yes, history is not in our favor but we need to keep the faith. I know everyone on here, with one exception, is a die hard fan and would not be on here otherwise. I bleed green and will continue to do it win or lose. We have one thing a lot of the big schools don't, a chance to start. I am amazed how many good players sit on the bench at the big schools. I guess they all think they are good enough to be a starter? Most could start here and Denton is a great college town. I do agree with all the JUCO players, I wish we had four year players on the team.

I saw the statement that UNT is a fall back school for high school students. UNT well NTSU was my first choice of schools and I am glad I made it. We should do a poll if UNT was the first choice or the fall back choice. If that statement is true that explains the lack of fan support. I don't know if it is still as bad at UNT. I remember back in the day come Friday many of the students went home. Unfortunate for them because I had a blast in Denton and have made it my retirement city. Traffic sucks but I still enjoy the city and UNT. I think UNT is on the right path and we need to support our teams and students.

Yes I know we have problems but there is no problem that can't be overcome. Look at Baylor, through all the bad news they still are able to recruit and play games. I personally think they should have had to shut down the football program for a year the least. The school has a history of problems starting with Dave Bliss.

wardly · June 27, 2017

At least this looks like a step forward, although Rice at #1 has rating twice that of UNT at #6. My problem is when we offer to a linebacker who has received no other offers period .What makes us so smart and everyone else so dumb? We just have a long way to go in selling our program to Texas high school coaches. Didn't we hire someone to promote UNT athletics to them?

MeanGreenSig · June 27, 2017

11 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

We are currently 6th which is in the top half, which the same people who have bashed this staff about just getting into the top half.

They are doing this with worse than High School facilities, a team that has what? Like 5 or 6 winning seasons in over 2 decades, with a roster that has not produced 1 drafted player either and NSD isn't anytime soon.

You want to compare these guys to other coaches in the conference and half of these coaches are brand new, and haven't even gotten 1 class yet. You are comparing them on something that is incomplete...

Dear lord, Ben.... Would you go to a school that is known for losing? that has worse facilities than your own high school? or would you go to a place that has put a whooping 4 UDFAs into the NFL in the last 5 or 6 years? If you think you have a better pitch, then type it up or put it into Powerpoint and email it to the staff and Wren. Heck even post it up on here and sale all of us on a school that is known for losing, liberal arts over athletics, and hasn't much success in terms of getting kids to their dreams of playing in the NFL. Sale us on the vision, please because apparently you know way more than these career coaches do.

A coaches name maybe sexy like GH, but kids look at results. GH did not call the plays in WSU, and he was a QB Coaches for 1 or 2 years and before that he was an outside wrs coach. It has already been brought up that they have changed the views of some of the HS staffs in the state, but it will take alot more than just words. People want to see results. This offense was not built for passing last year, nor has been in the past. Our returning leading WR had a total of something along the lines of 33 catches and 350+ yards.. That isn't going to draw in recruits or WRs.

Again, we can not fault the coaches for Gage reopening his recruiting because its the choice of the player. Gage already commited twice to us and hadn't picked up any offers as of 2 or 3 weeks ago. We had already beaten Colorado and some other solid offers, and during his commitment he had picked up something along the lines of Kent State and Ohio (schools that are not as sexy as the schools before us).

This whole bashing the staff for them not being able to recruit crap is dumb, they pulled in alot of solid pick ups in the 1st class(Fine, Rico, Wilson, Jenks, Wheeler, Dee, Hood,Morris, Heck even English), and this 2nd class they as well added some talented kids in Siggers, White, Darden, Johnson, Guyton (who had multiple P5 offers but no rejoiced at this signing or praised the staff for that). We are bashing a staff that lost 3 coaches to P5s and another to a G5, and that turned a 1-11 team that got destroyed by Portland State for possibly the worst L in the history of D1 NCAA Football into a Bowl team.

Its the losing record for years, the lack of facilities, lack of investment into staff (forward recruiting, graphics, etc), lack of production in terms of getting kids to the pros.

Having to fight an uphill battle with the history of UNT that parents, and coaches know, and that kids can look up. Also, UNT being viewed as the fall-back option for HS kids as well.

Worse than high school facilities, I disagree. Have you seen La Techs facilities and campus? They have no problem getting quality, but they do win and seem to field a good team year after year going way back.

Ben Gooding · June 27, 2017

24 minutes ago, MeanGreenSig said:

Worse than high school facilities, I disagree. Have you seen La Techs facilities and campus? They have no problem getting quality, but they do win and seem to field a good team year after year going way back.

He keeps bringing up facilities as if it's a deflector of talent. I don't think he has been to another CUSA campus/stadium. We are in very decent shape on this front. Granted we do need a face lift to the weight room and locker room. And these aren't dated or ugly, they were never spatted out on the initial design.

Aldo · June 27, 2017

*chokes on popcorn and dies*

UNTLifer · June 27, 2017

Our facilities are fine. I will jump on @SilverEagle's bandwagon and blame culture. Our overall culture for ever and a day needs to be changed. I think we are on the right track, but winning, continued support of the administration, treating this like a real program, etc... will move the ball in the right direction.

Ben Gooding · June 27, 2017

2 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Our facilities are fine. I will jump on @SilverEagle's bandwagon and blame culture. Our overall culture for ever and a day needs to be changed. I think we are on the right track, but winning, continued support of the administration, treating this like a real program, etc... will move the ball in the right direction.

Yes. We lose too much. We were managed by an awful manager of athletics for far too many years. The BOR kind of turned a blind eye to athletics for too many years. These are our big issues, and losing is the biggest issue and the issue that if resolved can turn us around the quickest. That is why I'm always harping on recruiting. I'm not trying to be a dick when I do it, but I know for each poor class we sign it delays our turnaround for that much longer. WMU, SDSU, Boise, UH, LaTech, etc. turned themselves around and/or sustain success due to well above average recruiting classes over consecutive years. We need to follow this format to do the same. We can do what we're currently doing and create success, sure. But it's usually success that is not prolonged. It's usually due to actually signing some hidden gems that are surrounded by experienced upper classmen. But even then, that's a 1 year outlier that disappears after the upperclassmen graduate. And teams like this have an 8 or 9 win ceiling. Sustainability is not likely and to really improve our perception, we must sustain.

MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF · June 27, 2017

2 hours ago, wardly said:

At least this looks like a step forward, although Rice at #1 has rating twice that of UNT at #6. My problem is when we offer to a linebacker who has received no other offers period .What makes us so smart and everyone else so dumb? We just have a long way to go in selling our program to Texas high school coaches. Didn't we hire someone to promote UNT athletics to them?

This is where I am, as an alumni going into my 28th season following the program. High school coaches have seen the post-1995 UNT football movie over and over again. Only consistent winning will convince them.

We've tried every other type of coach:
-Coordinator from another school: Dickey and Littrell
-High school coach: Dodge
-Former head coach who built a loser into a bowl contender: McCarney

This has been discussed in the past: it is the head coach's job to sell the school - to everyone! Alumni, casual local fans, strangers, supporters...and, yes, high school coaches and their players.

We've talked about how Littrell isn't a rah-rah guy. Okay, well, he still has to sell. McCarney was a rah-rah guy, and he didn't get enough FBS-types in here.

At the end of the day, what works is winning consistently. But because we don't exist in a vacuum, you do have to be realistic when you see what we are getting and realize that it's simply not different than what we got in the past.

Sadly, it's as though the bowl game gave us zero advantage in recruiting. None.

SilverEagle · June 28, 2017

18 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Our facilities are fine. I will jump on @SilverEagle's bandwagon and blame culture. Our overall culture for ever and a day needs to be changed. I think we are on the right track, but winning, continued support of the administration, treating this like a real program, etc... will move the ball in the right direction.

Changing the culture is like fighting fire ants in your neighborhood. EVERYONE has to be doing it at the same time. Your can't put it all on one household (in this case, the team and coaches).

Yes, winning will go a long way to changing things, because it gets everyone's attention. But once that happens, and people start coming out (if for no other reason than just curiosity) then what they need to see, and feel a part of, is a real college football experience. Being engaged by the program, and being made to feel like you are an integral part of the event, is what keeps people coming back. Not free (or cheap) tickets and/or cheap refreshments.

We can't keep having the various parts of the event show up, do their own thing (minimally), and then go their separate ways after the game is over. As a result of doing that for decades, we don't look like a big time program and, we don't act like a big time program.

That's not culture.......that's the lack of culture.

I fully believe that that is one of the main reasons we have trouble recruiting. Who the hell wants to be part of such a dysfunctional system?

And you can't start winning on a regular basis, unless you can recruit.

Edited June 28, 2017 by SilverEagle

untjim1995 · June 28, 2017

On 6/26/2017 at 10:34 PM, Ben Gooding said:

I'm sorry, but you are out of your damn mind. There are programs littered throughout this country with dog shit facilities and horrid geographical locations. Yet, they out recruit UNT on the overall national ranking, 1-128. But, keep making your absolute baseless, and now turning into loony excuses.

So why do these schools keep out-recruiting us?

6 hours ago, SilverEagle said:

Changing the culture is like fighting fire ants in your neighborhood. EVERYONE has to be doing it at the same time. Your can't put it all on one household (in this case, the team and coaches).

Yes, winning will go a long way to changing things, because it gets everyone's attention. But once that happens, and people start coming out (if for no other reason than just curiosity) then what they need to see, and feel a part of, is a real college football experience. Being engaged by the program, and being made to feel like you are an integral part of the event, is what keeps people coming back. Not free (or cheap) tickets and/or cheap refreshments.

We can't keep having the various parts of the event show up, do their own thing (minimally), and then go their separate ways after the game is over. As a result of doing that for decades, we don't look like a big time program and, we don't act like a big time program.

That's not culture.......that's the lack of culture.

I fully believe that that is one of the main reasons we have trouble recruiting. Who the hell wants to be part of such a dysfunctional system?

And you can't start winning on a regular basis, unless you can recruit.

This is why we fail at recruiting--we have got to be the easiest school to recruit against...

i always remember when Dan McCarney was here in 2015 and the coach at a high school in Frisco talked to me about him. He said high school coaches loved him because he was positive and relatable. But he had two problems that were too difficult to sell recruits--his offense was a complete outdated mismatch for most kids in Texas and the UNT reputation was like carrying kryptonite around your neck. And that was a pretty successful coach in Frisco who has seen several kids go to FBS programs lately.

UNTLifer · June 28, 2017

4 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

So why do these schools keep out-recruiting us?

But he had two problems that were too difficult to sell recruits--his offense was a complete outdated mismatch for most kids in Texas and the UNT reputation was like carrying kryptonite around your neck. And that was a pretty successful coach in Frisco who has seen several kids go to FBS programs lately.

And this is why I take the stance that we have to be patient with Littrell and staff. Hanging 100 years of reputation around the neck of a coach that just finished his first year is asinine. Commit to changing the culture, commit to this offense and win.

untjim1995 · June 28, 2017

40 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

And this is why I take the stance that we have to be patient with Littrell and staff. Hanging 100 years of reputation around the neck of a coach that just finished his first year is asinine. Commit to changing the culture, commit to this offense and win.

Completely agree. He deserved the patience. Johnny Jones had the same issue at first, but he built up a winner and started getting really good TX HS talent. That's my hope for Seth Littrell.